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You are here: Home > Forum > A Place of Safety > General Talk > Of choice
Of choice  [message #72480] Sun, 29 January 2017 17:49 Go to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

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Location: UK, in Devon
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http://forum.iomfats.org/?t=getfile&id=3216&private=0



Inconsistent use of capital letters is the difference between Bobby helping Uncle Jack off a horse, AND Bobby helping uncle jack off a horse!
Re: Of choice  [message #72481 is a reply to message #72480] Sun, 29 January 2017 18:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
solsticeman is currently offline  solsticeman   United Kingdom

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One Rabbinic view. That of Rabbi Simchah Roth in his responsum on Homosexuality "Dear David"
http://www.bmv.org.il/ab/dd.asp

Relevant to the boy's comment above. Rabbi Roth's view is that the matter is covered by the Jewish concept of constraint. God made us homosexual and gave us irresistible urges. If we give in to those urges that He made irresistible then that is his decision and not ours. The bottom line of rabbi Roth's opinion, as I read it, is that for the above reason, if there is a sin it is homophobia. To disparage a feature of God's creation is the sin, to give in to an urge he created and made irresistible is not.

On the other hand the Torah does forbid anal sex, and in considering that, Roth's advice is, that within a loving relationship...

So, my advice would be that if occasional weakness results in mishkav zakhur (anal sex), thank God for the deep love that prompted the act and for the deep emotional sense of togetherness and the ecstatic union of souls that in its turn the act generated. Go out of your way to relate to others with a shadow of that outpouring of love that you have been privileged to experience. Go and give צדקה charity to the needy or to a worthy cause as an expression of a deep gratitude to Heaven and a desire that others share a modicum of the happiness you have been vouchsafed. Be loving, kind and considerate to each other, and then try to emulate the ecstatic joy of the physical love you have experienced in your spiritual relationship with God - "and He will direct your paths". Also bear in mind sincere repentance and Yom Kippur.

So if you are homosexual, Jewish and of the same branch as Rabbi Roth then take heart, at least one senior rabbi is/was on your side. His view was that God knew what he was doing when he created a strain of man that would not be overly involved in raising a family, and would have extra time for good works.

Whatever your religion go read Dear David, you will be astounded at the generosity of his position. I was, and I'm an ex-anglican gentile!

Re: Of choice  [message #72482 is a reply to message #72481] Mon, 30 January 2017 08:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
William King is currently offline  William King   France

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Then again you could completely ignore any religion and religious doctrines, that for the most part have caused woe, strife, and suffering. You could choose to live your life knowing that you are god, that you are one with the universe, and the only thing you should try to do in this world is to live the life you have whilst being kind to your fellow man, all living creatures, and mother nature. The key word is RESPECT, for yourself and who you are, as for everybody and everything else. It really is that simple to live a good life.
Re: Of choice  [message #72483 is a reply to message #72482] Mon, 30 January 2017 09:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
solsticeman is currently offline  solsticeman   United Kingdom

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I would agree William... except that ignoring religion is to ignore the problem... religion IS the problem. Virtually every problem the gay community has is caused by religion at its roots.
Re: Of choice  [message #72485 is a reply to message #72482] Mon, 30 January 2017 23:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

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Location: UK, in Devon
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"William King wrote on Mon, 30 January 2017 08:03"
Then again you could completely ignore any religion and religious doctrines, that for the most part have caused woe, strife, and suffering. You could choose to live your life knowing that you are god, that you are one with the universe, and the only thing you should try to do in this world is to live the life you have whilst being kind to your fellow man, all living creatures, and mother nature. The key word is RESPECT, for yourself and who you are, as for everybody and everything else. It really is that simple to live a good life.

--
I have been happy to ignore them all my life. They, however, have not been happy to ignore me.



Inconsistent use of capital letters is the difference between Bobby helping Uncle Jack off a horse, AND Bobby helping uncle jack off a horse!
Re: Of choice  [message #72486 is a reply to message #72485] Tue, 31 January 2017 06:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
William King is currently offline  William King   France

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Registered: October 2016
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"timmy wrote on Tue, 31 January 2017 00:47"

--
I have been happy to ignore them all my life. They, however, have not been happy to ignore me.

--
The only religions not to ignore me are the proselytizing Jehovah's Witnesses and the odd Mormon!
Re: Of choice  [message #72487 is a reply to message #72486] Tue, 31 January 2017 09:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 12891



Ah, William, you may think that. Then you watch a news bulletin and see that is not really the case. Every attack by any religion on homosexuality is a personal attack on you, on me. Bigotry is spewed in varying degrees from various pulpits. All the Abrahamic religions despise homosexuality and homosexuals.



Inconsistent use of capital letters is the difference between Bobby helping Uncle Jack off a horse, AND Bobby helping uncle jack off a horse!
Re: Of choice  [message #72491 is a reply to message #72487] Thu, 02 February 2017 16:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rontexas2 is currently offline  rontexas2   United States

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Registered: April 2016
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Huston Smith died recently.  He was a great scholar of world religions.  He wrote a clarifying parable: "There was a man that was a seeker of truth that came to the attention of the henchmen of the evil one. When the seeker climbed to the top of Mount Everest and reached through the clouds to grasp onto TRUTH the henchmen returned worried to the evil one.  The evil one responded, 'Do not worry yourself.  When he comes down from his mountain we will encourage him to institutionalize what he has learned and then he will be one of us.'"

There is no problem with one seeking truth through belief in a higher power.  The problem becomes turning to institutions that have their own agenda.  If the world would learn to seek truth within through reflection and meditation and Mindfulness there would be a much calmer world.  A world that accepts the reality that we are all unique, capable, beautiful, and worthy of all the goodness life has to offer and we have an obligation to help and support one another on life's journey.

Re: Of choice  [message #72884 is a reply to message #72480] Fri, 12 May 2017 00:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
leobell is currently offline  leobell   United States

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Here's a pretty good article by a straight Christian guy. The end is basically 'being gay is a choice to be the most authentic person you can be'
http://johnpavlovitz.com/2015/04/19/yes-homosexuality-absolu tely-is-a-choice/
Re: Of choice  [message #72887 is a reply to message #72884] Fri, 12 May 2017 23:10 Go to previous message
solsticeman is currently offline  solsticeman   United Kingdom

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@leobell

You said "'being gay is a choice to be the most authentic person you can be"

I so agree. It didn't apply to my generation, except for the most heroic.

For modern youth, the theme I try to bring to my stories is "OK, so you now know youare gay... so what? It just means you will have opportunities to be brave that other kids miss out on."

I think that's what your guy is getting at too


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