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No Message Body
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
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Remarkable, Nigel. Do you know where it is?
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Yes, Acam. It's somewhere between the knees and the belly button.
Youth crisis hot-line 866-488-7386, 24 hr (U.S.A.)
There are people who want to help you cope with being you.
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Sorry, no, Anthony. It was culled from the internet.
Hugs
Nigel
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
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Cameron
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Toe is in the water |
Registered: January 2008
Messages: 70
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Just in case anyone is interested, it's called Penis Rock (unofficially, of course) and it's located in the state of Utah's Arches National Park.
Cameron
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Macky
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Really getting into it |
Location: USA
Registered: November 2008
Messages: 973
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Hey. It's circumsised, isn't it. Who needs a foreskin anyway.
Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
For brothers to dwell together in unity!
Ps 133:1 NASB
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ray2x
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Really getting into it |
Location: USA
Registered: April 2009
Messages: 429
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Nature is wonderful. He knows a masterpiece when he created it.
I just wonder where Bubble Butt Rock is.
Raymundo
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13752
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No, just skinned back!
And trust me, if you had known one you would miss it.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Macky
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Really getting into it |
Location: USA
Registered: November 2008
Messages: 973
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No, Timmy. THis is definitely a circumcised stone penis. Were it to have a foreskin, this would be plainly visible as a thin layer of schist right below
the head. Never having had a foreskin, I don't miss it. However, I have had some whiney men who had foreskins. "Be careful! Ouch thats sensitive!" For a person trying to give pleasure to a guy with a foreskin, it seems to be a pain in the butt. Besides, I've heard horror stories about uncircumcised guys skinning up stuff like sand and sweat bees in their foreskins. So having one is not all giggles and fun. Finally, a young man does not need the extra sensitivity. Give the young ladies a break. Young hetero guys come so fast that the woman never gets an orgasm (or so some ladies have told me).
Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
For brothers to dwell together in unity!
Ps 133:1 NASB
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13752
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So we modify the infant's body in order that his putative girlfriend can have an orgasm? I don't think so.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Macky
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Really getting into it |
Location: USA
Registered: November 2008
Messages: 973
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My father said he didn't want me circumcised, but the doctor told him it was Pa state law at the time. Could have been doctor bullshit to cover his mistake; I've never verified the Pa law of 1951.
Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
For brothers to dwell together in unity!
Ps 133:1 NASB
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13752
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This was Doctor's bullshit to avoid(!) a malpractice suit.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Aussie
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Really getting into it |
Registered: August 2006
Messages: 475
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I reckon its uncirced.
It's rock hard and still got wrinkles.
Hey this could turn into an interesting discussion between the haves, have nots, had but don't now and hadn't but do now's.
It never ceases to amaze me how anyone that was circed at birth can say they never miss it because they don't remember having it.
Does a person born without arms or legs never miss them?
I wonder.
Aussie :-/
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I can't address the legalities versus malpractice issue regarding the State of Pennsylvania; but, in Canada, until 1985, circumcision OF ALL MALES at birth was mandated by Law, with few exceptions allowed, and had been thus for well over a century and a half. The exceptions, surprisingly not those that one might routinely consider, were centered largely around the Roman Catholic Church's exception to the practice, but not others, and APPLIED ONLY to "hospital" births; but not those occurring in the home. This latter category accounts for why a significant majority of births registered in the Maritime and Arctic Territories reported uncircumcised males.
Ironically, the decision to abandon the practice in Canada had nothing what-so-ever to do with the morality of the issue; but, lay solely in the escalating costs associated with the practice and published studies advocating that the Canadian Health Care system could save untold millions of dollars by doing away with the mandatory status of the procedure and our adopting a policy of those desiring the practice then having to finance it out of their own pockets, not the public purse.
As a gay male, prior to the year 2000, I could almost guarantee, with a 95% degree of certainty, that ANY MALE I encountered, should he HAVE BEEN BORN IN CANADA and IN ANY LARGE URBAN CENTER anywhere within the Dominion excepting as mentioned above, would have been circumcised. In the year 2009, that probability, should that male be under the age of 25 has dropped to likely in the range of some 30%, and perhaps even less.
Dollars and cents, not morality, and definitely not any purely religious tradition, has spawned a return of the uncircumcised male in Canadian society. Couple this policy with a significant demographic shift within our country's population arising from our whole-heartedly embracing Multiculturalism in the early 1970's, and our population having morphed from a predominantly Anglo-saxon Christian society to that of one whereby our traditional ethnic mix now accounts for less than 35% of the total, it is understandable little Legislative objection was raised when abandoning the practice was being considered, especially given that the lion's share of these new Canadian families come from cultures where circumcision was not, nor had ever been, a part of their social fabric to any significant degree.
Warren C. E. Austin
Toronto, Canada
[Updated on: Thu, 23 April 2009 03:18]
"... comme recherché qu'un délice callipygian"
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Well, Aussie, I am one of those that wishes he had a foreskin. I don't know why it was removed; my father was not circumcised nor was my younger brother.
The great variations in practice are interesting; it clearly seems to be a fashion item (when it isn't an evil religious one). I was done in 1934 in Staffordshire, my brother was born in 1937 in Wembley Park and my father in 1908 in Boulogne-sur-mer.
At school in Hampstead 1943-52 I guess the circumcised boys were a majority, but not an overpowering one - and there were quite a few jews.
I'm glad the practice is gradually being abandoned.
Love,
Anthony
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Aussie
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Really getting into it |
Registered: August 2006
Messages: 475
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Why keep wishing Anthony.
It's not too late to do something about getting it back.
Just Google foreskin restoration for details.
Aussie
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Macky
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Really getting into it |
Location: USA
Registered: November 2008
Messages: 973
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Hey Aussie, I wonder if foreskin restoration would do any good insofar as restoring sensitivity to the head. Once the nerves retreat from there, I don't suppose they'd ever come back.
Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
For brothers to dwell together in unity!
Ps 133:1 NASB
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What I've read about it, Aussie, doesn't encourage me to try to take it further. Maybe you will understand how I feel when I tell you I'm 74 and getting to be a bit past it. I don't think there is much chance that the insensitivity brought about by fifty years of rubbing against underwear could be cured in short order, do you?
But it was a nice thought.
Love,
Anthony
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13752
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You know, the word "evil" does tend to be inflammatory, even when it was probably not meant thus.
I dislike the practice of circumcision for secular reasons, the more so since it was done by the Victorians to discourage masturbation. No I go as far as to say that I detest it.
Where religion becomes involved I also detest it, but I don't go as far as calling it evil. I discuss it without hoping really to gain any ground with those who advocate it. But it isn't evil.
I feel that any deity who requires me to cut of an anatomical part is not one I want to be associated with, though.
I had a foreskin for many years. I know what I am missing. I have had to be circumcised twice, and then I started to restore the foreskin. I wish it had not been necessary to remove it. I'm glad I am not a member of a religion which required it. But I can't call it evil.
I wonder if you would rephrase your dislike so that you attack the surgery, not the religion that requires it.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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acam wrote:
it clearly seems to be a fashion item (when it isn't an evil religious one).
Anthony,
You have gone one step too far as far as I am concerned. Never in all the years that I have been a part of APOS have I ever been so incensed as I am with what you posted. Even Marc, when he was at his worst, never showed such callous and cavalier disregard for other people's religious susceptibilities. To call a religious ceremony that has been practised for thousands of years by many peoples of many different ages and climes "evil" is worse than bigotry: it is crass ignorance! You know NOTHING about what circumcision means to a Jew or a Moslem, so how can you define it as "evil"? If I were to write here that the Eucharist ceremony, as the celebration of residual human sacrifice, is evil I would rightly be castigated by all. You are entitled to state here whatever religious or non-religious opinions you have; it is the height of rudeness and thoughtlessness to describe someone else's religious opinions in such derogatory terms as you did - especially when you could have expressed the same opinion in more polite and much less inflammatory language.
I think an outright and unequivocal apology is called for now.
J F R
The paradox has often been noted that the United States, founded in secularism, is now the most religiose country in Christendom, while England, with an established church headed by its constitutional monarch, is among the least. (Richard Dawkins, 2006)
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13752
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The nerves do not retreat. I used to moderate a yahoo group on foreskin restoration, and know a fair bit about it.
The mucous membrane that is the glans becomes keratinised over time, thickenend. Restoring the foreskin creates the right environment for that to dekeratinise, and thus expose the nerve endings there to touch more easily.
However the glans can only feel hot, cold, pain and pressure. Whatever you may believe it is not the centre of sexual sensation. The entire penis is involved, with subtle nerves registering sexual stimulation. The foreskin had oodles of these, and those have been lost for ever. The frenulum, often removed in the USA, concentrates that sensation, too.
There is a section on the main site detailing my own experience at restoring. The surgery I had makes it impossible for me to achieve, though.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Macky
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Really getting into it |
Location: USA
Registered: November 2008
Messages: 973
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Timmy, I didn't quite get the meaning of the last sentence...achieve what?
Well...I still got a frenulum...does that get me partial credit?
On a lighter note:
Q: Did you hear about the Mohel who got a retirement gift of a wallet made out of all the foreskins he ever cut?
A: When he rubbed it, it turned into a briefcase.
Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
For brothers to dwell together in unity!
Ps 133:1 NASB
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Macky
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Really getting into it |
Location: USA
Registered: November 2008
Messages: 973
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"insensitivity brought about by fifty years of rubbing against underwear "
Anthony: 74 minus 50 = 24.
YOU DIDN'T WEAR UNDERWEAR FOR THE 1ST 24 YEARS OF YOUR LIFE?
OR ALTERNATIVELY,
YOU STOPPED WEARING UNDERWEAR 24 YEARS AGO?
OR,
DID YOU JUST SPORADICALLY DECIDE TO "GO COMMANDO" AT VARIOUS TIMES IN YOUR LIFE?
OR
YOU CONSIDER UNDERWEAR A RARE COLLECTIBLE THAT SHOULD NOT BE SULLIED WITH BODILY FLUIDS.
Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
For brothers to dwell together in unity!
Ps 133:1 NASB
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13752
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I can't actually restore. There is too much longitudinal scar tissue to allow it to fold back
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Warren, can you tell us why it was mandatory in Canada?
Hugs
N
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13752
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I think we need to determine "whether" before "why". I can't find any reference to a law so far and hope Warren can help us.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Aussie
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Really getting into it |
Registered: August 2006
Messages: 475
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Hi Acam
Yes you would get sensitivity back and it only takes weeks of keeping the glans covered to start to feel it.
May I suggest you start off by purchasing a Man Hood which is a silk covering in double thickness so clothing can't rub on it. This will get you back some sensitivity without having to restore. This was how I started out and it spurred me on to experiment with my own homemade devices.
Good luck
Aussie
[Updated on: Thu, 23 April 2009 23:27] |
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Aussie
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Really getting into it |
Registered: August 2006
Messages: 475
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Timmy took the words right out of my mouth.
I agree with him totally.
You might like to try the suggestion I made to Anthony.
Believe me it is worth getting the sensitivity back if nothing else.
Aussie
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... but I know something exists somewhere, and I've made a few telephone calls today to get the information.
What I have learned thus far is that the "policy" stems from decisions made in the 1830's prior to our Confederation, this at the time of the unification of what would become Upper Canada. No-one I spoke with today seems to know if anything was written down Legislatively at that juncture. The first truly national position arose in 1905 after the First Nations Council ceded to the then fledgling Dominion of Canada some 3.8 million square kilometres of treaty lands ("The Hudson's Bay Land Tract") that allowed the creation of the provinces of Alberta, Saskatchewan and British Columbia, sketched the Territory of the Yukon and the Northwest Territories, and formalized largely what we know of today as Manitoba, Ontario, Quebec and Labrador. With the formation of these provinces came the first National Health mandate which was required in order to fulfill upon promises made to the First Nations Council regarding their Health and Welfare, and collaterally all the citizens of Canada. The good folks who drafted what would morph into Medicare by the 1950's relied heavily upon those policies created before Confederation.
Jump ahead now to the 1950's. Universal Medicare is being imposed by our federal government upon all provinces and territories; but, and here seems to be the documentation glitch ... the actual delivery and administration of that Universal Medicare lies solely within the purview of those same provinces and territories, not the federal government. The Federal Government establishes the policy ... apparently through Orders In Council (which do not require parliamentary approval); but, the provinces through their own Health Acts administer it. The carrot and the big stick approach seems to be the glue that binds the whole process together. The federal government is able to dictate the National policy because they fund as little as 60% of direct delivered health care in provinces such as Ontario and Quebec and as much as 100% in provinces such as Prince Edward Island, and a varying degree somewhere in between in all the others. Without these federal dollars delivered through what is formally known as the Canada Assistance Plan and charged directly against the Consolidated Revenue Fund of the Dominion of Canada, there would be no Nation Health mandate nor Medicare.
Each provincial Health Act describes the provision and delivery of services; but in the broadest of terms. It is in the governing Regulations of each of those Acts that the specifics of what is and what isn't covered under the National Health Act are detailed. These Regulations (like the federal Orders In Council) do not require Legislative, or Parliamentary, approval to be revised and amended, only the actual Health Acts themselves do.
It is in this area that I'm searching for the answers I know to exist, and if nothing else I should be able to find the relevant amendment which in 1985 or 1986 removed circumcision from the Medicare approved procedures and acceptable billing.
As to why the policy arose in the first place, and why is seems to have been so universally applied throughout the Dominion, again no-one apparently is willing to give (or can because they truly do not know) a definitive answer. I've heard both health concerns and hygiene mentioned ... it appears we Canadians weren't too fastidious about our use of soap and water and frequent bathing until the mid 1920's with the then rapid deployment of internal plumbing on a widespread scale for the first time.
My father was a home birth as had been his own father; but, both my brother and I were delivered in hospital. Whilst my grandfather seemed to have the choice about his sons, my father didn't for his. The same story is heard time and time again, from family to family.
As difficult as it might seem to be believed, in the mid 1960's I can still remember visiting homes of high schoolmates, where an outdoor privy was still the rule of the day, and the only time they could shower in hot water was after sports events or daily physical education classes at their school.
The last of the community bath houses (a stone's throw away from the Prince Edward Viaduct) in Toronto, this a City of nearly 4 millions, closed in the late 1970's ... both of the above mentioned scenarios give credence to the earlier assertions of health and hygiene concerns; but neither proves or disproves them.
Once I learn more, I'll update this with new information.
"... comme recherché qu'un délice callipygian"
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Well, Macky, I did my sums wrong and what I was trying to do was leave out the years before puberty. Maybe that was wrong too.
Love,
Anthony
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Just as 'bad' is the general adjective of disapprobation, Timmy, 'evil' is the religious adjective of disapprobation and since a lot of circumcision is done for religious reasons I think it is quite fair to use their word for it.
I am suspicious of the theory that the victorians circumcised people to discourage masturbation because there has never been any reason to suppose it *does* reduce masturbation.
And to use your phrase I detest it and also detest all the religion I have come across. It may be foolish or even counterproductive to attack everything I detest in one posting; it may even be improper or too great a change in the subject of a thread to add a sideswipe at religion. I've been foolish and counterproductive before. I guess I could stand it again.
And if you are seriously asking to change my words so as not to attack something I detest, I suppose I would. This place is important to me.
Are you?
Love,
Anthony
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13752
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I am asking you to consider it, especially in the light of JFR's post below. I think it was probably a larger word than was needed in the context, though I understand the rationale you have given for using it.
I think your proof, if such there be, comes from Messrs Kellog (cereal) and Graham (biscuits). It was used as a punishment, thus discouraging the practice. Masturbation was seen as the thing that sapped the will.
That even carried into Dr Strangelove with the rant about our precious fluids!
I have no idea why Abraham decided that his deity had instructed him to circumcise his people. I can only assume that it is a tribal marking. It's one that did not help the Jews during the holocaust. It seems to be as deeply ingrained in "necessities of Judaism" as ritual cannibalism is to Christians during communion.
If one's deity is perfection I see no reason for it then to require modification later. I cannot understand why one must hurt a child to make some form of promise for it. Adults may do what they wish to themselves!
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Macky
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Really getting into it |
Location: USA
Registered: November 2008
Messages: 973
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Big Hugs Anthony!
Please know that I was not trying to make sport of you. I was just trying for a smile.
I feel so badly that JFR was hurt by your remark and that you were hurt by his rebuke. Speech and print are very imperfect means of communication. I know that love and understanding will win out, because thats just the type of people you and JFR are. More big hugs for you both.
Macky
Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
For brothers to dwell together in unity!
Ps 133:1 NASB
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Macky
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Really getting into it |
Location: USA
Registered: November 2008
Messages: 973
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Are you a lawyer, Warren? Or at least a historian. I have never tried looking up the Pennsylvania circumcision law (if there was one)....and I don't think I'm going to attempt it.
Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
For brothers to dwell together in unity!
Ps 133:1 NASB
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... just an ordinary citizen like most others; but, one who has perhaps, as a goodly many others just like me, lived under the delusion (illusion?) that what was thought to be Law, may in fact only have been "Policy".
Here in Canada, there is a big difference between the two, although they are, and can be, and have been, oftentimes confused; this being perhaps a fault in our Parliamentary process which enshrines capabilities of the "ruling" Government to enact "as Law" a goodly many things that effect us in our day-to-day lives; but which in truth have never seen the inside of either Parliament or Legislative Assembly.
The issue of circumcision may well have been one of these. I still don't know, and it will likely be Tuesday, or perhaps even Wednesday before I know for a cert. I have several calls to be returned, and I intend on making a visit to the Metropolitan Toronto Reference Library downtown on Monday to see if they have archived copies of the relevant Ontario Regulations (see my post elsewhere here in this threat about this) from the 1980's (the period where whatever this issue is to be termed, whether Law, or in fact simply policy, was thought to have been repealed.
Warren C. E. Austin
Toronto, Canada
[Updated on: Fri, 24 April 2009 15:11]
"... comme recherché qu'un délice callipygian"
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Foreskin restoration is a rather longdrawnout and tedious process: I think a person has to pretty determined to go through with it!
It took me a bit over two years, starting from an "english-style" cut where quite a lot of foreskin was left. I understand it can be quicker for younger guys - I was in my 40s. Others tell me the result is cosmetically acceptable, and I've certainly noticed a functional improvement (though this has yet to be tested with a partner ...)
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
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Hi guys!!! I did some research and this is what i discovered. In Canada it is illegal for a girl to be circumcised and is considered an assult. There are no laws making it illegal for boys to be circumcised, however no government agency will pay to have the procedure done. Therefor if you want your male child circumcised, you will have to pay for it.
I checked on laws in the U.S. and found none mandating circumcision for boys. There is definately no Federal law mandating circumcision of boys. There is a bill in front of congress however that wants to make male circumcision illegal the same as it is illegal to circumcise girls. This is covered under the equal protection rights of the constitutions 14th amemedment.
Hope this made the water just that much more muddy. 
If you stand for Freedom, but you wont stand for war, then you dont stand for anything worth fighting for.
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NW, love your choice of words - foreskin restoration is a long drawn out process.
Hugs
Nigel
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13752
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Whatever one's position on circumcision, this deserves a reply.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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This deserves a reply 
