A Place of Safety
I expect simple behaviours here. Friendship, and love.
Any advice should be from the perspective of the person asking, not the person giving!
We have had to make new membership moderated to combat the huge number of spammers who register
















You are here: Home > Forum > A Place of Safety > General Talk > Gay Animals
 () 1 Vote
icon3.gif Gay Animals  [message #2121] Wed, 24 April 2002 16:40 Go to next message
tim is currently offline  tim   United Kingdom

Really getting into it
Location: UK, West of London in Ber...
Registered: February 2002
Messages: 842



Now don't laugh. I'm serious.

UK Channle 4 TV has run a serious programme whcih documents in SHEEP that a ram can be hetero or homosexual, and wileven mate with a ram instead of a ewe on heat.

The brains have a difference in the area that controls sexual arousal, but are fully developed an dnot rratrded adult ram brains. The arousal centre is simply not testosterone sensitive, and the "gay ram" is aroused by males not by females.

The "gay ram" has a male brain with female arousal characteristics.

The study is not definitive, but was interesting.

The programme also highlighted the fact that homosexual activity exists in the wild as a common and natural activity and is EDITTED OUT of wildlife programmes so that it can be deenioed. Much footage was shown of male/male and female/female sexual activity in birds, and land and water based mamals
Interesting Book  [message #2125 is a reply to message #2121] Wed, 24 April 2002 18:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
richard lyon is currently offline  richard lyon   United States

Toe is in the water
Location: San Francisco
Registered: February 2002
Messages: 55



A very interesting book on this topic is:

Biological Exuberance, Animal Homosexuality and Natural Diversity, by Bruce Bagemihil, Stonewall Inn Editions.

It is somewhat technical but entirely readable without a scientific background.

Richard
Personal reaction  [message #2129 is a reply to message #2121] Thu, 25 April 2002 15:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
tim is currently offline  tim   United Kingdom

Really getting into it
Location: UK, West of London in Ber...
Registered: February 2002
Messages: 842



I am allowed to feel no guilt for being gay. I am as I am because I could be no other way.

But the people who tried to cure gay men and women? What of them? And those who failed to survive the cures? What of them?
Re: Personal reaction  [message #2141 is a reply to message #2129] Sun, 28 April 2002 00:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
teddybear is currently offline  teddybear   Canada

Getting started
Location: Canada
Registered: April 2002
Messages: 2



Well having been there and recovered from the mental rape that I was subject to my feelings now are simple I think that those involved are a pityfull group that are even unsure of thenselves!

That some even call themselves "Cristian" and spout hate and warped "views" from the bible shows just how nasty they can be ...

And how dangerous they can be to guys who are unsure of themselves, I wonder just how many suicides a year are down to this?

Love N Hugs
Teddybear
This is the thread related to smith's post  [message #15470 is a reply to message #2121] Fri, 26 September 2003 18:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13458



http://forum.iomfats.org/w-agora/index.php?site=forumiomfatsorg&bn=forumiomfatsorg_placeofsafety&key=1064594581&action=view

[Updated on: Fri, 26 September 2003 18:14]




Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Personal reaction  [message #15490 is a reply to message #2141] Fri, 26 September 2003 21:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
robert bryce is currently offline  robert bryce   United States

Really getting into it

Registered: January 1970
Messages: 414



CDC out of Atlanta estimates over 1700 teens suicide each year and a large percentage take their lives over sexual matters...In the US alone,some 12,000 boys are kicked out of their homes each year as a result of parents finding out the boys are gay....Sad aint it...The FBI reports some 100 boys in school are murdered because their peers found out they were gay....rob
icon9.gif Re: Personal reaction  [message #15530 is a reply to message #15490] Fri, 26 September 2003 22:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
yourbestgayfriend is currently offline  yourbestgayfriend   United States

Likes it here
Location: Appleton, Wisconsin, USA
Registered: August 2003
Messages: 214




rob, thank you for that statement... and all the previous....

and if I may...

I believe we are born gay. Although I lived an alternate (straight) lifestyle for a long time, I always deep down desired a man and that relationship. No one put that in me but God Himself.

In light of this... and knowing that current Christian teaching says we are going to burn in hell for being gay...

Can I then assume that all those born with birth defects, with different sizes of appendages, that those born with diseases... will burn in hell too???

Honestly, this scares me very much... and sounds like one group will accept only the 'Perfect Society.' And where have we heard that from?????? Seems to me that WWII dick was found dead, huh????

By the way... in respect of you in the UK... my dad was stationed there in WWII, and flew 35 B-17 missions over Germany in 1943. And while we all hate war, I am very proud of him and what he did to help stop the Nazi spread in this world...

Please tell me if i have overstepped my bounds here. I just feel very strongly about the subject matter and feel we should be accepted because we live.... not because of where we sleep...

BamBam :'-( :'-(



Celebrate your life... embrace your love... Become intimate with your place in forever !!!
icon6.gif Re: Personal reaction  [message #15538 is a reply to message #15530] Sat, 27 September 2003 04:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
robert bryce is currently offline  robert bryce   United States

Really getting into it

Registered: January 1970
Messages: 414



you just keep on keeping on..The Britts need from time to time to be reminded that America helped save the world..Their memory needs to be refreshed..Now if only we could bring France into the 22nd century... rob
This research is gaining scientific acceptance  [message #20190 is a reply to message #2121] Thu, 18 March 2004 21:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13458



Biology behind homosexuality in sheep, study confirms
OHSU researchers show brain anatomy, hormone production may be cause
PORTLAND, Ore. – Researchers in the Oregon Health & Science
University School of Medicine have confirmed that a male sheep's
preference for same-sex partners has biological underpinnings.
A study published in the February issue of the journal Endocrinology
demonstrates that not only are certain groups of cells different
between genders in a part of the sheep brain controlling sexual
behavior, but brain anatomy and hormone production may determine
whether adult rams prefer other rams over ewes.

"This particular study, along with others, strongly suggests that
sexual preference is biologically determined in animals, and
possibly in humans," said the study's lead author, Charles E.
Roselli, Ph.D., professor in the Department of Physiology and
Pharmacology, OHSU School of Medicine. "The hope is that the study
of these brain differences will provide clues to the processes
involved in the development and regulation of heterosexual, as well
as homosexual, behavior."

The results lend credence to previous studies in humans that
described anatomical differences between the brains of heterosexual
men and homosexual men, as well as sexually unique versions of the
same cluster of brain cells in males and females.

"Same-sex attraction is widespread across many different species."
said Roselli, whose laboratory collaborated with the Department of
Animal Sciences at Oregon State University and the USDA Agricultural
Research Service's U.S. Sheep Experiment Station in Dubois, Idaho.

Kay Larkin, Ph.D., an OHSU electron microscopist who performed
laboratory analysis for the study, said scientists now have a marker
that points to whether a ram may prefer other rams over ewes.

"There's a difference in the brain that is correlated with partner
preference rather than gender of the animal you're looking at," she
said.

About 8 percent of domestic rams display preferences for other males
as sexual partners. Scientists don't believe it's related to
dominance or flock hierarchy; rather, their typical motor pattern
for intercourse is merely directed at rams instead of ewes.

"They're one of the few species that have been systematically
studied, so we're able to do very careful and controlled experiments
on sheep," Roselli said. "We used rams that had consistently shown
exclusive sexual preference for other rams when they were given a
choice between rams and ewes."

The study examined 27 adult, 4-year-old sheep of mixed Western
breeds reared at the U.S. Sheep Experiment Station. They included
eight male sheep exhibiting a female mate preference – female-
oriented rams – nine male-oriented rams and 10 ewes.

OHSU researchers discovered an irregularly shaped, densely packed
cluster of nerve cells in the hypothalamus of the sheep brain, which
they named the ovine sexually dimorphic nucleus or oSDN because it
is a different size in rams than in ewes. The hypothalamus is the
part of the brain that controls metabolic activities and
reproductive functions.

The oSDN in rams that preferred females was "significantly" larger
and contained more neurons than in male-oriented rams and ewes. In
addition, the oSDN of the female-oriented rams expressed higher
levels of aromatase, a substance that converts testosterone to
estradiol so the androgen hormone can facilitate typical male sexual
behaviors. Aromatase expression was no different between male-
oriented rams and ewes.

The study was the first to demonstrate an association between
natural variations in sexual partner preferences and brain structure
in nonhuman animals.

The Endocrinology study is part of a five-year, OHSU-led effort
funded through 2008 by the National Center for Research Resources, a
component of the National Institutes of Health. Scientists will work
to further characterize the rams' behavior and study when during
development these differences arise. "We do have some evidence the
nucleus is sexually dimorphic in late gestation," Roselli said.

They would also like to know whether sexual preferences can be
altered by manipulating the prenatal hormone environment, such as by
using drugs to prevent the actions of androgen in the fetal sheep
brain.

In collaboration with geneticists at UCLA, Roselli has begun to
study possible differences in gene expression between brains of male-
oriented and female-oriented rams.

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2004-03/ohs-bbh030804.php



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: This research is gaining scientific acceptance  [message #20193 is a reply to message #20190] Fri, 19 March 2004 03:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
david in hong kong is currently offline  david in hong kong   United States

On fire!
Location: American working in Thail...
Registered: February 2002
Messages: 1101




Hi Richard!!!! Long time! And welcome, Teddy Bear!

My fear in all this new research is that a conservative government can still try for another "cure", and this time a chemical cure subjected towards embryos.

We all need to give money and time to help organizations militant on our behalf, and should never be complacent about what could happen in the future...



"Always forgive your enemies...nothing annoys them quite so much." Oscar Wilde
icon4.gif I feel offended just byknowing this research is taking place  [message #20195 is a reply to message #20190] Fri, 19 March 2004 12:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lenny is currently offline  lenny   Sweden

On fire!
Location: Far Away
Registered: March 2002
Messages: 1755




Why are they even doing this? There can't POSSIBLY be any point in knowing what makes SHEEP "gay". I shouldn't call them even "gay" (within quotes), because sheep seem incapable of expressing higher emotions - affection, love etc - which is a major part in human homosexuality. Not just which sex you poke with your poker, it's not all about SEX in homoxexuality, a point which seems largely lost on the straight and narrowminded part of the population.

Like I said, it offends me they're digging around in this subject matter, because after they've discovered wether fetal hormone exposure can alter sexuality of the newborn sheep, they'll want to develop a cure, I'm sure of it. It is the next logical step after all, and if it's one thing we've learned it is that scientists can always be trusted to take the next logical step wether it's ethical or not.

Who here wants to be cured? Who here even feels sick? I say it's our society that's sick; it's a sign of non-acceptance this research is taking place. Scientists and many others can't accept that some people simply ARE gay, no, they have to dig around until they find the reason for it - and logically - fix it. This is definitely not progress and I feel mightily tempted to call for a ban of such research. I know that's irrational, but like I said, I'm offended. Deeply so, and offended people aren't always rational. That's my reaction anyway.


And besides, what about the lesbian sheep, huh? It's typical of our male-schauvinistic society to only research individuals with penises! ( Very Happy )


>Sad
-L



"But he that hath the steerage of my course,
direct my sail."

-William Shakespeare, Romeo and Juliet, Act One, Scene IV
This post was bumped from years ago  [message #20197 is a reply to message #20193] Fri, 19 March 2004 12:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
saben is currently offline  saben   Japan

On fire!

Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537



Richard and Teddy Bear haven't actually come back recently Wink



Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
I was wondering about the lesbian sheep, too  [message #20198 is a reply to message #20195] Fri, 19 March 2004 13:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
saben is currently offline  saben   Japan

On fire!

Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537



I agree that it is a little sexist to only be doing the research with males, I guess ewes just have a little trouble wearing strap ons!

Even though I agree that humans experience higher emotions than sheep I still think attraction and sexual preference are pretty much related, so proving the science behind sheep that prefer male-male sex isn't all that far from proving the science behind men that prefer male-male marriage (or relationship). There are maybe some people that choose to live a gay lifestyle even though they do not feel sexually drawn to other males, but I would say that this would be a small minority. I mean, scientists have always used animals as cannon fodder for scientific testing, but if the theory is true with sheep then it is probably fairly similar with humans, too.

I definitely don't want to be cured, but most of the people that are against homosexuality are also against genetic modification. With luck they won't be too hypocritcal and allow for the curing of homosexuality in embryos whilst children are still born with life crippling defects. I can imagine that most of the people doing this research are in fact not homophobic themselves.

Personally I am a bit cautious about the research, but I do support it tentatively. I mean, we have been going on faith for so many years that sexuality is a biological thing, without very much real research going in to the matter. I mean, just like any scientific theory, it is good to have some more concrete evidence behind things, isn't it? Let's just hope it turns out for the better rather than the worse, though!



Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
Odd how different our reactionms can be  [message #20200 is a reply to message #20195] Fri, 19 March 2004 17:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13458



First the "only research on males" element. In general only males exhibit penetrative mating behaviour. They are thus easy to select as a styudy group, since a ram who attempts to mate with another ram is rather self selecting for the study.

As to understanding why I am gay, I happen to want to understand it. And i did feel as if I was sick when I found out. And I might even have wanted to be cured, except the cures then were not a cure at all. But, to me, the point is that the studies show that we are biologically different from the balance of the population. I can cope easily with biological differences.

And the idea of a cure? Well what if some factor we had been exposed top in the womb made us gay? I woudl want to elimintae that factor for any unconceived child of mine. Good parenting indicates thsi to be right. After all, wise women no longer smoke while pregnant.

If this research leads to unethical areas like eugenics, well that is a different matter. But it seems to be leading towards a genuine understanding, not a eugenic programme



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: I feel offended just byknowing this research is taking place  [message #20204 is a reply to message #20195] Fri, 19 March 2004 18:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
e is currently offline  e   United States

On fire!
Location: currently So Cal
Registered: May 2002
Messages: 1179



I think that finding a genetic basis for homosexuality would help to VALIDATE us. One of the biggest arguments used to INVALIDATE our sexuality is that we CHOOSE to be this way and that we can choose not to be gay if we want to. But if there is a gay gene, that entire argument goes away. In fact, if there is a gay gene it would be easy enough to say that God INTENDED for some people to be gay, otherwise why would he create the gene? If it's true, it would take a lot of the wind out of those arguments. It may not get rid of all the bigotry and hatred, but it would show it for what it is.

No doubt that there would be some who would seek to exploit this research and try to "find a cure." There are always those who will seek to force everybody to be just like them. Just something we'll have to guard against.

Think good thoughts,
e
Now there are studies of human brains  [message #76551 is a reply to message #20204] Thu, 20 February 2020 13:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13458



This New Scientist article is interesting



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Gay Animals  [message #76552 is a reply to message #2121] Fri, 21 February 2020 00:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
luvtwinks is currently offline  luvtwinks   United States

Likes it here

Registered: August 2018
Messages: 129



Wow. This thread is potentially older than its readers! 😯
Re: Gay Animals  [message #76553 is a reply to message #76552] Fri, 21 February 2020 01:23 Go to previous message
The Composer is currently offline  The Composer   United Kingdom

Toe is in the water

Registered: September 2018
Messages: 82



Speak for yourself!
Previous Topic: In Memoriam
Next Topic: If a top likes a bottom to be tight....
Goto Forum: