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You are here: Home > Forum > A Place of Safety > General Talk > The 11th hour of the 11th day of the eleventh month......
The 11th hour of the 11th day of the eleventh month......  [message #68708] Mon, 10 November 2014 17:23 Go to next message
Brody Levesque is currently offline  Brody Levesque   United States

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http://forum.iomfats.org/?t=getfile&id=1678&private=0

This Remembrance Day, I am dedicating my thoughts to young Marcus Cirillo whose Dad was killed honouring all of our nation's troops at the National War Memorial in Ottawa last month. 

 
Re: The 11th hour of the 11th day of the eleventh month......  [message #68714 is a reply to message #68708] Wed, 12 November 2014 15:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NW is currently offline  NW   United Kingdom

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My own thoughts, as always, were for the terrified young men conscripted into a war not of their choosing, the hundreds that Britain shot for "desertion", the pacifists who nevertheless risked theor lives to save others by working in the (Quaker-based) Friends Ambulance Unit, those thousands from the Empire who came so magnificently to the aid of Britain and who have been so shamefully air-brushed from history and effectively ignored by the Royal British Legion remembrance observations, and most especially for the bereaved wives, boyfriends, partners and lovers who were determined to remember the dead by working for a peace in which the horror of war could never again happen. Their successors are working still, and the White Poppy signifies the determination of each of us who wears it to do whatever we can to work towards removing the causes of war.http://forum.iomfats.org/?t=getfile&id=1679&private=0



"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
Re: The 11th hour of the 11th day of the eleventh month......  [message #68715 is a reply to message #68714] Wed, 12 November 2014 20:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ChrisR is currently offline  ChrisR   Germany

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Without intending any malice, what is the controversy over the Poppy in the UK and Ireland? Given the poem In Flanders Fields, it seems one of the most poignant reminders of the awesome futility of war. How is this a bad thing?
Re: The 11th hour of the 11th day of the eleventh month......  [message #68717 is a reply to message #68715] Wed, 12 November 2014 23:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

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Quote:
ChrisR wrote on Wed, 12 November 2014 20:02Without intending any malice, what is the controversy over the Poppy in the UK and Ireland? Given the poem In Flanders Fields, it seems one of the most poignant reminders of the awesome futility of war. How is this a bad thing?

--The red poppy is a symbol of remembrance, but appears to have become misunderstood as somehow glorifying war. I suspect inscriptions such as "Our Glorious Dead" or similar have not been helpful here, for the dead are not glorious, nor is war a glorious thing, even if the war can be considered to be just, as the winners usually consider it. It has also become a badge that "must be seen to be being worn" on all TV shows here on dates so far in advance of 11 November that I cringe. I will only wear one on 11 November.

NW is our expert on the white poppy. That I will leave entirely to him



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: The 11th hour of the 11th day of the eleventh month......  [message #68718 is a reply to message #68717] Thu, 13 November 2014 00:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ChrisR is currently offline  ChrisR   Netherlands

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Thanks for the feedback. We see the red poppy in the States for Memorial Day, the last Monday in May. That's our day for remembering our war dead. November 11 is Veterans' Day, where we honor all those living and dead who have served in the Armed Forces. No poppies.
Re: The 11th hour of the 11th day of the eleventh month......  [message #68720 is a reply to message #68718] Thu, 13 November 2014 15:00 Go to previous message
NW is currently offline  NW   United Kingdom

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In the UK, the Red Poppy is the exclusive preserve of the Royal British Legion, which exists to help ex-services people. However, the RBL seems very happy to accept large donations from companies that are heavily invested in the arms trade (such as Lockheed Martin),  has never ever campaigned for peace, is very happy to associate the red poppy with army recruitment campaigns, and largely ignores the needs of many ex-services people that they are supposed to benefit. Over a third of those sleeping rough on the streets of London are ex-Forces, and the RBL makes no effort to support this kind on non-photogenic and mentally damaged section of the community. This last is why I personally regard the RBL as a deeply hypocritical organisation, and refuse to wear a red poppy, though I understand and accept that for others it does convey the meaning of remembrance.

The White Poppy started very shortly after the red poppy, when a number of relatives of those killed in the Great War started feeling that the Red Poppy was tending to glorify war and "the old lie" (dulce et decorum est, pro patria mori : it is a sweet and fitting thing to die for ones country). For many years now, it's been the symbol of the Peace Pledge Union. The Peace Pledge reads:
War is a crime against humanity. I renounce war, and am therefore determined not to support any kind of war. I am also determined to work for the removal of all causes of war.'

More information, white poppies, etc on http://ppu.org.uk/ and the microsite http://ppu.org.uk/whitepoppy/index.html



"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
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