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You are here: Home > Forum > A Place of Safety > General Talk > Homosexuality is not lawful in India after all
Homosexuality is not lawful in India after all  [message #68180] Wed, 11 December 2013 08:48 Go to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

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Please see The Times of India, where the Supreme Court has reversed a 2009 High Court decision. This is obviosuly terrifying for the large number of Indian homosexuals now in open relationships. While the law may be being interpreted correctly, it is not a humane decision.



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Homosexuality is not lawful in India after all  [message #68183 is a reply to message #68180] Wed, 11 December 2013 22:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Smokr is currently offline  Smokr   United States

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That's pretty messed up. They exposed themselves when it wasn't a crime, and now they're guilty of criminal conduct for it.
I don't even know why we try anymore.



raysstories.com
Re: Homosexuality is not lawful in India after all  [message #68185 is a reply to message #68183] Thu, 12 December 2013 15:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Smokr is currently offline  Smokr   United States

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Oh, OZ....
http://news.yahoo.com/honeymoon-over-gay-couples-australia-o verturns-same-sex-022923661.html



raysstories.com
Re: Homosexuality is not lawful in India after all  [message #68189 is a reply to message #68180] Thu, 19 December 2013 07:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kitzyma is currently offline  Kitzyma   United Kingdom

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When we see injustice our righteous indignation makes us want to do something. There is a tendency to think that doing anything is better than doing nothing. However, doing certain things may actually make things worse. So it's a good idea to try to think things out before jumping into action.

For example, when protesting about anti-gay laws in India and thinking about campaigning against them, it's advisable to ask:
1) will the source of the protests make them counterproductive?
and
2) will the arguments used in the campaign actually be likely to work?

1) How would British MPs react if American wrote to them to lobby against our strict gun controls? How would US lawmakers react if Muslims around the world lobbied them to adopt Sharia laws? Foreigners putting pressure on Indian lawmakers to change their anti-gay laws may be counterproductive, especially as it was one set of foreigners (the British) who imposed the laws in the first place.

Rather than lobbying Indian lawmakers, wouldn't it be more productive to use our time and efforts to support, help, and advise the LGBT people in India so that they can effectively campaign inside their own country?

2) Adults program infants and children to find certain things disgusting. For example, in some parts of the world eating insects is perfectly normal, but just the thought of it makes me nauseous. There are good reasons why eating insects may be considered a good thing but no amount of logical argument will stop me feeling disgust at the mere thought of it.

Similarly, there are certain sexual activities (gay or straight) that I find distasteful, disturbing, or even disgusting. That's probably related to my programing when I was an infant. No logical argument could stop me feeling disgusted, but I am easily persuaded that what consenting adults do in private is none of my business. So if  Indian lawmakers believe that homosexual acts are unnatural and disgusting there is no point in trying to persuade them that those acts are normal and wholesome. Instead, the argument should be that the sexual activities of consenting adults in private are not appropriate subjects for legislation.
Re: Homosexuality is not lawful in India after all  [message #68190 is a reply to message #68189] Thu, 19 December 2013 08:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

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I see your point of view. However, the time has come for the world to tell those who do not adopt full human rights for all people that the only way to be a member of the civilised world is to adopt those rights.

Be in India for a moment, and be an open and out legal, law abiding gay man. Now watch as you become illegal again, and become subject to blackmail from your neighbour, who has always hated you because of some trivial reason.



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Homosexuality is not lawful in India after all  [message #68191 is a reply to message #68190] Thu, 19 December 2013 09:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kitzyma is currently offline  Kitzyma   United Kingdom

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Quote:
timmy wrote on Thu, 19 December 2013 08:50I see your point of view. However, the time has come for the world to tell those who do not adopt full human rights for all people that the only way to be a member of the civilised world is to adopt those rights.

--

And what if foreigners being confrontational and telling the what to do puts their backs up, sets them on the defensive, and makes them decide not to change because they don't want to be seen as being subservient by giving in external pressure?

India is a growing political and economic power in the world and it was civilised long before any of the Western nations who are criticising it now. In their view they are already a member of the civilised world and anyone trying to exclude them will be cutting off their nose to spite their face. Furthermore, it was the so-called 'civilised' British who imposed their own morality on India by making homosexuality illegal. After all, it gay sex was illegal here less than fifty years ago and we're only now about to get the full equality of gay marriage. So it may seem to them rather hypocritical for us to lecture them about it now and to try to impose our newly-revised morality on them.

Of course, I share the goal of getting rid of discrimination and having full human rights in India. I realise that there is a sense of injustice, frustration, and anger about the apparent reversal of the previous more tolerant situation. However, it is important to consider whether or not righteous indignation might lead to counterproductive actions.

Another thing to bear in mind is that the previous tolerant situation, in which it was illegal but the law wasn't enforced, was both illogical and in the long term unviable. The only way to have full rights is to change the law. While there law wasn't being enforced there was less incentive to change it. So maybe the change to a lack of toleration will have a long term beneficial effect in that it will bring about a more rapid change in the law.
Re: Homosexuality is not lawful in India after all  [message #68192 is a reply to message #68191] Thu, 19 December 2013 11:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

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So let it put their backs up. If they are going to be ruled by the queen-like foot stamp then they are with or without people commenting. They need to become more and more aware that the world is watching. At least it isn't a place where US anti gay missionaries are likely to be welcome, as they are in Russia



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Supreme Court of India  [message #68196 is a reply to message #68192] Thu, 19 December 2013 21:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kiwi is currently offline  kiwi   New Zealand

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Appropriate really.http://forum.iomfats.org/?t=getfile&id=1657&private=0

[Updated on: Thu, 19 December 2013 21:23]

Re: Supreme Court of India  [message #68197 is a reply to message #68196] Thu, 19 December 2013 21:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

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Oh bless them! No wonder they make cock-ups



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Supreme Court of India  [message #68198 is a reply to message #68197] Fri, 20 December 2013 05:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Smokr is currently offline  Smokr   United States

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Oh, that's just too freakin' precious!



raysstories.com
Re: Homosexuality is not lawful in India after all  [message #68205 is a reply to message #68191] Sat, 21 December 2013 10:42 Go to previous message
timmy   United Kingdom

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
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Uganda has been turned back from the death penalty by world indignation. Now we only face life imprisonment if we are stupid enough to visit this backward nation that still fears the wrath of some invented deity. This was also caused by the intervention of two nations. The first was the UK who colonised the world and imposed christianity on it and the morals of the oppressor, and the seocnd was the USA with its tub thumping evangelical brand of global colonisation.

As Uganda was recovering from the first it was swept by the second.

So I will do my best to intervene in India. And if that pisses some halfwit politicians off then it will piss them off. Alone we are useless. Together we are irresistible.

I correspond regularly with an Indian teenager who came out to his parents about 9 months ago having met me via the forum or the story section. Can I let him down by ignoring his plight?

[Updated on: Sat, 21 December 2013 10:43]




Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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