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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13772
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"American_Alex wrote on Sun, 29 March 2020 15:36"One trait I've noticed about Roman Catholics is their ability to completely disregard the teachings of their leaders. It seems that 2 millenia of history binds them together more than silly, sexually frustrated clergy does. In most other denominations, if you don't believe the leadership, you leave that denomination. Aside from a fairly large number of fallen catholics joining the Episcopal church (and then, usually joining 'high' Episcopal congregations), it just doesn't mappen much.
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One key word you have used in your last sentence may explain this - 'fallen'.
It must be a Herculean task to extract one's self from the clinging mire of Roman Catholic sin and eternal damnation. There must be a nagging doubt "What if they are right? What if I am damned unless I accept it all?" This doubt obtains because they have long been taught not to think. Remember how short a time ago it was that their Mass was in Latin? What number of Roman Catholics understand Latin?
By making sure the worship was in a tongue almost no-one could understand it was left to the clergy to translate their deity's will. This they did with a relish, inventing purgatory, selling Indulgences, selling relics and more. "Do this and you will sit on the right hand of god!" I refuse to use capital letters for the lying, cheating, Roman Catholic deity.
Their deity must be a lie and a cheat, for it is said to be all knowing and all powerful. "God knows you masturbated this morning, Johnny! That will be three Hail Mary's. On your knees now, here in the privacy of the vestry is just fine."
[Updated on: Sun, 29 March 2020 15:56]
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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All of which makes the case about moving to a metaphorical understanding (vs. literalistic) if one remains in a religion, and/or a personal spirituality which liberates the person from all the negatives.
Another quote from Carl Sagan: "Spirit comes from the Latin word 'to breathe'. What we breathe is air, which is certainly matter, however thin. Despite usage to the contrary, there is no necessary implication in the word 'spiritual' that we are talking of anything other than matter (including the matter of which the brain is made), or anything outside the realm of science. On occasion, I will feel free to use the word. Science is not only compatible with spirituality; it is a profound source of spirituality. When we recognize our place in an immensity of light-years and in the passage of ages, when we grasp the intricacy, beauty, and subtlety of life, then that soaring feeling, that sense of elation and humility combined, is surely spiritual"
To the question Timmy raised a few posts back abour Rev. David and where he is headed, he's early in a journey, but this is where he's headed!
Bensiamin
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American_Alex
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Toe is in the water |
Location: New York, upstate
Registered: October 2017
Messages: 98
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I was using "fallen" ironically, being that seems to be the descriptor of choice used by the RC church. And Latin masses are still performed at some congregations around my area. There are also dozens of church-latin jokes as well (Q: What is god's phone number? A: Espiritu-2220!). At least people who speak romance languages can understand a bit of the Latin services...
I understand that in Eastern Orthodoxy, there is a similar divide between the spoken dialect and 'church Slavonic'. I once observed a Tibetan Buddhist ceremony, and all the caucasian buddhists there were chanting in Tibetan. I wonder if any of them really spoke the language?
"Able was I ere I saw Elba"
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Some Observations about LGB Suicide
Chapters 10 and 11 of The Food of Love deal with a suicide, and that is not only tragic, but both a shocking and painful event to experience and even to read about. It's an important reality for LGB youth, and the data that Spencer Sullivan, the attorney, shared with Will's parents is based on earlier publications, but sadly it has not changed much for the time range of more recent studies (from 2010 to 2016).
- Suicide is the 2nd leading cause of death among young people ages 10 to 24.
- LGB youth seriously contemplate suicide at almost three times the rate of heterosexual youth.
- LGB youth are almost five times as likely to have attempted suicide compared to heterosexual youth.
- Of all the suicide attempts made by youth, LGB youth suicide attempts were almost five times as likely to require medical treatment than those of heterosexual youth.
- LGB youth who come from highly rejecting families are 8.4 times as likely to have attempted suicide as LGB peers who reported no or low levels of family rejection.
- 1 out of 6 students nationwide (grades 912) seriously considered suicide in the past year.
- Each episode of LGBT victimization, such as physical or verbal harassment or abuse, increases the likelihood of self-harming behavior by 2.5 times on average.
There is also an interesting (single) outlier study published in 2010 that began by assessing mental disorders among LGBT youth and then dove down to assess suicide tendencies. It found them no higher than non-LGBT youth, but found bisexual youths had lower levels of mental disorders compared with gay and lesbian participants in the study. Perhaps this is an indicator of an improving trend as homosexuality has been decriminalized, is better understood, and different expressions of human sexuality are less stigmatized in the general society (excluding religion, of course!).
The data point that screamed out at me, which I see as one sitting within the context of religious intolerance is the one about LGB youth from highly rejecting families. At 8.4 times more likely to have attempted suicide than their LGB peers who no not experienced family rejection, this begs the question "what is the source of that family rejection," and I believe most of it comes from religion, and thus this part of the story.
The Trevor Project fact sheet, with references, is attached. Any readers with knowledge in this area are encouraged to share and comment!
Bensiamin
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JCDII
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Getting started |
Location: Poughkeepsie, NY USA
Registered: October 2016
Messages: 17
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That was pretty heavy! And true...I was brought up in a catholic grammar school as most of my extended family was.
And the guilt was there too! and the rote memorization of the catechism...ugh. What happened to all those people who
ate meat on Fridays when all of a sudden, it's not a sin anymore? The church(es) are all about big busine$$.
I really wanted to have this be a lighter note (since I have the time!) and talk about the Moody Blues.
Just got done reading Chapter 11 and had to break out my Time Traveler discs to follow along with the
words. How powerful! Great job Ben!
Used to listen to Our Children's Children's Children constantly. watching and waiting for a friend to play with, why have I been alone so long....
You have used this album to bring Will out of his depression in a way that makes so much sense with their lyrics!
It's almost like what they did with Mama Mia and created a play and movie with ABBA Lyrics! Nice job, looking forward to rest of the story!
thanks - John
[Updated on: Wed, 01 April 2020 21:47] |
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John: thanks for the kind words. I'm pleased to have a serious Moody Blues fan pass favorable judgment on the use of the songs as the tool to bring Will out of his dark place.
In the spirit of credit where credit is due, this only happened because of c_m who was more than a beta reader. I'm a lifelong Moody Blues fan, but admit it was limited to the main hits. c_m is a much more serious fan of the music and the lyrics, and it was he that suggested the songs about friendship to consider. I'll take credit for doing the interpreting, but it never would have happened without that suggestion on the front end.
The successful use of the songs, in my mind at least, makes the case for Shakespeare's perceptive turn of phrase about music being the food of love, from whence cometh the title of volue three.
Bensiamin
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American_Alex
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Toe is in the water |
Location: New York, upstate
Registered: October 2017
Messages: 98
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I'm looking forward to seeing how they take listening to Elvis Costello. Up until now, pretty much every popular song mentioned was from a group with 1 foot still deeply rooted in 1960's culture. Now, suddenly comes an angry, neurotic guy raging about frigid women and fascists. I remember seeing him on his first American tour (late 1978); he stormed on stage, played about 8 tunes back-to-back, then stormed off stage after less than an hour. Then trew a punch at a guy looking for an autograph at a club about an hour later. It was glorious!
[Updated on: Sat, 04 April 2020 13:35]
"Able was I ere I saw Elba"
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You'll recall that David and Jackson met and fell in love in Oregon.
WHAT A STATE!
Bensiamin
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So, I feel the need to "fess up" about Chapter 19 and the "Socks" story. It's also one of those "funny stories" kind of things.
There's an Epilogue coming in the next few days, and that wraps up Volume 3 (The Food of Love) of Revelation & Redemption (you do remember that is the name of the three volume series, right?).
At any rate, in my mind as I wrote it, I was done at the end of Chapter 18, and didn't feel the need to wrap up the "Will and Ron" details any more than the "Susan and Ellen" details or the "Gary and Lois" details. Then along came the "Socks" challenge, and that got the wheels turning, and out came a story...and I sent it in to Timmy before the cut off date...and then like a great publisher and editor, he came back to me and said, "this is an important part of the story that you've left out."
Then, as fortune would have it, the close date for "Socks" slipped, and Timmy (magician that he is) included it both as a story challenge submission and put it up as Chapter 19. With due humility, I bow to his judgement and concede he was right and that I'd missed something important in moving into the conclusion of this series of stories.
To wit, I hope reading "Socks, Friends & Lovers" didn't somehow ruin the story for those not reading the installments in a timely manner, and correspondingly if it did a decent job of resolving the Will and Ron characters, then that's all to Timmy!
And, finally, it just goes to show that there's much more to running this gay fiction website than just administering and posting stories!
I hope you enjoyed the series, though there were undoubtedly some significant twists and turns in Volume 3!
Bensiamin
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Heroes in the time of Coronavirus
Those of you that read The Food of Love will recall that Jackson and Will played around with an acoustic version of Bowie's Heroes prior to Will being interviewed by Robert Atkins when he was seeking admission to college and into choir and glee club.
Neil Finn, the newest member of Fleetwood Mac recently posted a very cool acoustic cover of Heroes. Here's the link:
YouTube Link
[Updated on: Thu, 23 April 2020 15:09]
Bensiamin
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Due to the fact that for my own reasons I almost never read any chapters of a story until the story is complete I just today finished reading "The Food of Love". I just want to compliment Ben on this latest tale in the Jackson and David saga. It's the best one yet, IMHO 
“There's no grays, only white that's got grubby. I'm surprised you don't know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That's what sin is.” - Terry Pratchett
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ivor slipper
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Likes it here |
Registered: September 2013
Messages: 128
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I couldn't find a thread on the second book of Bensiamin's trilogy, so I hope he won't mind me adding this here.
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Ivor;
I love it, as would Bowie. I'll add it to the We Could Be Heroes thread too!
Bensiamin
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I just checked in with Jackson and David, and they're holding their own through this pandemic. They are more concerned about where we are as a country, and when pressed, Jackson recalled the Portland Gay Men's Chorus rendition of the Fifth Dimension's "Aquarius." Remember that? I heard the Fifth Dimension perform it live while in college in 1969!
His point was simply that this is the vibe we need to rediscover and get back to:
When the moon is in the Seventh House
And Jupiter aligns with Mars
Then peace will guide the planets
And love will steer the stars
Harmony and understanding
Sympathy and trust abounding
No more falsehoods or derisions
Golden living dreams of visions
Mystic crystal revelation
And the mind's true liberation
Aquarius
Aquarius
You can listen on YouTube by clicking here. I hope it brightens your day!
It may have been a counter-culture, hippie-type mantra at the time, but the feelings sure resonate today, don't they.
Jackson's still singing with the PGMC today. Can you pick him out in this photo?
[Updated on: Thu, 28 May 2020 22:26]
Bensiamin
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Good choice, Talo...but nope, that's not Jackson. You'll recall that in A Friend of the Devil, in 1977, he was having his eighteenth birthday.
The YouTube video gives the date of the PGMC performance. The guy you chose is cute, but a little young for the profile!
Want to try again?
[Updated on: Fri, 29 May 2020 16:25]
Bensiamin
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Well, since it is so cumbersome to post a pic on this forum I'll just give you row and number.
I'll guess he is in the second row from the front and fourth man from the left.
Btw, I had the privilege of rehearsing with PGMC a number of times but the logistics of being able to consistently attend rehearsals and performances was rather daunting at the time so never officially joined up, and am now even further out of the area than I once was so it is no longer possible to do so.
“There's no grays, only white that's got grubby. I'm surprised you don't know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That's what sin is.” - Terry Pratchett
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Teddy: good to learn you sang with PGMC! Good on'ya!
Also, good guess on which person is Jackson. Your choice is in the correct age range, but...nope, that's not him either!
Another guess?
Bensiamin
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luvtwinks
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Likes it here |
Registered: August 2018
Messages: 175
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 Hmm...when David and Jackson first met I recall you mentioned Jackson looked a little bit like Davey Jones. So here's my guess.
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luvtwinks: good try, and getting closer, but that's not him either!
I know this is hard, because all of us who read the stories form images in our minds of what the characters look like, and even with the most detailed descriptions, all of us end up forming somewhat, or even very different images of them. Then add thirty five or forty years, and....yikes!
Another guess, anyone? Remember, the PGMC photo was taken in 2019.
Bensiamin
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luvtwinks
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Likes it here |
Registered: August 2018
Messages: 175
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Quote:
Bensiamin wrote on Sun, 31 May 2020 22:58luvtwinks: good try, and getting closer, but that's not him either!
I couldn't single him out from the group photo, but here's his photo ID from work. 😂
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luvtwinks: you win the prize for persistence and dedication!
And, Jackson is:
[Updated on: Mon, 01 June 2020 21:02]
Bensiamin
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luvtwinks
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Likes it here |
Registered: August 2018
Messages: 175
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That was actually my 2nd choice. Almost nailed it!
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For those following the Jackson and David saga, I heard from Will about another arrantement of David Bowie's "Heroes." This one is done as Gregorian chant, and Will was bummed that he'd never been exposed to Gregorian chant having been raised a Presbyterian, but quite liked it.
https://youtu.be/vy9P6VX3vns
Oh, Will figures in an the upcomong "Sofa Skater" writing challenge!
[Updated on: Sun, 28 June 2020 17:28]
Bensiamin
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luvtwinks
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Likes it here |
Registered: August 2018
Messages: 175
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"Bensiamin wrote on Sun, 28 June 2020 17:20"For those following the Jackson and David saga, I heard from Will about another arrantement of David Bowie's "Heroes." This one is done as Gregorian chant...
That was a very interesting rendition. I liked it!
Quote:
Oh, Will figures in an the upcomong "Sofa Skater" writing challenge!
Cool! Always fun to see story characters resurface elsewhere.
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Gregorian Masters of Chant also do a pretty cool cover of Mark Knopfler's Brothers In Arms from the first Dire Straits ablum.
On YouTube at: https://youtu.be/o001Nbo09w8
Bensiamin
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"The Food of Love" as the title for this story was drawn from the title of an early Fleetowood Mac album (Then Play On) which was based on the line from Shakespeare's "A Midsummer Night's Dream: "If music be the food of love, then play on."
I recently discovered that the original recording of one of my early rock favorites, A Whiter Shade of Pale by Procol Harum, didn't include the last two verses because the record company thought it would make the song too long!
And then I also discovered that in one of those verses is another reference to "the food of love:"
If music be the food of love, then laughter is its queen
In a 1967 rock song! I presume that would make the Bard happy.
The complete song is available on YouTube here.
[Updated on: Tue, 20 October 2020 15:21]
Bensiamin
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