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George W Bush was continually attacked on this board when he was president. Since he left office it has gone strangely quiet. The following is out of a sense of fairness as I have no allegiance to American politics.
This was sent to me by one of my many correspondents.
"If George W. Bush had been the first President to need a teleprompter
installed to be able to get through a press conference, would you have
laughed and said this is more proof of how inept he is on his own and is
really controlled by smarter men behind the scenes?
"If George W. Bush had spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to take Laura
Bush to a play in NYC, would you have approved?
"If George W. Bush had reduced your retirement plan's holdings of GM stock by
90% and given the unions a majority stake in GM, would you have approved?
"If George W. Bush had made a joke at the expense of the Special Olympics,
would you have approved?
"If George W. Bush had given Gordon Brown a set of inexpensive and
incorrectly formatted DVDs, when Gordon Brown had given him a thoughtful and
historically significant gift, would you have approved?
"If George W. Bush had given the Queen of England an iPod containing videos
of his speeches, would you have thought this embarrassingly narcissistic and
tacky?
"If George W. Bush had bowed to the King of Saudi Arabia, would you have
approved?
"If George W. Bush had visited Austria and made reference to the non-existent
"Austrian language," would you have brushed it off as a minor slip?
"If George W. Bush had filled his cabinet and circle of advisers with people
who cannot seem to keep current in their income taxes, would you have
approved?
"If George W. Bush had been so Spanish illiterate as to refer to "Cinco de
Cuatro" in front of the Mexican ambassador when it was the 5th of May (Cinco
de Mayo), and continued to flub it when he tried again, would you have
winced in embarrassment?
"If George W. Bush had mis-spelled the word "advice" would you have hammered
him for it for years like Dan Quayle and potatoe as proof of what a dunce he
is?
"If George W. Bush had burned 9,000 gallons of jet fuel to go plant a single
tree on Earth Day, would you have concluded he's a hypocrite?
"If George W. Bush's administration had okayed Air Force One flying low over
millions of people followed by a jet fighter in downtown Manhattan causing
widespread panic, would you have wondered whether they actually get what
happened on 9-11?
"If George W. Bush had failed to send relief aid to flood victims throughout
the Midwest with more people killed or made homeless than in New Orleans ,
would you want it made into a major ongoing political issue with claims of
racism and incompetence?
"If George W. Bush had created the position of 32 Czars who report directly
to him, bypassing the House and Senate on much of what is happening in
America , would you have approved.
"If George W. Bush had ordered the firing of the CEO of a major corporation,
even though he had no constitutional authority to do so, would you have
approved?
"If George W Bush had proposed to double the national debt, which had taken
more than two centuries to accumulate, in one year, would you have approved?
"If George W. Bush had then proposed to double the debt again within 10
years, would you have approved?
"So, tell me again, what is it about Obama that makes him so brilliant and
impressive? Can't think of anything? Don't worry. He's done all this in 10
months -- so you'll have three years and two months to come up with an
answer."
[Updated on: Wed, 18 November 2009 09:15]
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
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Did anyone say Obama was not going to make mistakes? Did they?
George Bush remains an idiot.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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You've missed the point, Timmy. It is the the unfair way that the propaganda machine works.
Hugs
N
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
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The vices & foibles of an individual are magnified astronomically by that person becoming the President of the United States.
Perceptions are also greatly skewered by the portrait of that person we in the press corps paint in the coverage of an administration. Powerful enough indeed that we have been labeled the 4th Estate with good reason.
An example of which would be the downfall of the Nixon Administration at the hands of the Washington Post's staff coverage and probe into the Watergate scandal.
Finally there is this too: There is a 24 Hour news-cycle with instantaneous coverage & commentary world-wide due to the emergence of the Internet. Any American presidency past Bill Clinton forward has and will be subjected to this scrutiny which is unwavering. For better or worse this fact remains as does the reality that any occupant of the Oval Office is on a the greatest stage of all in a prominent role that's open for accolades as well as criticism.
The American political process Nigel is now a war zone with a loss of even the remotest sense of gentility. The White House being the largest target.
Personally? I agree with Tim, but even more so as his VP Dick Cheney was truly the influence and power behind the "throne."
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
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Bush made himself to be his own idiot before the propaganda machine hit him. And the republicans and their mighty propaganda machine have not yet dented Obama, errors an' all.
[Updated on: Wed, 18 November 2009 12:54]
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Macky
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Really getting into it |
Location: USA
Registered: November 2008
Messages: 973
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Yes, interesting from the propaganda machine angle.
However, if we really wanted to prove that Bush was not an idiot, we would naturally point out all the clever things that he did. Pointing out my mistakes or Anthony's mistakes or Obama's mistakes does nothing to resolve the question whether Bush was an idiot or not.
So see, Nigel, by posting this, you confirm that you have been taken in by the propaganda machine that produced this drivel. It's meant to say there is an anti-republican propaganda machine hiding under everyone's bed, and it is unjustly attacking the Republican Party.
The truth is that we are all assailed by all kinds of propaganda machines each and every day. The key is to ignore all of them, and to form one's own opinion based on facts that one can personally verify. (Of course, I just do whatever the hell the damned pope says.  ) ) )
Macky
Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
For brothers to dwell together in unity!
Ps 133:1 NASB
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I can't and don't want to disagree with the last two posts.
To put my argument in a different way, Hitler was rightly condemned for the death of over six million non-combatants in the 1940s whereas history is only too willing to overlook the death of more than twenty million non-combatants in the 1930/40s through Stalin.
Hugs
N
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
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Hi, Brody, may I make a few comments without it turning into a personal attack on you? My comments are between quotations from your post.
"The vices & foibles of an individual are magnified astronomically by that person becoming the President of the United States.
As you say "vices and foibles" (not virtues &c) and they are indeed magnified but 'astronomically' is a bit OTT. The magnification is not done by becoming president; it is done by the media.
"Perceptions are also greatly skewered by the portrait of that person we in the press corps paint in the coverage of an administration. Powerful enough indeed that we have been labeled the 4th Estate with good reason.
Perceptions 'skewered'! Indeed stabbed through, I'd say. What do you mean 'in the coverage of an administration'? The phrase is redundant because the media skewer the president in the coverage of everything else where he can be dragged in.
"An example of which would be the downfall of the Nixon Administration at the hands of the Washington Post's staff coverage and probe into the Watergate scandal.
Well said - and that is a case of real 'skewering' and deserved skewering too.
"Finally there is this too: There is a 24 Hour news-cycle with instantaneous coverage & commentary world-wide due to the emergence of the Internet. Any American presidency past Bill Clinton forward has and will be subjected to this scrutiny which is unwavering.
Don't you mean that time doesn't stop? What is the point of saying it's a cycle? And are you sure it is the internet that's to blame? I think the news was 24 hours a day well before the internet. I was confused at first by 'past Bill Clinton forward' until I figured you meant since Bill Clinton. And what's the force of 'has and will'? Anyone would think 'is' was excluded for some reason.
"For better or worse this fact remains as does the reality that any occupant of the Oval Office is on a the greatest stage of all in a prominent role that's open for accolades as well as criticism.
Well only vices and foibles, I think. When was the last accolade?
I'm having a go at the language because it wraps the sense of what is being said in so many redundant words that sometimes the intended meaning is lost.
The number of times I hear a phrase qualified by 'in the future' when it really doesn't make sense to exclude the past - the sense already excluded it. And whenever someone says 'going forward' I wonder to myself why they don't sometimes try backwards. The reason is because they have lost the ability to say, clearly and simply "I am going to do this ... ...". Instead they feel it necessary to say "Going forward I will make a manifesto commitment to do this in the future."
Please don't take offence. It isn't just you. And (unlike Nigel) I have no hankering to go back to the bad old days of Bush (either of them).
Love,
Anthony
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JimB
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Likes it here |
Registered: December 2006
Messages: 349
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I'm not going to address the question of whether or not George W. Bush is an idiot since that is a politically charged question that is unlikely to be resolved. However, as to why this board had been very quiet regarding him, the answer is likely because GW Bush himself has been very quiet. Besides, the propaganda machine, as some have called it, has a very noisy and visible Sara Palin to work with.
JimB
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As you say "vices and foibles" (not virtues &c) and they are indeed magnified but 'astronomically' is a bit OTT. The magnification is not done by becoming president; it is done by the media.
[ The media contribute to that greatly, but the reality is that The President of The United States by virtue of the office has his and most likely soon to be her character traits in total magnified by that office. I use astronomically as a descriptive way of driving home the point. At one time, that could have also been said of the British PM when the sun never set on the empire. ]
"Perceptions 'skewered'! Indeed stabbed through, I'd say. What do you mean 'in the coverage of an administration'? The phrase is redundant because the media skewer the president in the coverage of everything else where he can be dragged in."
[ I stand by my meaning and it is not redundant. You need to look carefully at the coverage of the POTUS and the administrations, both from a "press pov" and a historical pov.]
Anthony to answer this: "Don't you mean that time doesn't stop? What is the point of saying it's a cycle? And are you sure it is the internet that's to blame? I think the news was 24 hours a day well before the internet. I was confused at first by 'past Bill Clinton forward' until I figured you meant since Bill Clinton. And what's the force of 'has and will'? Anyone would think 'is' was excluded for some reason."
[When I started off reporting in the late 1970's, we literally phoned the stories in to copy editors and at that time there was no CNN etc. In the U. S. a vast majority of the populace received the news from newspaper. Since the web, which came of age during the Clinton era, news cycles went from CNN and few other precious television outlets on a 24 hour basis to a truly 24 hour basis. This is made even more-so apparent by the armies of citizen blogger/journalists of whom, several I have encountered in my travels do an outstanding job. You are also looking for "blame" or reading into my comments something that wasn't really an opinion but me stating a fact. 24 hour news cycles are a reality due to the technology, not in spite of it. It was not a negative by the way.]
"For better or worse this fact remains as does the reality that any occupant of the Oval Office is on a the greatest stage of all in a prominent role that's open for accolades as well as criticism.
Well only vices and foibles, I think. When was the last accolade?"
[ Although those of us in the press corps do get blamed for being overly negative, we do run stories about things that are accomplished by the occupants of the Oval Office, that are positive and do make a difference.]
Okay. so there's my "spin" back to you:
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
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You know, intellectually I would be likely to vote republican. And yet I am sure Bush was an idiot. I think we can separate party and personality here. Obama makes human mistakes (as did the idiot Bush), but Obama is by no means an idiot.
In the same way, Blair and Brown are not idiots, though I deprecate their politics. My own MP, MacKay, now he is an idiot, but he is by no means unintelligent.
I think the tense of the question is poor. Bush has never ceased to be an idiot.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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I thought, when you wrote the perception was 'skewered', that you meant 'skewed'.
Love,
Anthony
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
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Shouldn't perception have been prevented by housing his parents in a condominium?
[Updated on: Wed, 18 November 2009 17:25]
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Anthony wrote:
>And (unlike Nigel) I have no hankering to go back to the bad old days of Bush (either of them).<
I have no hankering to go back to the Bush days. I still have not made myself clear. My reason for posting the original was to show that the propaganda machine is not fair, not just. Bush was an oaf and his oafish ways were exposed. Obama is being equally an oaf, but he is not being exposed.
Hugs
Nigel
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
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Macky wrote:
>So see, Nigel, by posting this, you confirm that you have been taken in by the propaganda machine that produced this drivel. It's meant to say there is an anti-republican propaganda machine hiding under everyone's bed, and it is unjustly attacking the Republican Party.<
I was not "taken in". I am as sceptical (probably cynical) as most thinking people. If what the propaganda machine has produced about Obama is drivel, it follows that what it has produced about Bush is equally drivel. Note that it tries to parallel what is said about each. The second part of what you wrote is y o u r interpretation, not mine.
Btw I say again that I neither support nor denigrate either the Republican or the Democratic Party. I am not American. I just take a view from 3000 miles away.
Hugs
N
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
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I regret not changing the subject line from the original post I received. I must not be so hasty in future. It has reduced the debate.
Hugs
N
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
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Macky
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Really getting into it |
Location: USA
Registered: November 2008
Messages: 973
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"If what the propaganda machine has produced about Obama is drivel, it follows that what it has produced about Bush is equally drivel."
I don't dispute the basis for what was said. I don't have the facts. But the way it was said; that is, it was stated to make a claim that there is a propaganda machine working against Bush is indeed drivel. Not because there isn't a propaganda machine working against him, but because propaganda machines are as common as dirt. They are a non-issue to any right thinking person.
Forgive me if I sounded like I thought you were taking the side of the R party. I saw that what you are interested in here is the propaganda. What I'm saying is that there is propaganda everywhere, and Obama is being treated just as badly by it as Bush or any other modern president. I refuse to cry a tear for the mistreatment of W. I am wont to say bad words about Bush now, but this really isn't the place for that, so I'll just mutter them under my breath.
Macky
Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
For brothers to dwell together in unity!
Ps 133:1 NASB
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Macky
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Really getting into it |
Location: USA
Registered: November 2008
Messages: 973
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"I would be likely to vote republican"
Hypothetical of course, but I doubt you would vote Republican.
The antics of the religious right would undoubtedly drive you from the party, no matter how sensible the platform.
Sometimes, when you know there's a worm hiding in an apple, ya just pitch it, no matter how good it looks.
Macky
Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
For brothers to dwell together in unity!
Ps 133:1 NASB
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Well I owe you an apology then, Nigel. It really looked to me as though you were saying Obama is worse than Bush.
I don't think he is nearly as bad as Bush was. He is not tainted with Oil or Halliburton or the religious right and he is doing quite a lot of good things socially and economically. [Don't ask; don't tell, health insurance, global warming, for example.]
Love,
Anthony
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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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I would hate to live in a country with first past the post voting.
I'd vote Libertarian in the states, but it'd do nothing. If I had a log-cabin Republican or someone from the Republican Liberty Caucus as my local candidate I'd support them. Otherwise I'd probably vote democrat.
In Australia we have preferential voting. So I can vote for small parties with no chance of winning government like the Liberal Democratic Party, Sex Party, Pirate Party, Secular Party, etc. And I still get to choose who out of the major parties I prefer as a "last resort". In Australia I'd vote Liberal at the moment, simply because the current Prime Minister is socially conservative despite coming from the more "progressive" party.
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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ray2x
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Really getting into it |
Location: USA
Registered: April 2009
Messages: 429
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George Bush was dangerous. And an idiot. Mix together, he was a dangerous idiot. Did anybody feel safe knowing a military man was within a few yards from him, and that that military man held a device which would destroy the Earth if Bush felt like ending the Earth?
A dangerous idiot.
And he had no clue to his condition.
Raymundo
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