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How do I ask him?  [message #68877] Wed, 14 January 2015 10:56 Go to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13497



I know him. We talk about inconsequential stuff. He and I are both 15/16 or so. I know I'm gay. I have no idea what he is. Our talk is about school, about lessons, about other students, about hobbies, about sport, and yes, about girls. I pretend to be attracted to them because I am too scared to be out. He talks about them and I imagine he thinks I am as attracted to girls as I think he is. That is 100%. I give no clues that I am gay. I think he likes me. I think he thinks I like him. We're almost friends, but are really schoolmates, no more and no less. We hang out in school, not outside it. We live miles apart, too far to cycle and there is no public transport.

I am actually head over heels in love with him. It started before sexual attraction. He's decent looking, yes, but no great adonis. I like the way he thinks, and we share similar opinions, though not 100% of the same interests. We, he and I, are probably equally popular/unpopular in school. And I adore him, the boy, not him the body. Don't get me wrong, I like him the body a lot, too. He is in my fantasies.

I want to be able to ask him 'out'. I want to date this boy, or, at least, to let him know that, if I suggest going to the cinema, I want it to be more than two boys going to see a film. I want to be able to know if he wants to maybe hold my hand rather than maybe grossing him out by taking hold of it. I want to be able to give him a peck on the cheek. I don't want to be in his pants in 23 seconds, I want him, if he is available to me, not his body, not just his body, anyway.

So, how do I do it? How do you tell another boy you want to be more than friends?

[Updated on: Wed, 14 January 2015 10:57]




Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: How do I ask him?  [message #68879 is a reply to message #68877] Wed, 14 January 2015 14:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The Gay Deceiver is currently offline  The Gay Deceiver   

Really getting into it
Location: Canada
Registered: December 2003
Messages: 869




Are you asking rhetorically... like how do I ask him, as I would have, if I had had the nerve, 10-, 20- or 30-something years ago; or are you asking in "real" time, this millennium, the year 2015? Although if it were me asking that question, there likely wouldn't be much difference in the approach; but, in most others, probably a great divide.

Warren C. E. Austin
The Gay Deceiver
Toronto, Canada


Re: How do I ask him?  [message #68880 is a reply to message #68879] Wed, 14 January 2015 15:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13497



"The Gay Deceiver wrote on Wed, 14 January 2015 14:52"
Are you asking rhetorically... like how do I ask him, as I would have, if I had had the nerve, 10-, 20- or 30-something years ago; or are you asking in "real" time, this millennium, the year 2015? Although if it were me asking that question, there likely wouldn't be much difference in the approach; but, in most others, probably a great divide.

Warren C. E. Austin
The Gay Deceiver
Toronto, Canada




--
Today, for today's kids.

When I was that age I know how I did it. Not at all.



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: How do I ask him?  [message #68881 is a reply to message #68880] Wed, 14 January 2015 19:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The Gay Deceiver is currently offline  The Gay Deceiver   

Really getting into it
Location: Canada
Registered: December 2003
Messages: 869




As in the aforementioned, for me I simply would be up-front and direct and simply ask for it.  This regardless of whether it's in the here and now, and what better time for it too, or not.

In all my 50-years, or more, as a practicing homosexual, I've never been shy about something, or someone, that I wanted.  I recall one instance especially vividly.

The year 1979, early days of summer and Toronto was in the midst of it's then 'Cops Are Tops' rebranding in the wake of a couple of rather heinous 'Police did what?' scandals.  Homosexuality in Canada had been decriminalized just over a decade earlier and our society was at a snail's pace making moral adjustments accordingly; but, not so the Police.  I had recently moved onto the fourteenth floor of the 35-story Apartment Residence adjacent to the Carlton Hotel at College and Yonge Streets, cheek-by-jowl with Maple Leaf Gardens, almost smack dab in the middle of Toronto's emerging gay ghetto.  I discovered very quickly that I never had to leave my suite, having only to drop a line from my balcony and troll the never abating foot-traffic on Wood Street, hauling-in whatever took my fancy.

For whatever reason this particular late evening, I was leaning against the counter speaking with the cashier at the local Fran's Restaurant when in waltzes two uniformed foot-patrol of Toronto's finest, all spit and polish, shiny and brand-new, looking like they had both stepped out of a band-box, starched and crisp and ready for the plucking.  The shorter, and then by not more than an inch as both were well of 6-feet, strategically sported one of the new slogan's buttons proclaiming that COPS ARE TOPS.  I simply couldn't resist, reaching over in front of his partner and pinching the conveniently proffered tit, saying that "I want some of that!"  "You can't have it." swiftly came his reply. "I damn well can." was my retort.  With he and I jockeying back and forth for prime of place in the confrontation.  After some minutes, the youngster (he couldn't have been more than a year or two younger than I, but the uniform demanded seniority) sputtered, "Let's see some identification."  Handing over my license, I noted his copying down my address in his little Black Service Notebook, which prompted his then asking "Your telephone number, please."  Accommodated, he cautioned me, warning that he could have taken me into the station for impeding justice and interfering with a Police Officer in the course of his duties.  Apparently he and his partner worked a swing shift, from 20:00 Hrs until 04:00 Hrs the next morning.  At 05:00, and the close of his shift, although I was unaware of this at the time, the Concierge rang from the lobby to inform me that there was a Police Constable wishing to come upstairs.  Not knowing why, I instructed him to give access, and awaited the forthcoming knock at the door with bewilderment.

Opening the door when summonsed, there he stood in mufti, COPS ARE TOPS button proffered in one outstretched hand, and carrying what appeared to be coffee and snacks in the other.  "May I come in?" he enquired.  "My name is Donnie, by the way, and it's so nice make your acquaintance."  He spent the next three-days (his days off) in my company, leaving my bed only to shower and eat.  Throughout the course of the next dozen-years, or so, I saw Donnie advance from Uniformed branch to Detective, to Under-cover, all-the-while he and I conducted a clandestine affaire up until his premature death during a bust gone wrong in 1995.

Whilst Donnie's tale, and the earlier saga of my one true love Jon are not typical of the time, they are representative of my 'damn the torpedoes' approach to confrontation, and very much in tune with the mores and temper of these times in the year 2015, even if 40-years later.

To the youth of this decade I say, "Don't sputter, don't hesitate and go for it.  There will never be a better time than now.  Reach out and take what's ripe and yours for the taking, always asking first of course."

In the past 40-years I have witnessed so many potentially sound and stable relationships fail for false-starts that should never have taken place if one or the other, or both, of the intended had only opened their mouths and said what was truly on their mind.

Warren C. E. Austin
The Gay Deceiver
Toronto, Canada

[Updated on: Wed, 14 January 2015 23:02]

Re: How do I ask him?  [message #68882 is a reply to message #68881] Wed, 14 January 2015 21:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13497



Wow.

So, I guess your advice would be along the lines of "I find you really attractive. I'd like to get to know you much better than we can in school. I'd love it if we could go out together, on a date."?

[Updated on: Wed, 14 January 2015 21:57]




Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: How do I ask him?  [message #68885 is a reply to message #68882] Wed, 14 January 2015 23:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The Gay Deceiver is currently offline  The Gay Deceiver   

Really getting into it
Location: Canada
Registered: December 2003
Messages: 869




>"I find you really attractive. I'd like to get to know you much better than we can in school. I'd love it if we could go out together, on a date."<

That about cover's it in a nutshell; although I think I would most likely stress upon the intended that "At this, the outset, I'm most interested in the total package, wanting to understand what's in your mind, within your heart and drives your body."  Romance in situations such as this MUST ALWAYS take third saddle to first trust, and second compassion.  Without the prior two romance simply becomes torrid lust and quickly wanes once abated.

Warren C. E. Austin
The Gay Deceiver
Toronto, Canada

Re: How do I ask him?  [message #68886 is a reply to message #68885] Thu, 15 January 2015 12:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13497



Having thought about this for some time, I agree with it. My reservations were based on a fear (projected into today for the putative boy I was considering) of being known to be gay. But that fear has to go away, because the very act of asking the young gentleman for a date is the act of coming out, certainly to him.

So, to ask a boy for a date "I" also come out.

Ok, I know it's obvious. Of course it's obvious.

As with all revelations, "I" cannot control the reaction nor the answer. All I am sure of is that today, as opposed to 1965 when this was the real me in this dilemma, today the reaction is unlikely to result in my being pilloried as a fucking queer. Today I can hope for a pleasant and polite rejection, or an interested acceptance.

Unless I live in Russia, Saudi Arabia (or any other hotbed of Islam), or am in parts of the uncivilised world, of course.

Yes, Warren, I like your advice here. I like it very much indeed. I could not have done this in my own teens, but I commend the advice to today's teens.

[Updated on: Thu, 15 January 2015 15:21]




Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: How do I ask him?  [message #68887 is a reply to message #68886] Thu, 15 January 2015 14:23 Go to previous message
The Gay Deceiver is currently offline  The Gay Deceiver   

Really getting into it
Location: Canada
Registered: December 2003
Messages: 869




For me, it mattered not a jot that it was 1979 (or 1967 in Jon's situation), nor would it matter today in 2015 if I were to be able to live it all over again; the difference being that as a youth (the first time around) upon asking I was, and would have been, faced with two distinct outcomes, amongst these being that he would either say "Yes, where and when would you like to go out?", or "Thank you, No. He wasn't interested (with or without the bad-mouthing and oaths).", and the very present likelihood that I would then have to quickly duck, avoiding the de rigeur punch, and run like hell in the opposite direction.  Such was the typical 'price' of my being gay and taking care of business.  Either scenario, I would never have been at all concerned about 'coming out' as I had always been out with family and friends and their generally taking me as they found me, or not at all; and, quite frankly I really didn't and wouldn't have given a damn either way.

In fairness I do have to say that my teenaged experiences in this regard are not those generally experienced and enjoyed (sec.) by the greater majority of my contemporaries and others I was simply acquainted with.  Like you, they too would have endured unspeakable mental anguish and near physical trauma at the very thought of simply the asking, let alone the implications of their having popped the question at all.

Fortunately our living in the 'real' World of today, and civilized society largely enjoying the benefits of the past 50-years, or so, of enlightened equality in general, and gay liberation in particular, past fears are greatly reduced and benign rejection being the mostly likely response to a young person asking another of the same sex for a date.

For me to say that today "That the 'thrill' was gone!" from the past days gone by confrontation and the asking, would be putting it mildly; and, I would have to be a masochist on one level or another to say that I miss it.

Hot damn, I've gone and done it one more time; having taken another of those fulsome walks down that boulevard of broken dreams where I once shamed myself and revealed far too much than was good for me.

Warren C. E. Austin
The Gay Deceiver
Toronto, Canada

[Updated on: Thu, 15 January 2015 14:41]

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