|
|
|
|
I recently got into an argument with a friend about labels (gay/bi/straight, etc). He believes i'm a hypocrite for saying i'm gay, yet i would not mind having sex with a woman, provided there was some attraction and i genuinely had feelings for her. I was telling him about a girl i knew couple years ago. She was unique and we shared a bond like no other. She has been the only girl i ever wanted to take things further with. However, nothing ever happened. We parted and went seperate ways. Now a days, i am in a relationship with a guy.
He says he is gay, born gay, only wants guys, no exceptions! He says i'm confusing love and sexual desire. His example was that he also has a friend he loves dearly, but would never imagin being intimate with her. He also says i should either say i'm bi or not label myself at all. He believes i'm contradicting myself by saying i'm gay and also would not mind sex with a woman.
To me, sex is fluid. I do whatever feels good. As long as i have desire and love for that person, genitalia is not a factor for me. I also told him i didn't like labels. I feel like Macky...gay/bi/straight doesn't really define who i am. I told him the only reason i put a label on network websites is to let people know what type of lifestyle my current situation describes. It doesn't mean i'm restricting myself to a gay lifestyle. Somehow, he can't accept how all of this can be possible. I'm just a hypocrite for even saying i'm gay.
I was glad when i started reading some of the responses in the "Old gay guys together" thread. Some of you guys (the marry ones) would understand how any of this can be possible. My friend doesn't.
You don't love someone because they are beautiful, they are beautiful because you love them.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
timmy
|
 |
Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13752
|
|
|
"Label persecution" has always been common.
The thing is that we know precisely who we are and what we are. We know is we are gay, bisexual, straight or any of the many other shades of sexuality.
As a philosophical discussion "Are you sure you aren't bisexual?" this is fine. But as a dogmatic statement "You are bisexual" this is not.
I know very clearly that I am homosexual, though it took me many years to say so. I'm not proud nor ashamed of it. It's just a fact. "Out and proud" is not me. Just increasingly out.
When I was younger sex was a matter of friction. The body responds well to erotic friction. It didn't mater that it was with girls. Any touch got me hard. I could get hard if a door opened! But the sex has never been what I hoped for when with a girl. My body was engaged and, to an extent, my mind, but never my whole mind.
But I did fall in love with a girl, and I've been married to her almost 30 years. We've lived together for 30 years. Mostly we're friends, too.
I've no real idea if the friction side still works. I do, vaguely, remember that last time we had some sort of sex. I don't remember the time before that. Not my choice. That has been enforced on me. Women seem to prefer an slice of cake and a sit down.
[Updated on: Wed, 25 March 2009 11:41]
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
How right, M! I spend time on the LGBT section of Yahoo answers telling people not to label themselves and not to worry about labels.
When I was a volunteer at the local aids charity I was accused of being a traitor to the cause of gayness because, although when they pushed me to say "I'm gay" I would cheerfully do that, yet I was married and faithful (and wouldn't get emotionally or physically involved with them).
Sylvia says I must be bi - but I never seek out heterosexual porn. I also feel less engaged in heterosexual love stories even though I recognise that the emotions involved are exactly the same. I feel an outsider.
I've just been to a gaudy (a celebration dinner) at my old college. There were about eighty of us who started at Oriel in 1954, 1955 or 1956 so most of them I hadn't seen to remember for over fifty years! I amused myself by asking some of them whether they knew I was gay. I got negative answers which I was a bit surprised about. But the guy I shared tutorials with told me that his best friend at Oriel was Ian Lyon and I told him Ian was gay and died of aids and he was very surprised. He hadn't known.
I also caused a minor sensation by turning up in my usual running tights instead of trousers. The dinner itself was 'black tie' (of course!). One deterioration I regretted was that only two of us refused to go to chapel before dinner. On previous occasions there have been more and I've had the company of one or two enlightened dons to talk to while we waited for them (champagne in hand).
So quite a lot more of my contemporaries now know that I say I am gay. Oh! and I found that another friend is five years into a civil partnership! Good for him!
Love,
Anthony
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Last time I looked at the assorted surveys, something over a third of the guys who self-identify as "gay" had had sex with at least one girl as well.
We'll probably see the proportion go down, as it becomes (in many countries, at least) easier to come out as gay. But I think there will always be a substantial proportion of gay guys who have sex with a girl out of curiosity, or because saying "yes" was easier than saying "no", or out of genuine affection or love.
All of the above reasons have applied to me at various times. I don't entirely rule out sex with a woman at some point in future, either - though I think it incredibly unlikely. None of that stops me being gay - indeed, having lived as an "out gay man" for nearly 30 years and gone through one or two rough patches accordingly, I think I've pretty much earned the label.
It does rather sound to me as though your friend is still settling down into his own sexuality, and anything that he feels questions that may be threatening. He needs to get a bit more relaxed about it all !
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Yes, NW. I had sex with three girls (and tried to have sex with at least three more) but maybe a dozen or two men! All before getting engaged in 1962/3.
And I agree with Timmy that love pays no attention to sex. Almost anyone can fall in love with almost anyone else (sorry - overstatement - but I hope you see what I mean).
And I still come across people that I think are quite marvellous and am seriously attracted to them. And only with one have I thought I could be unfaithful to Sylvia. And I would have to ask permission first and although I would expect it to be granted it would be a dreadful confession to make.
Does anyone else feel like this?
Love,
Anthony
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Macky
|
 |
Really getting into it |
Location: USA
Registered: November 2008
Messages: 973
|
|
|
Thanks M, When I finally get around to telling my wife about my sexuality, I will not label myself. My explanatuon will start off with a statement like 'love and sexual orientation are not always 2 sides to the same coin.'.
Yesterday my wife mentioned how much more affectionate I've been with her lately. I used the opening to ask her why she stopped initiating sex 12 years ago, do you think I cheated on you? She said no, but she thoght I didn't like to have sex with her. But I would enjoy giving her occasional sexual pleasure even if I'm not into female equipment. I like making her happy. I said 'I want to show more of myself to you. I want you to understand me better.' Then I didn't know how to proceed with explaining just what a Macky is. So I just said Cliffhanger, as I heeded my son's call for help. But the groundwork for telling her is laid.
Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
For brothers to dwell together in unity!
Ps 133:1 NASB
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Macky
|
|
Really getting into it |
Location: USA
Registered: November 2008
Messages: 973
|
|
|
I'm that way too, Anthony. I made the promise to my wife. She has control over my non-solo sex. If she cheerfully gives permission...LOOK OUT, there's going to be some old man sex. Those icy hot patches for back pain should take care of any damage done.
Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
For brothers to dwell together in unity!
Ps 133:1 NASB
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hey M, I haven’t read all the responses yet but, all labels do is limit who we are as humans.
As long as we are happy with whom we are becoming what does what others think matter. Just be patient with your loved one and let him know no matter what you love him not some unknown girl you might find attractive.
;-D
People will tell you where they've gone
They'll tell you where to go
But till you get there yourself you never really know
Where some have found their paradise
Other's just come to harm
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
The thing is, arich, that there are two bad things about labels. One is that if we label ourselves X then we feel it is inappropriate to be Y. "If you're gay then you can't enjoy sex with women."
The other is that we are so afraid of label X that we can't be ourselves because we are too frightened to admit we are or may be X.
For years I was scared of labelling myself gay and really was 'in denial' about it as they say nowadays. Then I got married and 'wasn't' gay!!
Then I realised that it didn't matter and I really was gay but that once I'd accepted it I didn't need the label any more.
But a lot of young people, curious about their sexuality, have hang-ups that seem to me to be more about the labels than the sexuality. And I guess it is because of the stigma society attaches to 'gay' (or that the gay community is inclined to attach to 'bi'.
And the thing to say to them is "Refuse to be labelled and just be yourself." Or at least that's what I think.
Love,
Anthony
[Updated on: Wed, 25 March 2009 15:51] |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Thanks Anthony, I think that was pretty much what I was saying too. 
[Updated on: Wed, 25 March 2009 17:12]
People will tell you where they've gone
They'll tell you where to go
But till you get there yourself you never really know
Where some have found their paradise
Other's just come to harm
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
timmy
|
|
Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13752
|
|
|
I chose my label wisely. It was a relief, finally, to state to myself that I am a gay man.
I have never, not ever, said that being gay precludes any other sexual adventures. I'm sure if an attractive sheep came along and winked at me I'd have a go, equally I confess to having wanked a dog out of curiosity when I was about 12. Turned me right off, frankly! None of that means I an into bestiality.
Labels are a shorthand and, if we wish them to be, are convenient. When I say I am gay people know I very much prefer sex with men. If only!
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jedediah
|
 |
Likes it here |
Location: Made in NZ
Registered: March 2006
Messages: 170
|
|
|
Ohmigod! timmy, i did the same thing, to a dog, also out of curiousity. It was humping my leg, so i reached down and gave it a hand. I was 15 tho', and it was horrible. I've never told anyone that - never thought i would.
Never been interested in sheep tho - we'll leave that for the Aussies & Welshmen. ;-D
cheers
E Te Atua tukuna mai ki au te Mauri tauki te tango i nga mea
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Macky
|
|
Really getting into it |
Location: USA
Registered: November 2008
Messages: 973
|
|
|
I tried the same thing with old Joe the Beagle. He was so appreciative that he turned and gave me a big wet dog kiss right on the mouth. So I, uh, went away from him, leaving him horney.
Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
For brothers to dwell together in unity!
Ps 133:1 NASB
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
e
|
 |
On fire! |
Location: currently So Cal
Registered: May 2002
Messages: 1179
|
|
|
Remind your friend that gay/bi/straight are orientations or preferences, thus by definition are not limiting or exclusive.
I may prefer prime rib to fillet mignon because it is much more to my liking as it is a much more flavorful cut of meat. But this does not mean that I will turn down the occasional fillet. It's just that i have to work a little harder to get as much pleasure from it.
Think good thoughts,
e
|
|
|
|
|
Goto Forum:
|
] 
A Place of Safety
Search
Help
Register
Login
Home
