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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
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When I say all are welcome here, I mean it.
I've just had a good meal. Prime Rib, roast potatoes, Broccoli, Parsnip, sugar snaps and mangetout, yorkshirepudding, and a more than over expensive bottle of wine. I've had a great evening. Watched a good film on TV
Why is one person feeling unwelcome?
That is a rhetorical question. A hint.
No sniping, please. Disagree, with decorum.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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mt
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Toe is in the water |
Registered: November 2002
Messages: 93
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It’s true that to some extent the cold monitor of the computer screen (ok well, hot if you’re using a CRT) will not convey the heat of welcome that would otherwise be normally felt in human contact but that is certainly not a reason why somebody should feel unwelcome, is it?
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Guest
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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No Message Body
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warren c. e. austin
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Likes it here |
Location: Toronto, Ontario, CANADA
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 247
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... take it as a given, that regardless you WILL ALWAYS BE, and are now, welcome to come forward here, either by joining the ranks of the "visible" here, or simply chosing as you hae done,to remain anonymous.
Your thoughts, your points-of-view, and your opinions can be shared freely here, and I sincerely would hope (unless you're rude or abusive) would in all likelihood never be subject to censure.
That is not what this place is all about.
"A Place of Safety" is about fellowship and sharing, in a caring, compassionate environment.
We neither judge, nor dissallow association here. One need not be Gay, Bisexual, Transgendered, Heterosexual, or otherwise, to find a home here. All we ask of those stopping by is for they to be equally as unjudgemental.
I tell you this, my own troubles not-with-standing, because I BELIEVE, and know this to be true.
DO NOT assume that because I have issues with my being here, that you would too.
I AM here; and whilst it may be a crisis that has prompted my return, I know regardless I will be welcomed.
So to will you be.
Warren C. E. Austin
"The Gay Deceiver"
Toronto, Canada
2003.02.05 11:16 Hrs EST
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Guest
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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This place is about so many things, some above board, some not. My opinions are thought by many to be attacks and that is not what I am about. It is not who I am.
As for judging, that my friend happens here in abundance. Whether you and others choose to admit it or not. It happens.
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warren c. e. austin
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Likes it here |
Location: Toronto, Ontario, CANADA
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 247
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I don't know where this is coming from, and I would never assume to be speaking for the Board Owner.
If you have issues and concerns, about the conduct the Members here, or your feeling "safe" here at all, please contact the Borad Owner "timmy" at the following e-Mail address:
"iomfats@hotmail.com"
I know he will take your contact seriously.
Warren C. E. Austin
"The Gay Deceiver"
Toronto, Canada
2003.02.05 12:42 Hrs EST
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trevor
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Really getting into it |
Registered: November 2002
Messages: 732
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Although I certainly agree with Warren, I do believe this can be a difficult line to walk. This is a place to tread softly on controversial topics.
If opinions are strongly worded and appear to be "aimed" at a group or person, or if they just plain aren't stated diplomatically enough, they might be perceived as attacks. It is a matter of readers' interpretation of the words, not the writer's intentions, which we of course can't truly know.
So, although all opinions are probably welcome unless they really are attacks or abuse, rude, etc, they may need to be stated very tactfully if they are especially controversial.
If people misunderstand your intention or motives and feel you are attacking, then yes, you will be judged. People who strongly disagree with your opinions may judge your logic, motives, or possibly even your sanity, but they, too, should be tactful and not state opinions in a way that appears to attack you personally.
If many opinions strongly differ from the vast majority of readers, one can resonably question the motive for posting them. For example, if I were to say "Homosexuality is sinful and all fags are going to hell. God hates faggots." then one would question my motives and probably judge me as a bigot, even if I am "simply" expressing an opinion and feel I am providing a public service. (Ouch - I hated writing that even as an example! Write me if you believe that quote even a bit and I'll try to set you straight - er - on the right path, that is!)
IMHO the primary purposes of the board are to support each other as individuals (which could include the occasional personal rant), learn more about each other, keep up to date on topics that affect many of us, and politely discuss relevant "issues."
If in doubt, we need to re-read the top of the main page. It has been carefully worded because we are all human, many have mistakenly hurt each other at one time or another, and written language doesn't always convey the meanings we intend.
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Dear Mr Matter, 
Of course we can't help to judge, we're only human after all. Humans judge. Hopefully though, nobody will ATTACK you here, and I have reason to believe that with pretty good authority! For starters, Timmy wouldn't allow it, and the people here are considerate.
Now, since you won't say who you are or what your opinions are, I can't decide if they in my opinion are attacks or not, but I THINK I'm a pretty open-minded person! I know for certain though I would not jump straight for the jugular if you choose to unmask yourself... Something I certainly hope you will do by the way.
Let us get to know you, THEN present your 'controversial' opinions. Chances are, you're not nearly as controversial as you think/fear you are!
In any case, even if you don't feel like coming out to us here, you just GOTTA email me and tell me what all this is about, because you've managed to intrigue me something awful! Besides, I could always need another friend! Try me. I'm a nice person they say.
-L
"But he that hath the steerage of my course,
direct my sail."
-William Shakespeare, Romeo and Juliet, Act One, Scene IV
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Guest
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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But I have heard about the feelings reguarding me in this place.
When I have something to say, when there is something bothering me, the subject becomes so contorted it is as if I had never posted at all.
It just doesnt matter any more.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
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A welcome is inside one's self. If he or she does nto feel it, then nothing we can say will make them feel welcome. It is a shame, but it has never been the case that everyone is going to feel universally welcome.
They are welcome to their point of view, and their opinion.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Guest
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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No Message Body
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
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No Message Body
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
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I was concerned, because "Not above board" implies "illegal" to me in the UK
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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...Because I have no idea who you are! I've not noticed any threads ragging on one guy in particular.
Anyway, I'd really like to get to know you, you know... Just mail me okay and we'll talk. PLEASE?
-L
"But he that hath the steerage of my course,
direct my sail."
-William Shakespeare, Romeo and Juliet, Act One, Scene IV
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smith
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On fire! |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 1095
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>>IMHO the primary purposes of the board are to support each other as individuals (which could include the occasional personal rant), learn more about each other, keep up to date on topics that affect many of us, and politely discuss relevant "issues."<< Trevor
That is exactly right........We all come here to see what everyone's been doing, share things we find that we think others would want to read, and try to discuss topics without shoving our opinions down anyone's throat.
I know I've read replies and my kneejerk reaction was to fire a nasty comment or two but I never do. I always figure that everyone's entitled to a bad day and it's just steam they're letting off.
Judging someone by their words alone is wrong. Not knowing the circumstances behind the words or the look in their eyes only leads to hurt.
I think it's clear that everyone who wants to can be here, post here and be part of the friendly atmosphere. The only rule is to use respect, kindness and more than a touch of wisdom before you click 'post'.
smith
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Plug
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Getting started |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 12
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>>Judging someone by their words alone is wrong. Not knowing the circumstances behind the words or the look in their eyes only leads to hurt ... The only rule is to use respect, kindness and more than a touch of wisdom before you click 'post'.<< smith.
That's all very well. Face to face, you can know the circumstances and see the look, and know it's meant to hurt. Here you can't. You've only got the words to go on. But I guess that like me alot of people here are vulnerable and thin-skinned. If your back's to the wall you have to assume the worst. You hit back, or you run away. It's self-defence.
I'm not complaining about my welcome here. You've been cool and there's obviously alot of caring. But I've been looking at previous pages and found quite alot of places where someone seemed to be trying to hurt. Did hurt. Didn't use 'respect, kindness and more than a touch of wisdom'. Put down, which is something I know all too well. If it was aimed at me I'd run a mile.
Maybe as a new boy here I'm talking out of turn. But it puzzles me and makes me cautious.
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e
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On fire! |
Location: currently So Cal
Registered: May 2002
Messages: 1179
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I would like to take this opportunity to welcome you, Plug. And no, you are not talking out of turn. There are disagreements here from time to time. Sometimes it's due to misunderstanding, sometimes it's because we simply disagree. I've seen remarks that appear to be written in anger or out of fear. Sometimes those remarks hurt whether they intend to or not. But in nearly every case, the hurtful remark is followed by a discussion that leads to an apology. I think we learn from such discussions. Never be afraid to say what you're thinking or feeling, but try to do it in a respectful manner. If someone does happen to get hurt, discuss it with them and try to work it out. We are not perfect. We do not always agree. If we were and if we did, this would be a very uninteresting place. Throw caution to the wind, or be as cautious as you like. But continue to be one of those who make this place interesting.
Think good thoughts,
e
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Guest
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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No Message Body
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smith
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On fire! |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 1095
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Sometimes we don't see things as they are...we see things as WE are. Ask for what you need from people......Works for me.
{{{{hugs}}}
It does matter, you know
smith
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Guest
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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And sometimes we see things exactly as they are, clearly, concisely. We see these things for all the right and also all the wrong in them.
When I did ask, no real notice was apparent. I thought it would work for me as well, but alas.
Well now, it truly doesn't matter, and no, I don't know smith.
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Plug
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Getting started |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 12
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Looks like I've turned up at an awkward time. Some of you say honestly there are disagreements, some say sweetly and sanctimoniusly it's all right really, some say there are no helping hands. Which to believe?
Surely the welcome lies in what you lay on. As I said, no complaint about how you welcomed me. But as someone said, that is just words. What's behind them? I've been reading back. People pontificating who know all the answers. Plenty of squabbles, very few apologies. People being hurt and abused and leaving. But plenty of help and care too. Just like life I suppose.
Do I stay? Suppose so. But seems you have thicker skins than me. If I am hurt, I'm off like a shot. Or see anyone else being hurt. I came here hoping to get away from that crap and find like-minded people.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
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We do fight sometimes. But people tend to find that thsi place has an open door. We recognise, no-one more than me as the person who puts his hand into his pocket and funds this site and board, that not everyone will find this place to their liking.
It can't possibly be to everyone's liking. Even paradise is not liked by everyone.
It does concern me when someone is hurting. And I've spoken to this person behind the scenes about his views without yet understanding them fully. I hope to in time, if he will tell me them overtime.
I think someone here said "It is all to do with the eyes". We cannot see them. We also have, sometimes, subtle language challenges. I use "above board" as a case in point. If I had not checked what he meant I would have taken grave and incorrect offence at what is in England an implication of at best shady dealing, and more usually illegal activity. That point has been cleared up with the generosity of spirit that I always associate with the person concerened.
I think that is a feature here. In general, but not always, we disagree assertively, not aggressively. In general rifts are healed. In general there is no sniping, bitchiness, nor backbiting. In general it is an adult place where yoinger and older members alike feel at liberty to express an opinion, and to express it well, EVEN if it is a controversial opinion.
It isn't an awkward time, not really. One of our number feels unwelcome. He has said so. If it is our problem then we are trying to fix it. If it is his problem he is atliberty to fix it. If a mixture then I see us as a loose collection of individuals walking towards him and hoping he will walk towards us.
It is not mandatory to be here for any of us. That is the point. It cannot be the perfect place for everyone who walks through the door. It just happens to be normally quiet, gentle, peaceful and helpful.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
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Why not ask again?
Not all posts are answered, as we all know. And no-one has the "duty" to answer. But ask again.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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warren c. e. austin
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Likes it here |
Location: Toronto, Ontario, CANADA
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 247
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... I simply should have kept my damn trap shut, and ignored this thread.
When I answered our friend [It Doesn't Matter]'s original *post* in this thread I did not expect another controversy to ensue over it.
What I have said to him, I'll say again to you.
EVERYONE IS WELCOME HERE!
Even me.
Whether I "feel" welcome here, or not, is an issue I alone have to deal with. Why I may feel alienated is something within myself, and not especially any one thing that others here could, or could not have done, to alleviate that.
In my seasonal greeting to the Board, I mention having a friend who calls A Place of Safety his home. It's wonderful that he is able to do so. I have often envied him that. I'm also especially heartened that all here have embraced him as they have, and as they do others, and through their actions contribute to the overall feelings of well-being that encourages my friend to feel as he does.
I'm hoping you'll be able to find, for yourself, whatever it is that makes it possible for him, and that you too will one day be able, like him in his certainty, to call A Place of Safety your "home" as well.
Warren C. E. Austin
"The Gay Deceiver"
Toronto, Canada
2003.02.06 11:31 Hrs EST
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trevor
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Really getting into it |
Registered: November 2002
Messages: 732
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control our feelings. Only we have the ability to control our own reactions - free will of emotion, if you will.
Plug - like a family or community, we have our share of disagreements or people feeling hurt, but we generally "take care of each other" as well as we can. Some of that is via private messages or other boards, so it may not all be apparent.
I think for the most part we are pretty honest and have "fair" disagreements, though, and by posting those here rather than e-mailing or IM, others can weigh-in, or step in, as appropriate.
Some wounds might be over-reaction or taking things too personally, some are misunderstandings. That can happen any time you interact with others, and especially since we have such a wonderful and interesting variety of "characters" here.
IDM - I can't tell you how many times I've read a post and just couldn't think of anything useful to say, but wanted to say SOMETHING. Sometimes the poster just wants a simple awknowledgement of their pain, others find a "Sorry, *HUGS*" reply totally useless, still others want to vent without further discussion, and the poster's need may be entirely dependant upon their mood. Heck, they may "want" one thing and "need" another. Forgive us when we can't read between the lines - personally I need explicit (and no, I'm not talking about timmy's stories this time!)
If you post something and don't get a response, try e-mailing one or two of the more vocal members like me who just seem to enjoy typing!
If you, as an individual, didn't matter, we wouldn't keep replying. Honest - we don't like typing THAT much.
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e
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On fire! |
Location: currently So Cal
Registered: May 2002
Messages: 1179
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I certainly hope that you do stay and that you do contribute, even it it means we disagree from time to time. Sometimes we do pontificate and think we know all the answers. Of that I know I AM GUILTY. I also know that I do not know all the answers, even though I may want to sound like I do.
I'll agree that there are plenty of squabbles, but disagree in that I've seen plenty of apologies. There have also been plenty of people who have been hurt and who have left. But many who have left, have also returned. I think you will find like-minded people here, whatever your mind is like. You will also find some not-so-like-minded people here. You will find people that you like, and people that you dislike. Certainly no one can expect to agree with or like everyone. And yes, there will also be times when someone's comments will hurt. That will happen no matter where you are. There are also times when you will not get the response you desire or you may get no response at all. Other times you may get more response and support than you ever thought possible.
The beauty of this place is that it is safe to say that you are hurt or disappointed. I think that is why you see so many of us who have said it. The atmosphere here is such that we can express our thoughts and our feelings without having to worry about being attacked. Timmy is pretty quick to step in and put an end to abuse and attacks. That is what makes this a safe place. And I think that is what makes us keep coming back.
Think good thoughts,
e
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Plug
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Getting started |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 12
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Thanks, especially to Trevor and e for being so honest. I accept that hurts can be cleared up privately, behind the scenes, which satisfies the person hurt. But isn't that one of the problems? It makes it look as if there isn't justice here. Justice has to be seen to be done. If it's not visible and the "public" are uneasy, the "public" remain uneasy. I guess that's what "It doesn't matter" meant by "Corrective surgery.... above board = plainly stated...."
But OK, I'll give it a whirl. Suck it and see ...
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Guest
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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Over the past year or more, I have come to realize that in this "Place of Safety" either you are a part of the inner circle or you are not.
In other words, unless you are less than sixteen years old than you are not taken seriously.
This is not only my perception as it has been discussed at length in other arenas.
Perhaps what it all boils down to is the realization that I have outlived my usefulness. I am tired of being looked upon as the old fool with all his none too popular opinions.
Good night.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
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The sole person less that 16 that I know here is smith. And he feels his views are not taken seriously because he is treated as "a sweet kid who knows nothing anbd has cute opinions." And he won't be under 16 much longer.
Almost everyone here is in his twenties or later.
Now, "the old fool with his none too popular opinions" is a challenging title to choose for one's internal perception of external image. I can't see it of you myself. I suspect that when you reveal yourself no-one else here wil be able to see it. I mean the "old fool" part.
Some of your opinions are not popular. I don't see what's wrong with that, not in the slightest. All I ever ask is that an opinion is expressed with courtesy and regard for everyone else. (And yes I have transgressed that rule myself, more than once.) I ask for replies to be expressed in the same manner when a challenging opinion is expressed. In other words "Be controversial or less than popular, but so so as a gentleman".
So, for what it is worth, you are not an old fool. And you have expressed in the past and will express again an opinion which is less than popular (well will in future if you post further, I mean,and post as yourself). The thing is, I truly do not see the problem with the way you are treated, just with your perception of it.
What I can see is that you are very angry. I wish that were not so, but I can see it so clearly. I am certain that nothing here has been created to make you angry. I am equally certain that disputes between individuals may exist here, start here, continue here, or be solved here. All of that I see as the healthy ebb and flow of human relations.
The one thing I am not going to do is to "beg you to stay". You see I do care. I care a lot. But I care about you as a person and as a friend. I'd enjoy your remaining, but I will not go into mourning if you leave. I don't have the emotional time to devote to it. And begging and stuff will demean you and me together.
Stay or leave, and make it a good decision either way.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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e
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On fire! |
Location: currently So Cal
Registered: May 2002
Messages: 1179
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When disputes appear on the board and are settled privately, it does leave "the public" to think that matters are not resolved. However, not all disputes can, or should, be resolved in public. It is up to those who take issue to decide what forum is best for resolution.
Personally, I don't have much "off board" communication with others here. I do exchange email on occasion, but generally prefer to post my thoughts here on the board for the public. That includes apologies whenever they are necessary.
Not everyone can, or will, do that and it is for them to decide. The rest of us simply need to allow them to conduct their personal business themselves, whether it be in public or in private.
I, for one, am glad you will "give it a whirl."
Think good thoughts,
e
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robert bryce
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Really getting into it |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 414
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just my two nickles guys but ya all take yourselves too seriously. look at this way--you all could have been born straight or perhaps female. then you all would really have something to bitch about...hehehehe and another he.So stop bitching Timmy might just turn you all into frogs. Frog soup is just sooooooooooooooooooooo good. robert
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Goto Forum:
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] 
A Place of Safety
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Hint! 
I have no idea who you are ... 
Regarding judging... 
nope. my email is its_onlyme@hotmail.com 
I kinda argue with that........... 
"Plug", perhaps once more ... 