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You are here: Home > Forum > A Place of Safety > General Talk > What is a virgin?
What is a virgin?  [message #68564] Sun, 27 July 2014 00:30 Go to next message
Ray is currently offline  Ray   Australia

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Location: Sydney, Australia
Registered: July 2014
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My first girlfriend told me I was still a virgin because there is nothing I could do with boys that could "remove" it.
You see, it is defined for a boy as having sex with a girl, she said.
Maybe it was her desire for conquest. It got me thinking, and I still don't know.

What do you guys think? What has to happen for a boy to lose his virginity?
Must it be anal? Will oral do?
Does anybody have to come, and if so, who?
What if a boy just sucks another - is that enough for him, or just for the other?
What if penetrated anally, but with an object and not flesh?

I know it is not really important, which is why it could be entertaining.
I would be interested to now your thoughts.
Re: What is a virgin?  [message #68565 is a reply to message #68564] Sun, 27 July 2014 02:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Smokr is currently offline  Smokr   United States

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I'd say it's one of those subjective cases. There is no definitive answer until you reach a consensus at a boy having sex with a girl to his orgasm.
I'd say a guy isn't a virgin once he's had any orgasm physically caused by someone else, though anal virginity can be taken by flesh or object. Giving oral isn't losing virginity for the giver, though he can say he's no longer a total virgin.
Is a girl whose been anally active still a virgin if her hymen is intact?

[Updated on: Sun, 27 July 2014 02:54]




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Re: What is a virgin?  [message #68573 is a reply to message #68565] Wed, 30 July 2014 05:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dgt224 is currently offline  dgt224   United States

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Defining virginity is rather like debating how many angels can dance on the head of a pin -- a possibly interesting exercise of no fundamental importance.

Having said that, I would say that virginity disappears when one has had physical contact with another with the intention or effect of causing an orgasm. This is certainly at odds with some of the more legalistic religious definitions, and leaves at least a few unsatisfactory corner cases. E.g., what about a couple of adolescents who engage in intercourse but are ignorant of orgasms and are interrupted before making that discovery? (Like the angels on the pin, this seems likely to be a purely theoretical question, with no possibility of an empirical test.)

[Updated on: Wed, 30 July 2014 05:30]

Re: What is a virgin?  [message #68575 is a reply to message #68564] Wed, 30 July 2014 06:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

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I wonder why we prize virginity so highly that we even define it with a term? It dates back to the woman-as-property days.



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: What is a virgin?  [message #68580 is a reply to message #68575] Thu, 31 July 2014 02:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Smokr is currently offline  Smokr   United States

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A person has given oral or used hands on one person many times (or many persons) but has never been given any 'finish' by (any of) them, though this person has given them self a 'finish' more than once while giving oral or using hands on the other(s).
Is this person a virgin?

[Updated on: Thu, 31 July 2014 02:48]




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Re: What is a virgin?  [message #68586 is a reply to message #68564] Mon, 04 August 2014 14:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
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"Ray wrote on Sun, 27 July 2014 01:30"
My first girlfriend told me I was still a virgin because there is nothing I could do with boys that could "remove" it.
You see, it is defined for a boy as having sex with a girl, she said.
Maybe it was her desire for conquest. It got me thinking, and I still don't know.

What do you guys think? What has to happen for a boy to lose his virginity?
Must it be anal? Will oral do?
Does anybody have to come, and if so, who?
What if a boy just sucks another - is that enough for him, or just for the other?
What if penetrated anally, but with an object and not flesh?

I know it is not really important, which is why it could be entertaining.
I would be interested to now your thoughts.

--
I tend to think of virginity as a state of mind, boy or girl. I view any victim of sexual abuse as a virgin for their first genuinely consensual sexual encounter, for example.

Virginity is prized in girls from the days when a girl was her father's property, the more so since her value was higher with hymen intact than without hymen intact. In those days the hymen itself was the indicator in a girl of virginity. Tampons were regarded as sinful because they might break the hymen. Comfrey infusions were used to tighten the remains of a ruptured hymen and blood pouches were inserted by the girl on her wieding night in case there was any doubt.

So virginity is a commercial item, no more and no less.

We gay folk make a lot of anal and oral and manual virginities and treat them as independent, but, as a boy, virginity was not prized in history. We boys do not prize it either! The evidence is that we have no idea when we stop being a virgin. Is a circle jerk where another bloke's hand does the work losing virginity? And who cares?

I favour the "I am saving that act (whatever it is) for someone I love" approach.

I can't answer your question.



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: What is a virgin?  [message #68633 is a reply to message #68586] Tue, 30 September 2014 11:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ray is currently offline  Ray   Australia

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I have an unexpected update on this one.
Just watched a TV show here in Oz in which a guy said he went to a catholic co-ed school, and girls would only go anal with the boys because after this they were still virgins.
Don't you see what this means: all you gay boys are all "fuckin virgins"!

That was this hymen issue that some of you mentioned. Personally I never met one.
Re: What is a virgin?  [message #68634 is a reply to message #68633] Tue, 30 September 2014 16:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13496



"Ray wrote on Tue, 30 September 2014 12:44"
I have an unexpected update on this one.
Just watched a TV show here in Oz in which a guy said he went to a catholic co-ed school, and girls would only go anal with the boys because after this they were still virgins.
Don't you see what this means: all you gay boys are all "fuckin virgins"!

That was this hymen issue that some of you mentioned. Personally I never met one.

--
I come back to virginity being a state of mind, not a state of body. 



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: What is a virgin?  [message #68636 is a reply to message #68634] Wed, 01 October 2014 03:59 Go to previous message
Smokr is currently offline  Smokr   United States

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It's like pondering a drop of water on a morning flower.
If you do so for too long, the object of your devotions will vanish.
It's an unanswerable question, unless you tack on the relevant requisites/exclusions.
And answer the prerequisite question... which 'virginity' are you referencing? Or again, a matter of definition.
Is Brad a virgin if he's made-out and dry-humped for months in a consensual, rewarding, so-far-sexless relationship? Or does it require actual penetration? Will they both still be virgin on their wedding night, even though they've satisfied each other in clothing for months?
What if a fellow had complete impotence and/or removal, and could never penetrate or orgasm? When does his virginity end? Or is it a permanent state?
It's a flexible word to describe different states of body and/or mind. Vague and non-defined, except for short times when people with too much time on their hands get to debating it and come to some temporary, mutual, local consensus.
Would that be a locus consensus pro tem?

[Updated on: Wed, 01 October 2014 04:01]




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