I expect simple behaviours here. Friendship, and love. Any advice should be from the perspective of the person asking, not the person giving! We have had to make new membership moderated to combat the huge number of spammers who register
Dear Timmy,
I'd be grateful if you would point out to me (and maybe Cossie) what it is that I've written that justifies the personal attacks on us that you can read in other threads. I'm not a fool or immoral and the fact that I disagree with the terminology about war and about the question of fact about anyone's declaration of it don't seem to justify the suggestion that Cossie and I are failing to do what's right for the group.
Surely my view about the way to promote homosexual equality is as valid as anyone else's until shown to be failing in some respect. It hasn't been shown to be failing. Simply asserting that I or Cossie haven't understood is inadequate. We actually are quite intellectually competent.
If everyone on here thinks I'm wrong please tell me, the rest of you. As far as I can tell only one person has attacked me and only one other person has said he thinks that there really is a war declared on us (but he didn't say who made the declaration - maybe it was by the bible belt christian right in the USA). But the USA isn't even a majority of the world and the bible belt isn't a majority of the USA.
The USA seems to be a place where people are ready to do the most amazingly stupid things like burning hundreds of copies of the Koran which won't make reconciliation with Islam easier. Not that I think there is anything to be said in favour of Islam or any other religion. I can think like this surely without declaring war on all religions?
I have looked at what I have written here and can't find much wrong with it. I proof-read what I write before posting it (I wish everyone did!). I'm not (I hope) over-hasty in my responses and I take care to explain where I disagree, if I do. But the people who seem to disagree with me don't do the same. I don't have much idea what it was about what I wrote that led to the latest attacks on me. [Maybe it was simply the fact that I don't go along with everything that some other people say - but then, who does?]
Surely you don't think it is my duty to agree with you (or with anyone else?) Plainly I think it isn't a war and that the use of that word is inappropriate but what is wrong with that? I'm entitled to my view.
And as someone in Monty Python said, assertion and contradiction don't make an argument.
Love,
Anthony
Location: England
Registered: November 2003
Messages: 1756
Cogently expressed, Anthony. It needed saying, but will probably fall on stony ground. I am sorry that you have to endure these attempts to humiliate you.
Hugs
Nigel
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
I'm really not a mediator. I am doing things to keep personal attacks under some sort of control, but you have obviously a major difference of opinion with Brody. I cannot read his mind, so I cannot tell you why he expresses himself so steadfastly, nor so strongly, vehemently, against your posts.
All I can say is that I disagree with your thinking as well. Where I have found it either relevant or important to me I have done my best to show you how.
The thing you need to do is to enter into a quiet and reflective dialogue with him, in public or in private, and discover why this is now the status quo. I dislike this as the status quo, but I cannot sort out every squabble.
That you disagree with him (and me and others) is accepted and acceptable. That he disagrees with you is equally accepted and acceptable. The personality differences between you are just that. They are between you.
I do think you need to take a less insular and cosy view. I would like to persuade you to do so. Abuse is unlikely to do that.
I can tell you that one paragraph in the post I am replying to now aggravates me substantially:
"...As far as I can tell only one person has attacked me and only one other person has said he thinks that there really is a war declared on us (but he didn't say who made the declaration - maybe it was by the bible belt christian right in the USA). But the USA isn't even a majority of the world and the bible belt isn't a majority of the USA."
That throwaway parenthesis is to me trite in the extreme, and appears designed to aggravate not to ameliorate. And the paragraph shows that you have not realised that this is substantially wider that the US Bible Belt, and that you fail to understand that (eg) Uganda is effectively being controlled in this by US fundamentalist pseudo-christians.
Now I find that amazing, and it appears to me to be carefully placed to aggravate. You are, after all, an educated man and you have said that you read with care what you write. So my surmise is that this is not an accident, nor an oversight. It is instead an apparent true lack of ability to understand what is being said to you, or it is an incitement for Brody to attack you over it.
You will see that I am choosing not to attack you over it but that I am calling you out on it. I think you need to justify your position. I believe it to be either substantially rude or fundamentally incorrect. You may believe it is neither.
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
I read your post, brief as it is, Nigel, carefully. I asked myself whether it adds positive value to the discussion or is divisive. I have no idea how to respond to it since I have responded to similar before. I do not believe, however, that it is a useful addition to the discussion - a discussion which really should be between Brody and Acam.
OK, Timmy, I made a false assumption (that you were mainly concerned with the bible belt); but I honestly don't know who you think has declared war.
Of course homophobia is world-wide to various degrees. But if I'm looking to find out who you think has declared war on us I'm not going to search among the tartars or in Myanmar or Nigeria or Azerbaijan am I?
But why would I want to annoy you or anyone else?
I am baffled and unable to understand how what I wrote could be thought rude. Obviously if I thought it was incorrect I would correct it.
I'm not inciting anyone to attack me. Why would I do that?
Why don't you simply say who has declared war? You haven't, have you? Surely I couldn't have missed it?
My position is that I am unable to understand what you are saying.
And what makes the things I say seem to you as if I'm trying to annoy you? I'm not trying to annoy you. Why would I want to do that?
I feel as if the things you accuse me of doing to 'incite' you are similar to the things the jews did to incite Hitler. That is that I am sufficiently different for you to think I'm a threat.
Please find someone else in the world outside this forum that thinks I'm a threat or inciting anyone to verbal violence or rage.
You know I simply don't recognise anything of me in what you write to me.
Love,
Anthony
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
Again you come back to semantics and pedantry. You ask who has declared the war.
It surprises me that you cannot determine that this is a war that has been declared openly by multiple different people in multiple different ways. I am not going to give you a list of each of the many people who think that homosexuals are subhuman, or disgusting, or a perversion, or will corrupt our children, or can and should be cured, or should be put to death.
Perhaps you need to look at your post the more carefully because it does, in truth, cause a mixture in me of bewilderment and, yes, annoyance.
That you are baffled that what you wrote can be called rude appears to me to be rhetoric. The words individually and the phrases themselves are not rude. They way the whole is used, that appears to me to be rude.
You will see that I use the word 'incite' once. It is not in any sense associated with me.
You express things in a patronising manner. "Why don't you simply say who has declared war? You haven't, have you? Surely I couldn't have missed it?" is patronising. Whether you intended it to be or not I receive it and perceive it as patronising. It matters not at all what we mean when we write things. What matters is what people understand when they read them. At least when Brody attacks you then you are in no doubt as to the meaning, even if reading the attacks is hurtful. Reading your words I feel I must always give you the benefit of some doubt or other.
I also find the injured innocent tone obnoxious. Please do not look up at me with puppy dog eyes, I really do not like it. It looks like playing to the gallery.
Location: England
Registered: November 2003
Messages: 1756
Timmy, there is no need for a reply, but you may infer from the fact that I have continued to write in this manner that I am not going to be bullied. I have also noticed that when others write in like vein that they do not get censured.
I don't know what I have done to get on the wrong side of you, but obviously something from all the stick you're giving me. Again this comment does not expect a reply. Have I given you jip? (rhetorical question)
Hugs
Nigel
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
Trust me. All who write in like vein will be censured. I have had quite enough of pretty much everyone's behaviour. All those who choose sides will find that I an upset with them.
I shall not be piling up examples at your door. I think you need to remove your metaphorical head from the metaphorical sand, though.
There is a purpose in placing this here. It gets it wider exposure. Perhaps another 10 souls will see it. Perhaps one of those will distribute it where a further 10 souls will see it. Perhaps one of them will distribute it further.
] 
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