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You are here: Home > Forum > A Place of Safety > General Talk > Long time....
Long time....  [message #67275] Tue, 01 January 2013 17:33 Go to next message
saben is currently offline  saben   Japan

On fire!

Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537



It's been a long time since I've been here, even longer since I've posted. I think I was pissed off over something at some stage and didn't want to come back and when the forums changed to the new style (which ironically is something I'd called for in the past) it made it much easier to leave behind a place I once felt was home.

I've been going through an emotionally turbulent period recently, though, and strangely I didn't know anywhere else I felt I could communicate my feelings. Trying to break into any new community with a post laden with angst would feel awkward and something like my facebook is too public. This isn't quite the place I used to visit 10 long years ago. But it's also got some familiar faces left that know a little about me and who I feel comfortable being honest around. I've got my wonderful boyfriend that I've been with nearly 8 years, but given he's a part of my life it can be hard for us to distance ourselves from each other or offer an original or outside perspective. We love and know each other so much that we finish each others' sentences (sickening, I know, especially considering I never had an ambition to be a romantic) so I think I want to share this with others.

But where to start? I feel like I have such a whirlwind of emotions going on around me. I'm not sure whether to have a single post or multiple... I guess I'll just start with a few of the things I'm feeling and go from there.
  • I'm living in Japan again now, but thanks to homophobic laws here and at home, my partner can't get a Dependent Visa. He's limited to short tourist stays of 90 days at a time. He missed my birthday, Christmas and New Year's. It's been lonely, but as always I underestimate the impact my emotions will have when decision making. I reason myself into these situations and realise I feel things more deeply than I expect to. I love my partner and never want to be apart from him.
  • Simultaneously I can't shake the part of me that is fixated on younger guys. Although I love my relationship so much, part of me wants more. I don't think I'd want to trade my relationship, but in some ways I covet the Greek pedarastic traditions where a man could have his relationship but also have a special connection with a younger protégé.
  • Specifically I recently developed a crush on a younger (but still legal) guy. I have an "in theory, but seldom in practice, open relationship" and my partner was in Australia so the reigns were loosened more than usual. So I actually told the object of my affection of my interest but despite professing a slight bi-curiosity, he wasn't interested in pursuing anything. Now I have these strong "crush" feelings lingering and I'm not sure how to manage them.
  • Thinking about it, part of me just doesn't even find the idea of being an adult, having an adult relationship or pursuing adult "successes" to be appealing. I'm working full time overseas now, I've finished my degree, I'm a "proper adult" yet a large part of me feels less fulfill than when I was 17, in school and having my first "love".
  • I sometimes wonder how much of my fixation towards younger guys comes from my first love having been younger and that relationship having dissipated (he moved without us saying a goodbye) before it began. I wouldn't say I've been heavily fixated on him over the past 11 years. But I still have strong positive feelings towards those experiences, even if not towards him directly. I don't know if those experiences shaped me, or if I'd still be the kind of person to find not just the teenage form, but teenage minds appealing.
  • Over the years I've occasionally searched for that first lost love. Tonight I actually did manage to find him on facebook and sent a very casual message. Just reminding him of the New Years Eve we spent together (as friends at the time) in 2002 and asking if he remembered me. He's got a family and is in a very long term relationship. There's a hint of the boy I loved in his profile picture, but he isn't someone I'd be attracted to today. I'm just wondering what his attitude towards the past will be. And I'm wondering if pursuing "closure" like this will have any impact on me.



So that's about the size of it. If you'd have told me all those years ago that "give it a decade and you won't have any problems at all with being gay, including from your family, but you'll still have good reason to come to this forum to share your feelings" I'm not sure what I'd have thought of it. But I don't know that there's anywhere else I'd feel safer. Even if concerns with "digital footprints" leave me wondering if anywhere is truly safe for anything.

[Updated on: Tue, 01 January 2013 17:34]

Re: Long time....  [message #67279 is a reply to message #67275] Tue, 01 January 2013 18:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13516



I suppose the question at the top of my list is "Since you have been with your young man for some 8 years, how come you went to Japan without him?" I'll follow that with "If you can work there, why can he not work there too?"

[Updated on: Tue, 01 January 2013 18:44]




Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Long time....  [message #67280 is a reply to message #67279] Tue, 01 January 2013 19:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
saben is currently offline  saben   Japan

On fire!

Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537



I came to Japan for a full time position at the start of August. He followed me in mid September which gave him 90 days, but on a Tourist Visa he had to leave by mid December. He'll likely be coming back in mid/late January. If it was less financially restrictive he would have come back sooner, but a return ticket every 90 days isn't a small expense. Especially when multiple back-to-back Tourist Visas can start to make immigration a little edgy.

As for the second question- I have a degree, he doesn't so is options are more restricted. He has the option of a Working Holiday Visa, similar to what I did a few years back. That'd give him 6 months, extendable twice, with work permissions. But it's only available once, so unless he can finish his studies he'd be in the same position at the end of that. Also the Working Holiday Visa requires a small amount of capital to be shown, proof of savings so that you're not going to the country dry and just hoping to get a job.

We've loved the time together here and actually a straight unmarried couple where only one person has a degree would be in the same situation as us. But it's more that such a couple would have the option to marry and get a Dependent Visa. That isn't an option for us, partially because whether Japan would recognise it or not is ambiguous and more importantly because Australia still doesn't support same sex marriage. It's one reason why I think civil unions are not enough (Japan MIGHT recognise a same sex marriage, but is less likely to a civil union). But that's a tangent.

Basically the 3 months we had together here were worth the time we've been apart, especially as my job prospects seemed quite miserable in Australia. But homophobic law is really the only reason he isn't here now.
Re: Long time....  [message #67281 is a reply to message #67280] Tue, 01 January 2013 22:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13516



Is he working towards a degree and one which will have employment prospects in Japan? And, if so, how do you feel about that with your attraction to those who remain of the age of your unrequited love (a thing I recognise to my own cost and have worked hard to alter, with some success)?

By the way, you didn't answer the question 'why?' in more than cursory detail. You answered 'what?' rather than 'why?'

[Updated on: Tue, 01 January 2013 22:27]




Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Long time....  [message #67282 is a reply to message #67281] Wed, 02 January 2013 09:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
saben is currently offline  saben   Japan

On fire!

Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537



He's working on his degree through correspondence and should be able to find a job here at the end of that. If not, I've already told him that I'd rather be with him in Australia than in Japan (for any reason). Living abroad and having the new experiences that entails is important to me, but my relationship comes first. We're hoping that this separation won't be something that happens again after this instance, but it's just so frustrating that it happened in the first place.

Which is what's frustrating about these other conflicting feelings. Why can't me being happy in my relationship be enough by itself?

I know I love him immensely. The way I feel when he's not here confirms that. I used to think "oh, I like being in a relationship, but it's not necessary, I'd be fine alone". Having experienced temporary separation now I feel that if I lost my relationship it would be something I could adapt to, but it'd be very difficult. It's more of a need than I ever realised it was. I don't feel anyone else understands me quite so well. He can finish my sentences, he gets my humour and we make obscure references that only we share because of our shared lives.

Yet while I'd never want to sacrifice my relationship, I still feel compelled in both my heart and loins to explore other possibilities. Not for a relationship... But for something.

I'm not really sure of what I want, but I still feel slightly discontent with my life as it stands. Even though it's a lot of what I've ever wanted.


I don't know if that answered the "why"s you were asking. If not, I'm not quite sure I understand what you are getting at. Maybe I'm reading too much (or not enough) into your questions.

[Updated on: Wed, 02 January 2013 09:20]

Re: Long time....  [message #67283 is a reply to message #67282] Wed, 02 January 2013 09:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13516



I was wondering why one would leave at all. That is the big 'why?' and by getting closer to it you are clearing your head. So keep answering.



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Long time....  [message #67284 is a reply to message #67283] Wed, 02 January 2013 13:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
saben is currently offline  saben   Japan

On fire!

Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537



I came to Japan knowing that he'd be with me, but also that he'd have to go home for "short" periods. One month looked shorter on paper than it feels in reality. As I said, we had 3 awesome months of him being here. It could be said that actually he left our home here in Japan, rather than the opposite (out of necessity rather than desire, though).

I guess on paper the idea of having one month away from him (but knowing we'd be together after it) seemed somewhat appealing "on paper". As I said we have an in theory open-relationship that I've never really taken advantage of. The ironic thing is that I'm the one that pushed for an open relationship, but because the objects of my attraction are often "forbidden fruit", or when they aren't, simply uninterested in me, he's actually ahead. An open-relationship has given him more opportunities than me, simply because the guys he likes are more available.

Why I guess returns me to why I ever wanted an open-relationship in the first place? I think it's partially because I felt a monogamous, adult, gay relationship wouldn't fulfill me. But maybe that's just a self-fulfilling prediction?
Re: Long time....  [message #67285 is a reply to message #67284] Wed, 02 January 2013 17:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13516



It's interesting, the simple process of answering questions, isn't it. I'm not being at all pushy, and you can stop answering 'why?' any time you like, but, while you are answering, what real benefit does an open relationship bring you and why do you/did you want one?

[Updated on: Wed, 02 January 2013 17:56]




Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Long time....  [message #67286 is a reply to message #67285] Wed, 02 January 2013 18:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
saben is currently offline  saben   Japan

On fire!

Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537



I think the appeal of it, is I see certain things that I can get outside my relationship, and also it offers variety. I sometimes use the analogy "I love Australian, it's my favourite cuisine, I love eating it regularly, but sometimes I feel like Japanese or Thai". It's not that my partner's unappealing, but he's incapable of shapeshifting, one thing I can never get out of my relationship with him is the pleasure of exploring different bodies and different attractions.

At the same time it's more than just physical and sexual. It's also that I feel there's a kind of relationship that I had when I was younger (and have had some borderline cases of since) that is not the same kind of relationship I have with my partner. Something akin to a Greek pedarasty, I guess, though I've always respected relevant laws. But I really like the feeling of having a younger male look up to me, not just a teacher, but as something closer, more intimate. I have felt that kind of bond before. And I crave to feel it again.

To me it does step on the toes of what I feel in my relationship. But only a little. It's a very different kind of bond. Loving a parent, child or friend doesn't come at the expense of one's own relationship. Similarly what I crave isn't something I feel is an alternative to my relationship. Of course the complications are many, socially and emotionally (with a little legal/ moral greyness thrown in).

I wonder how much of what I crave is me misplacing paternal instincts and allowing those emotions to mix with memories of past loves? Yet I feel there's something different between father-son bonds and what I want. More than just the intimacy side. I think it's to do with the kinds of boundaries that necessarily exist in a father-son relationship. Then again not having had a father in my life maybe I just don't know.

Yet the Greeks had fathers as well as these kinds of relationships. Actually a lot of societies did. The Japanese. The Persians. Perhaps this is just a biological urging that is present in a lot of males but stronger in me, something that society's repressed but might have been (or even still be) a fundamental part of human nature. Or maybe I'm just deluded and trying to justify my feelings with logic instead of trying to change them.
Re: Long time....  [message #67287 is a reply to message #67286] Wed, 02 January 2013 19:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13516



There is one major challenge with finding the youthful form appealing. You are, if I recall aright, mid to late twenties. It is feasible for you to attract a teenager at your age, just. Mid thirties, less likely; mid forties, far less likely; mid fifties, only with a large bank account; mid sixties, only if you rent one. So, ignoring any moral, ethical, or lawful objections, and recognising that you choose always to keep within the law (amusingly lower in Japan), the probability of your being able to live your fantasy gets lower with each passing year. There is a point in life when this hits you on the face with an anvil. I met my anvil some years ago. IT hurt.

If I were arguing with you I'd examine your food analogy and suggest that one chooses to forego some restaurants in a relationship because one is committed to the relationship. I recognise that you've defined your relationship to allow excursions to Kentucky Fried Greyhound, but you imply you have railroaded your partner to accept this. Yet a partnership of souls ought to be equally balanced.



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Long time....  [message #67288 is a reply to message #67287] Wed, 02 January 2013 21:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
saben is currently offline  saben   Japan

On fire!

Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537



I think part of the pain is the recognition that I am getting older and that means that while certain doors are opening, others are closing. It's like last drinks have been called and I only had the chance to try half the things I wanted from the menu. Or rather last drinks were called while I was in the loo and I've had the ability to place a last order taken from me.

This feeling's exacerbated by the fact that I have developed friendships with two different 16 year old boys, caring relationships that border on what I yearn for. One of them is clearly off limits for numerous reasons, I met him through my job so pursuing anything would be unprofessional, plus he has a girlfriend. The other, I mentioned early, is with a boy who's expressed some level of bicuriosity, has no connection to my work life and is single. Just before Christmas and just after my partner had left I even spent the night at his home to help him build a new computer. It was enjoyable, it almost felt like I'd recaptured my youth, like I was just another teenager staying at a friends' house, when rather I was a 28 year old staying at a 16 year old's place, which sounds STRANGE. As mentioned above, we had a chance to talk about the topic of my interest, but he wasn't willing to pursue anything. (I know YOU know, but I still feel the need to make the disclaimer that 16, in the all the countries I've lived, that aren't filled with quite so much puritanical hysteria, is above the age of consent). His dismissal was polite and we've been able to remain friends. I could appreciate his reasons, basically it came down to that while he had some curiosity about guys he's still a virgin and wouldn't want his first experience to be with another male, partially because he's slightly concerned that could influence his judgement of his own feelings into the future. Also he's a romantic that would want a relationship more than something casual.. But despite these very valid reasons that I respect and wouldn't try to push him past, I'm still left feeling slightly bruised and "rejected", caught up in occasion flights of fancy about what might have happened.

Now the pang of unrequited love is hardly unique. But I'm left with two further dilemmas, one being the uniqueness of this situation and the feeling that it's the last chance anything like this might have to happen, which intensifies the angst. And secondly the questioning that I should even be so emotionally invested in this kind of crush that it should even take a toll on me. I have a relationship I care about, a relationship many would be jealous of but that's not enough? Am I just being exceedingly greedy? Furthermore what does being emotionally impacted by this situation mean for my relationship. Nothing happened but my emotions are strongly invested, am I emotionally cheating? Emotional cheating seems worse than having just a sexually open relationship to me, but then again I'm not imagining that if anything happened that it would replace my relationship, so I don't know if that counts as emotionally cheating when the value of my relationship itself is still paramount.

Which brings me to your other point about commitment. I kind of understand where you are coming from, but at the same time to me there is nothing about commitment that means "exclusivity", especially when talking sexually. Commitment is about having a mutual understanding that come what may, you cannot imagine leaving or being without the other person. I can't see, at least rationally, how sexual exploration necessarily undermines that. But of course, the heart isn't rational and that's part of my problem in all this. I've always tried to value logic and rationality above emotion. I've make plans and decisions based on "reason". But ultimately I'm still just as chemically bound and driven as any other primate. The incongruity between my head and my heart frustrates me. But I have been trying to listen more to my heart, even if I don't heed its urgings. I think in the past I've tried to ignore how I feel and its ended up with my heart just taking control and deciding things for me.

As for railroading, I'm not sure it was that so much as him recognising there are certain things that are a part of me won't change in a relationship and me recognising the same of him. Part of that meant on the topic of open relationships it has been very much a negotiation and compromise. From the beginning I expressed that it's what I was interested in, but also said that I've never want to do anything without his knowledge and if not "blessing", at least his consent. That was me trying to respect his boundaries while still trying to express myself. As he gained more confidence in our relationship and we grew together we transitioned more towards an "in theory" open relationship where I was told I had freedom, but didn't really want to use it partially because I knew how it would effect him, part of this period also included him having the opportunity to try other experiences himself. Then recently he's become even more comfortable I guess and has been the one encouraging me to actually use the freedom he gave me a long time ago if that's what will make me happy. That's basically where we're at now. He still doesn't feel he "needs anyone else", because "I'm enough" and I explain to him that he is enough, as my partner, but my relationship isn't the only thing I want defining my life. So we understand each other even if we still have different preferences in this area.

So that's kind of where I'm up to now. In my own thinking. It's a tangle and I'm not sure what I actually want, or where to go from here. Part of it is tied to the fact that while I don't mind my job (it's a lot better than being unemployed and failing in my studies) I can't say that I feel content. But I can't imagine another (adult) situation where I'd feel content. I do think about "what if I was successful and wealthy with my partner" and the idea is appealing, I'd infinitely prefer that to my rather "average" job now, but even imagining that scenario I'm not sure that I feel content, or if I still envision there being something missing.

[Updated on: Wed, 02 January 2013 21:26]

Re: Long time....  [message #67289 is a reply to message #67288] Wed, 02 January 2013 22:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13516



You're not sure where you want to go nor what you want, no. So define the routes and set out what they each mean for you. Private or public as you like.



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Long time....  [message #67291 is a reply to message #67289] Wed, 02 January 2013 23:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
saben is currently offline  saben   Japan

On fire!

Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537



You mean I don't just get away with whining, I actually have to think of solutions? Aww man.... Razz

Probably a good task saved for after sleep. But it has been good to clarify my thoughts in writing and have clarifying questions asked. So thanks for the questions and for providing a venue I feel I can ask them in.
Re: Long time....  [message #67292 is a reply to message #67291] Thu, 03 January 2013 09:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13516



No compulsion, no need even to make the results public. Paradoxically that is what makes it harder not to perform the exercise Smile



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Long time....  [message #67801 is a reply to message #67292] Mon, 17 June 2013 14:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
saben is currently offline  saben   Japan

On fire!

Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537



So... I decided that I cared more for him than for these other emotions. For the first time I was sure that I wanted to spend the rest of my life with him. 4 months ago we got engaged. I was finally certain about my priorities.

Today I'm single. It seems the doubts I had have surfaced in him in a similar way instead. He, having dated only me and from such a young age, has decided that he wants to explore other options. He loves me, but he thinks he might feel more strongly towards others. He doesn't want to go through life regretting that he settled down with me without knowing anything else.
Re: Long time....  [message #67802 is a reply to message #67801] Mon, 17 June 2013 17:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13516



I wish it were not a common story. You sound as though you are right for each other, but met too early.

Wait for him, yes, but not for ever.



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Long time....  [message #67804 is a reply to message #67802] Mon, 17 June 2013 20:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
saben is currently offline  saben   Japan

On fire!

Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537



Waiting....

I'm not even sure how to do that.

We're always so honest with each other. How can I keep the door ajar without him feeling smothered and like I'm not actually letting him go?
IT is a time for choices. Your choices, now, not his  [message #67806 is a reply to message #67804] Mon, 17 June 2013 21:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13516



It is a matter of asking him what he would like to happen. You can tell him with honesty that you would like to wait for his head to clear, if that is the truth. 

Obviously you need to explain that you don't mean that he has gone barking mad. That is not the type of head clearing I mean. I mean that he needs to work out whether the man who loves him is the man he wants to set aside for ever, or whether he thinks he may wish to return to the relationship having explored whatever it is that he wishes to explore.

What matters at this moment is really what you want to happen. That part is a thing you have freedom of choice over. If you do not want to let him go then you need to court him again and win him again. You need to decide on strategy and tactics. But what if what you really want is to let him go? If so then let him go as a good friend, pne with whom you can still share a joke and a quiet smile, and one who will welcome you and your eventual partner in his and his eventual partner's life.

I think he is being somewhat immature. If we love someone we do not search for a better love. It is what it is, and it is now. Actually 'immature' is the wrong word, but it is part of it. He is being genuinely selfish, that;s fine, but it's childishly selfish, which is not. It reminds me of the search for the ultimate orgasm. It's always in the next fuck with the next person. Only it isn't. I suspect being an engaged person scares him. That's fine, but, and this is important, almost all people who genuinely partner for love do not have huge second thoughts. I married for love to a woman despite being as gay as an Easter parade. I had no premarital doubts. They surfaced 25 or so years later.

So, your child bridegroom, what is going on in his head? Might it be commuting to Japan? Is that a problem? Is it your declared attraction to fresh nubile meat? Is it something you can alter by altering things that you can change about yourself and your lifestyle, or is it all about him?

In a way you are right about waiting. It is difficult. But it is not difficult being waited for. It is doing the waiting that is difficult. Being waited for is like insurance. If you wait for me I can always settle for you if I can't get a better one. That doesn't smother me. Waiting smothers you, unless you seek out new loves and abandon the old one when you find the next love of your life. There will be a next love.



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: IT is a time for choices. Your choices, now, not his  [message #67809 is a reply to message #67806] Mon, 17 June 2013 23:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
saben is currently offline  saben   Japan

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Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537



Part of it, I think is he feels like there isn't a mutual attraction between us.

He likes strong, manly, alpha males. I'm not that.

And as he has aged (22 now) he's been worried that he isn't what I like either.

He's feeling that our love has intimacy and commitment, but could have more passion (to use the triangle theory of love).

He feels guilty, he feels he is being superficial. But he wants to know what a relationship with a kind of passion that we seem to lack feels like. I'm not sure that I believe we've lacked passion, per se.. But right now he's feeling the "gap" in our relationship. I can understand that, there is something that exists between me and younger guys that doesn't exist in our relationship. There's something that exists between him and "alpha males" that doesn't exist between him and me.

There's also the fact that we've both struggled and muddled along with adult life. As individuals we have some bad habits. Neither of us is the most motivated go-getter. We often form habits around laziness and gaming. And we've reinforced each other's bad habits. Rather than motivate each other, we've grown comfortable with each other in a way where improving as individuals is challenging.

On that last front I could understand "taking a break", with the intention of coming back together. But this isn't a break. There is no clear intention of coming back together. There's an active pursuit of other guys. He's already been seeing one for the last week (started under the rules of our open relationship). I knew about the guy, but not about the emotions involved.

I'm not sure that I could change to be what he wants. I'm not sure I'd want to entirely either. I want to be more successful. I want to be more driven. I want to improve my body and become muscular. But I don't want to be a meathead, I have no desire to exude machismo or false bravado. I'm also not sure how much a person can change. I'm naturally a passionate person, prone to mood swings... If a more stoic guy appeals to him I'm not sure how much I could actually become that?

The strange thing also, is the things that he likes about me... our connection, our intellectual and emotional compatibility... is possibly something he wouldn't find in the kind of guys he feels more passionately attracted to. So he's pretty confused... But if he does end up with me, doesn't want to be second guessing himself and his feelings towards me.
Re: IT is a time for choices. Your choices, now, not his  [message #67810 is a reply to message #67809] Tue, 18 June 2013 06:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13516



And what do you want to happen?



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: IT is a time for choices. Your choices, now, not his  [message #67812 is a reply to message #67810] Tue, 18 June 2013 07:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
saben is currently offline  saben   Japan

On fire!

Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537



I can't imagine marrying anyone else. If I could, if I had doubt, I wouldn't have proposed.

I don't want to wish him ill... If he does legitimately end up happier with another person........

But I can't imagine that happening, if our relationship is as real as I thought it was and he has said it is.

So... I want him to end up with me again. But I want him to want to be with me again. And think of me as the best possible choice he could make.
Re: IT is a time for choices. Your choices, now, not his  [message #67813 is a reply to message #67812] Tue, 18 June 2013 08:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13516



Then be the person he will love again. It may succeed. I'm not quite sure what you mean by the alpha male items. Are you speaking of domination or are you speaking of something else?



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: IT is a time for choices. Your choices, now, not his  [message #67814 is a reply to message #67813] Tue, 18 June 2013 14:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
saben is currently offline  saben   Japan

On fire!

Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537



He finds muscular bodies more attractive than my slim body. He finds a certain level of "macho" working class to be more sexy than my more academic nature. The quiet, self-assured confidence of a "man", rather than my rather more erratic moodiness...

Mostly just that.
Re: IT is a time for choices. Your choices, now, not his  [message #67815 is a reply to message #67814] Tue, 18 June 2013 16:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13516



I fear the allure of a bit of rough does rather cut down on your chances to keep him. If you feel t to be terminal have a decent man to man conversation with him and tell him, if it is true, that you would be honoured to be best man at any future wedding of his. And walk away as friends.i



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Long time....  [message #67816 is a reply to message #67275] Tue, 18 June 2013 17:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kitzyma is currently offline  Kitzyma   United Kingdom

Likes it here

Registered: March 2012
Messages: 215





I'm not saying this applies to the guy in question, but it should be considered that there are some people with the personality trait that doesn't allow him to be happily settled with one person. There are people who find it very difficult, maybe impossible, to confine themselves to one person because they're afraid they may miss out on something better.

It's akin to a gambling addiction in which the gambler must buy the ticket, play the card game, etc because he might miss out on the big win that will make everything perfect. The fact that he risks losing everything he already has and that intellectually he knows the odds are against him, doesn't stop him taking the risk.

This is an extreme form of the 'good' characteristic that may be called adventurousness, without which our species might still be confined to Africa.  It may be analagous to sickle cell disease, which is an extreme form of the beneficial characteristics which give resistance to malaria. Those who suffer from the extreme form may be considered to be paying the genetic price for characteristics which benefit the majority.

Risking a great deal to cross deserts or uncharted seas in the hope of finding a better life has brought great benefits, and also cost many lives. Those with extrene forms of the need to explore all options may not be able to settle down happily with one person. They may be able to stay in an open relationship if they believe that it keeps their options open, but that can lead to intolerable insecurity for their partner, who may decide that they would be better off giving up the relationship and becoming just friends - maybe friends 'with benefits'.

After all, there isn't just one person 'out there' with whom one can fall in love. If that were the case, one might never find that special love, or if found and lost, there could be no other afterward.



Re: Long time....  [message #67823 is a reply to message #67816] Thu, 20 June 2013 08:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
saben is currently offline  saben   Japan

On fire!

Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537



Kitz... actually for a long time in our relationship I was that guy that felt I could never settle down with one person. He's the one that was looking for the Disney romance.

I guess I'll just continue with life and see what happens. I guess I won't really feel I know where he stands until he marries someone else though. He agreed to get engaged to me, after all. So he's felt at least THAT close to me. It'd take following through with a marriage for me to believe that he has actually found something better than what he and I shared... On that day I will be happy for him, though. Because our relationship was a "gold standard", so if he's found a platinum one, well... so much the better for him

I can't picture the same outcome for myself. I'm not rejecting the possibility, but I feel that for me especially, it was once in a lifetime. He has unique insight into people that I've never encountered in anyone else and he had the ability to understand me in a way that even most of my close friends don't.
Re: Long time....  [message #67824 is a reply to message #67823] Thu, 20 June 2013 12:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13516



I can relate to your 'once in a lifetime' thoughts. For a long time I felt that I would never find love a second time. When it came it hit me as hard as the first love.

I have learned since that I may love more than one person at the same time, but that there is one that I choose not to let down by going with the others.



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Long time....  [message #67825 is a reply to message #67824] Thu, 20 June 2013 15:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
saben is currently offline  saben   Japan

On fire!

Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537



A little tangential, perhaps, but of curiosity how do you think you'd react if your wife was the one to leave you, despite you having chosen to stay loyal to her?
Re: Long time....  [message #67826 is a reply to message #67825] Thu, 20 June 2013 16:19 Go to previous message
timmy   United Kingdom

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13516



Sad that my best friend in the whole world since 1978 has chosen to go elsewhere, but, I only want her to be happy. I would be distressed beyond belief, but I would become accustomed to it.



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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