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Thilo by Andrew Foote  [message #73018] Mon, 10 July 2017 00:10 Go to next message
solsticeman is currently offline  solsticeman   United Kingdom

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I am very attracted to Andrew's writing.

His latest, Thilo has certainly caught my attention. The plot is darkening nicely. I'm looking forward to more
Re: Thilo by Andrew Foote  [message #73019 is a reply to message #73018] Mon, 10 July 2017 20:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cm is currently offline  cm   United Kingdom

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You and me both, solsticeman.
Re: Thilo by Andrew Foote  [message #73155 is a reply to message #73018] Wed, 09 August 2017 14:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
andypaz is currently offline  andypaz   Argentina

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Andrew is a very good writer. His writing skills are great, BUT... Is Thilo a "gay young boys love story"? I think people come to IOMFATS in search of "inocent love stories" such as "The Outcasts" (Parker) or Brasil (ZO) or "Those old gods" (M) or "A different kind of Chrisms Carol" (SO) or o. c. "CH & N"....
Re: Thilo by Andrew Foote  [message #73156 is a reply to message #73155] Wed, 09 August 2017 16:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

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"andypaz wrote on Wed, 09 August 2017 15:09"
Andrew is a very good writer. His writing skills are great, BUT... Is Thilo a "gay young boys love story"? I think people come to IOMFATS in search of "inocent love stories" such as "The Outcasts" (Parker) or Brasil (ZO) or "Those old gods" (M) or "A different kind of Chrisms Carol" (SO) or o. c. "CH & N"....

--
What would you classify it as if you feel it may not be a teenage gay romantic love story? I ask not to put you down, but to learn more. I am aware that however I ask this question may come across as a put down. It is not my intention.



Inconsistent use of capital letters is the difference between Bobby helping Uncle Jack off a horse, AND Bobby helping uncle jack off a horse!
Re: Thilo by Andrew Foote  [message #73160 is a reply to message #73155] Fri, 11 August 2017 09:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ivor slipper is currently offline  ivor slipper   United Kingdom

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Quote:
andypaz wrote on Wed, 09 August 2017 14:09Andrew is a very good writer. His writing skills are great, BUT... Is Thilo a "gay young boys love story"? I think people come to IOMFATS in search of "inocent love stories" such as "The Outcasts" (Parker) or Brasil (ZO) or "Those old gods" (M) or "A different kind of Chrisms Carol" (SO) or o. c. "CH & N"....

--

I can't comment on whether or not this is a 'gay young boys love story'. It started off that way in the first couple of chapters I read, but I then lost interest so have no idea of what direction it may have taken since then.

However, not all stories here do strictly fit that definition - take Arthur's "Drummer Boy" as a recent example. I enjoyed reading it, but it wasn't about young gay boys in love.

As long as the majority of stories fit that definition I see no problem. After all is said, we the readers can always quit any story we don't like for whatever reason.   
Re: Thilo by Andrew Foote  [message #73162 is a reply to message #73160] Fri, 11 August 2017 11:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

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"ivor slipper wrote on Fri, 11 August 2017 10:05"

"Quote:"
andypaz wrote on Wed, 09 August 2017 14:09Andrew is a very good writer. His writing skills are great, BUT... Is Thilo a "gay young boys love story"? I think people come to IOMFATS in search of "inocent love stories" such as "The Outcasts" (Parker) or Brasil (ZO) or "Those old gods" (M) or "A different kind of Chrisms Carol" (SO) or o. c. "CH & N"....

--

I can't comment on whether or not this is a 'gay young boys love story'. It started off that way in the first couple of chapters I read, but I then lost interest so have no idea of what direction it may have taken since then.

However, not all stories here do strictly fit that definition - take Arthur's "Drummer Boy" as a recent example. I enjoyed reading it, but it wasn't about young gay boys in love.

As long as the majority of stories fit that definition I see no problem. After all is said, we the readers can always quit any story we don't like for whatever reason.   


--
It is really a Boys Own Paper Ripping Yarn, brought into the 21st century. There are two gay teenage lads in romantic and erotic love as a part of it. Obviously the Boys Own Paper tended not to have gay love stories!!

Andrew seems to specialise in Ripping Yarns of late Smile



Inconsistent use of capital letters is the difference between Bobby helping Uncle Jack off a horse, AND Bobby helping uncle jack off a horse!
Re: Thilo by Andrew Foote  [message #73163 is a reply to message #73160] Fri, 11 August 2017 12:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cm is currently offline  cm   United Kingdom

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It seems to me that Thilo is more of an adventure story than a love story (at least so far), but the main characters are two gay teenage boys. More time is spent telling the story of the adventure they are having than on fleshing out the relationship between them. But the adventure story is well told.

This is the opposite of my approach in 'Mark and me' which focuses principally on the relationships between the main characters but which is still (hopefully) supported by a strong story line.

Both pieces have gay main characters, and both have a story line - it's just the emphasis that is different. I don't see why it isn't possible to enjoy both - depending on what mood you are in and what you are looking to take from a story.

A good 'Story shelf' - which is what Timmy is setting out to present - must surely be based on variety. Variety (amongst other things) of location, of age of the main characters and of type - from near-history via adventure to erotica and more.

I'm enjoying Thilo...and as Ivor says, if you're not, then you can always stop reading it...
Re: Thilo by Andrew Foote  [message #73165 is a reply to message #73163] Fri, 11 August 2017 15:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

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"cm wrote on Fri, 11 August 2017 13:19"
It seems to me that Thilo is more of an adventure story than a love story (at least so far), but the main characters are two gay teenage boys. More time is spent telling the story of the adventure they are having than on fleshing out the relationship between them. But the adventure story is well told.

This is the opposite of my approach in 'Mark and me' which focuses principally on the relationships between the main characters but which is still (hopefully) supported by a strong story line.

Both pieces have gay main characters, and both have a story line - it's just the emphasis that is different. I don't see why it isn't possible to enjoy both - depending on what mood you are in and what you are looking to take from a story.

A good 'Story shelf' - which is what Timmy is setting out to present - must surely be based on variety. Variety (amongst other things) of location, of age of the main characters and of type - from near-history via adventure to erotica and more.

I'm enjoying Thilo...and as Ivor says, if you're not, then you can always stop reading it...

--

You make multiple valid points. I choose stories for reasons which include some but not all of:
  • Teenage boys
  • Romantic attachment one to another, potentially returned
  • A plot, not just a fuck-fest
  • Good prose, though actual literary quality need not be exemplary.

We do not need them to have sex, nor even be attracted, though a story without either such as Drummer Boy is a notable exception.

The plot may require us to suspend our disbelief. That's ok up to the point when it isn't, if you get my drift. All tales need to be based 90-95% on reality, even fantasy and SciFi.

I am less interested in the various ways a penis may be inserted into random body orifices than in the character development that allows this to happen at all. Some days I love graphic sex scenes, other days I have had more than sufficient of them.

Sex is essential to the plot of some stories and an optional extra to others.

And so we arrive at the Story Shelf which has built into a wonderful library of tales, many of which will be liked by readers who like teenage stories with a strong gay leaning. Those which are not enjoyed may be put back on the virtual shelf.

There is a formidable library here, of over 20 years of top quality tales, with a few dogs in the mix. Only my dogs and your dogs are different!



Inconsistent use of capital letters is the difference between Bobby helping Uncle Jack off a horse, AND Bobby helping uncle jack off a horse!
Re: Thilo by Andrew Foote  [message #73167 is a reply to message #73165] Fri, 11 August 2017 18:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
andypaz is currently offline  andypaz   Argentina

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Please note that English is a second, or even third, language for me, Thua, please, overlook my goofs.
I would say that Thilo goes in the "not usual gay boys, growing up time adventures", category.
It is a very good story. All of Andrews stories are well written, and very interesting. They all have a plot which does not mainly go round a "love scheme". E.g. In Loneliness there is a lot of commercial motifs in the story when the boys start their business. In "How to fitt in?" many considerations to sport life and swimming are made.
"Boy on the Towpath" in which a lot about sailing appears. Same thing for "Borderlines". BUT, In all those stories,LOVE is the string which ties together the story. Love is always present among the characters.
In Thilo we can read a lot about weapons, terrorism, war in Africa, armored vehicles. The boys even shoot against other human beings. But... how many times have the characters muttered the words "I love you", hand in hand, under the moonlight?
When reading the two first chapters I was very happy. I thought: <¡¡Finally!!...A story placed in a British public school. A story with two young boys, one injured, his friend helps him while falling in love...This will be a great story>
Then after chapter 3 or even 4, things change. War begins. And remains. And the cute boys in love become James Bond or Agent nº1.  Chapter 14 is a lesson in the art of dealing with lawyers, and bankers. The only love words in ch.14 are: "You really love me?   Then will you marry me, when all this is over?" 
It might be that I should wait (and go on reading) up to the end of the story, before opening my big mouth?
I truly apologize if I'm wrong and these considerations are mistaken. Andrew Foote's stories are all very good. I only pretended to say that, I find "Thilo",  somehow, too heavy for a "love story".
Re: Thilo by Andrew Foote  [message #73168 is a reply to message #73160] Fri, 11 August 2017 18:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
andypaz is currently offline  andypaz   Argentina

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Quote:
ivor slipper wrote on Fri, 11 August 2017 06:05
"Quote:"
andypaz wrote on Wed, 09 August 2017 14:09Andrew is a very good writer. His writing skills are great, BUT... Is Thilo a "gay young boys love story"? I think people come to IOMFATS in search of "inocent love stories" such as "The Outcasts" (Parker) or Brasil (ZO) or "Those old gods" (M) or "A different kind of Chrisms Carol" (SO) or o. c. "CH & N"....

--

I can't comment on whether or not this is a 'gay young boys love story'. It started off that way in the first couple of chapters I read, but I then lost interest so have no idea of what direction it may have taken since then.

However, not all stories here do strictly fit that definition - take Arthur's "Drummer Boy" as a recent example. I enjoyed reading it, but it wasn't about young gay boys in love.

As long as the majority of stories fit that definition I see no problem. After all is said, we the readers can always quit any story we don't like for whatever reason.   

--
Re: Thilo by Andrew Foote  [message #73170 is a reply to message #73160] Fri, 11 August 2017 18:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
andypaz is currently offline  andypaz   Argentina

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Dear Ivor. You surely have a point there,: all readers can "quit" reading any story. But, Isnt't it something very difficult to do once you started reading? That is why I always thought that the four first lines in Story shelf "I want to make this crystal clear..." are the basis of this wonderful library...
Re: Thilo by Andrew Foote  [message #73171 is a reply to message #73167] Fri, 11 August 2017 20:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cm is currently offline  cm   United Kingdom

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Love comes in many forms; and we are all entitled to our preferences about what we expect to read in a 'love story'. If you want a different take on love in an English Public school, forgive me if I suggest you take a look at my own story 'Mark and me' (and I would appreciate your views).

For me, the richness of IOMFATS is in the diversity of the stories that are there; do I like them all equally? No, of course not - but that is to do with my taste and not the quality of the writing nor the specific nature of the subject matter. And what I want and appreciate can change with my mood and what I want at the time.

I don't think you need to apologise for anything; all feedback is good. I would rather someone told me that they don't like what I've written and why than just ignore it. 

Re: Thilo by Andrew Foote  [message #73173 is a reply to message #73155] Fri, 11 August 2017 20:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mark   United States

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Dear, Andypaz, perhaps I might be able to shed some light on things.

This site contains what is described on the main page as (among other things) being "Gay Teenage Male Romantic Stories and Poems."  That can be (in my viewpoint, anyway) a somewhat broadly defined statement - and really, Timmy has mentioned a few times over the years that the stories here are stories that he has found particularly interesting for some reason or another, and the one thing they tend to have in common with each other is that there is at least one teenager who romantically involved with another male.

Personally, when reading these stories I do not always look for a strictly romantic element, and, for that matter, romance is not even really a criteria for what I look for.  For example, two of my favorite stories here are "Minky's World" (by Paul Shroder) and "The Wolf and the Lamb" (by Failte200).  While both are teenage gay romantic stories, neither one relies solely on that; the main characters are "involved" with each other in the fullest sense of the term, but they don't spend all their time doing nothing but saying "I love you!" to each other.  They are first and foremost adventure stories, which appeals to me, and in fact, the authors could remove any reference to gay romance and sex altogether and still have a good story that I like.  In neither case would I consider either to be an "innocent" love story, and truthfully I don't even look for that in a story (it's not to say that I would avoid of dislike any story that was a innocent love story, just that that's not what I tend to look for).

It's the same with the two stories I have here on the site.  "The Immortal" is a fan fiction story, based upon (in general) the "Highlander" franchise (which consists of several movies and television shows), and came about because for several years prior to first writing it out and submitting it to another website I'd had this image in my mind of two individuals in a boat floating down a lazy stream in the woods, and one was asking the other (in reference to the franchise), "What if I told you it was all real?"

"An Apprentice's Adventures" is a multi-chapter story that I wrote using various ideas that I've always found interesting (as I mentioned above, I do like adventure stories, and I'm also a fan of the Fantasy genre) and that happened to work well together to tell a larger story.  In this case (and I'm hoping I don't give away too much and spoil things for those who haven't read the story yet and would like to), the two boys who become the main couple in the story don't even meet until the end of chapter 4, and even then don't become a couple for a while after that.

In both cases, gay romance is indeed a noticeable part of the story, but it's not the main focus of the story.  In fact, it's really not supposed to be the focus of the stories at all.  Carrying over an earlier-mentioned comment, any reference to homosexuality could be completely removed altogether and we'd still have the other components of the story left largely intact (it's just something that happens to fit in well).  They are adventure stories that just happen to have homosexual romance involved and two characters who fall in love with each other.  Neither one was written with the intent of it being an "innocent love story."

I imagine that something similar could be said about a lot of the other stories here, too, including Thilo - yes, there is a "homosexual romance" component to them, and in many ways are indeed about the love between the two main characters, but there's often so much more to them than just that.  Even if it's just about the love, it's about how that love comes about in the first place.  Sometimes there's war, terrorism, kidnappings, or other harsh problems.  The characters are in peril, or are forced outside of their comfort zones, or learn that what they thought was the way the world works wasn't quite accurate.

And sometimes, the story is so good that you continue to read long enough to realize that it's not just a gay teenage romantic story and you find that it's difficult to stop reading even though it's not turning out the way you thought it would when you started.
Re: Thilo by Andrew Foote  [message #73174 is a reply to message #73167] Fri, 11 August 2017 21:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

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"andypaz wrote on Fri, 11 August 2017 19:31"
Please note that English is a second, or even third, language for me, Thua, please, overlook my goofs.
I would say that Thilo goes in the "not usual gay boys, growing up time adventures", category.
It is a very good story. All of Andrews stories are well written, and very interesting. They all have a plot which does not mainly go round a "love scheme". E.g. In Loneliness there is a lot of commercial motifs in the story when the boys start their business. In "How to fitt in?" many considerations to sport life and swimming are made.
"Boy on the Towpath" in which a lot about sailing appears. Same thing for "Borderlines". BUT, In all those stories,LOVE is the string which ties together the story. Love is always present among the characters.
In Thilo we can read a lot about weapons, terrorism, war in Africa, armored vehicles. The boys even shoot against other human beings. But... how many times have the characters muttered the words "I love you", hand in hand, under the moonlight?
When reading the two first chapters I was very happy. I thought: <¡¡Finally!!...A story placed in a British public school. A story with two young boys, one injured, his friend helps him while falling in love...This will be a great story>
Then after chapter 3 or even 4, things change. War begins. And remains. And the cute boys in love become James Bond or Agent nº1.  Chapter 14 is a lesson in the art of dealing with lawyers, and bankers. The only love words in ch.14 are: "You really love me?   Then will you marry me, when all this is over?" 
It might be that I should wait (and go on reading) up to the end of the story, before opening my big mouth?
I truly apologize if I'm wrong and these considerations are mistaken. Andrew Foote's stories are all very good. I only pretended to say that, I find "Thilo",  somehow, too heavy for a "love story".



--
Thilo can be somewhat bleak in parts. Chapter 6 expresses a great deal of love, though, but in few words.

Yet all good adventures are built around some form of imposisble quest and a loss that is, somehow, potentially recovered from.

Some of our best authors have written very heavy and dark tales. Others have kept us light and fluffy. For some, reality is the area they specialise in, others create fantasy wonderlands. George Gauthier has a splendid alternate universe, as do London Lampy, David Clarke and others. Grasshopper has created fluff with a hard edge and separately a true darkness. My own early tales have been soewhat formulaic, the later tales have some steel in them, but I know that by no means all are good.

I could go on describing our various authors, but we can all do that.

Ah, a story about an English Public School and love.... The classic is Michael Campbell's Lord Dismiss Us, published in 1968. I fear it needed a ruthless editor to cut it by half, though. David Benedictus wrote The Fouth of June, which describes Eton rather well. But a truly great representation is here:



'If...' shows the banality of the system and the rather trivial dalliances between older and yoinger boys, though never those of the same age.

As an aside, I love this Eton mocumentary:



It is nothing to do with love, though!

[Updated on: Sun, 13 August 2017 10:43]




Inconsistent use of capital letters is the difference between Bobby helping Uncle Jack off a horse, AND Bobby helping uncle jack off a horse!
Re: Thilo by Andrew Foote  [message #73178 is a reply to message #73173] Sun, 13 August 2017 10:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Andichan is currently offline  Andichan   United Kingdom

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Oh dear. It would appear that I've kicked at a hornet's nest with this story, but rather than taking it to heart, I believe it's good to have this discussion.

IOMfAtS is host to a wonderfully diverse collection of work, and I confess that there are some which I have never found worth reading past the first couple of chapters, but then there are some which grab my attention from the outset.

I suspect that some people aren't able to distinguish between romance and sex. It's possible to have a romantic story yet be completely devoid of any sexual content. Likewise, it's possible to have a story that is banged full of sex yet not be romantic and it's because of this that I try to create something that might hopefully stand on its own merits even if there was no mention of a physical relationship. Sometimes the physical is better implied rather than described, therefore leaving it up to the individuals imagination.

As for the storyline, I offer nothing by way of an apology. There are people out there that like to point out that much of the plot could never occur, and of course, they're absolutely right. But this is fiction in much the same way as writing about Elf's and Unicorns. 'Thilo' portrays scenes of extreme violence, but then we live in violent times and this story was my attempt to mirror that problem.

So, by all means be critical. It's my only way of measuring reaction so I can improve my style of writing.

Andy F.



Andy.
Re: Thilo by Andrew Foote  [message #73179 is a reply to message #73178] Sun, 13 August 2017 10:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

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"Andichan wrote on Sun, 13 August 2017 11:27"
Oh dear. It would appear that I've kicked at a hornet's nest with this story, but rather than taking it to heart, I believe it's good to have this discussion.

IOMfAtS is host to a wonderfully diverse collection of work, and I confess that there are some which I have never found worth reading past the first couple of chapters, but then there are some which grab my attention from the outset.

I suspect that some people aren't able to distinguish between romance and sex. It's possible to have a romantic story yet be completely devoid of any sexual content. Likewise, it's possible to have a story that is banged full of sex yet not be romantic and it's because of this that I try to create something that might hopefully stand on its own merits even if there was no mention of a physical relationship. Sometimes the physical is better implied rather than described, therefore leaving it up to the individuals imagination.

As for the storyline, I offer nothing by way of an apology. There are people out there that like to point out that much of the plot could never occur, and of course, they're absolutely right. But this is fiction in much the same way as writing about Elf's and Unicorns. 'Thilo' portrays scenes of extreme violence, but then we live in violent times and this story was my attempt to mirror that problem.

So, by all means be critical. It's my only way of measuring reaction so I can improve my style of writing.

Andy F.

--
No hornets nest, but a great discussion piece, Andy.

You have written a rollicking, dark, improbable-but-possibe tale where we have to suspend our disbelief, and yet are, if we like the tale, drawn in. If we are drawn in then we read with differing levels of enjoyment whch depend on our needs as readers.

What the folk here don't know is that I pushed this tale back to you firmly, and that you took that as a challenge, worked on it, and made it work. When you resubmitted it to me I read an entirley different tale, yet I suspect you only changed a few words and snippets. Often that is all that's required to make a tale flow.

This flows.

The protatgonists are gay and they express their love for each other, too. I think chapter seven is the first where the word "love" is used explicitly. 

As the tale flows forwards we are engaged with the storyline, one that does not telegraph the ending at all, and yet which does not twist and turn, either.

I am still unsure if I actually like either of your heroes, but I am involved with their adventures, and find it is a page-turner.



Inconsistent use of capital letters is the difference between Bobby helping Uncle Jack off a horse, AND Bobby helping uncle jack off a horse!
Re: Thilo by Andrew Foote  [message #73182 is a reply to message #73171] Sun, 13 August 2017 16:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
andypaz is currently offline  andypaz   

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Dear c.m.: Thank you for showing interest in my considerations regarding Thilo, and suggesting your MARK AND ME  story.
I read Mark and Me a few month ago (might have been last March or April, -not sure-).
I re-read it yesterday because I wanted to make sure that what I remembered from the story was accurate.
You say "I would appreciate your views". This is the only reason why I dare to write here what I think:
    1) Most probably I am wrong or confused. My opinions might be of no value, because I do not have a good knowledge of the English language. Or it might be because I am just a reader, and not a writer. Thus, your forgiveness I implore.
    2) Why would I implore your forgiveness? Because you surely will not like what follows:

"Mark and Me" is a very good story. Written with good use of grammar and syntax. Easy to read. Written with rhythm and pace, etc, etc. BUT not," a romantic love story". There is to much sex in it. It should be  "love among two boys", not two -or even 5- rabbits going on it.
What I pretend to say, is not that it is a bad story. No. Only that it does not match with the two first lines of "story shelf" (...the stories I have found here are stories of LOVE...). And that is what we want to find in IOMFATS.
The general plot for "Mark and me" is good. It can be read in 15 minutes. Just skip reading the ever present sexual encounters among the two boys and their multi-national friends. Otherwise you will have to read much longer, just to know who goes in whose bed.

I understand that one -(or even more, when needed)- sexual descriptions, become necessary in a love romantic story. Of course, the boys need to express their love. Of course, they are horny teenagers. Of course, sex is an important part of the equation. But, Is it necessary to describe two or even three sexual encounters in every chapter?

I do understand when you say "love comes in many forms, and we are all entitled to our preferences about what we expect to read in a love story". Yes, you most surely have a point there. Preferences differ. Thus, when your preference is "long trousers" you go to "formal dress shop", BUT if you prefer "shorts", go to "casual or sports shop". When I prefer to read a "gay romantic LOVE story" I come to IOMFATS. When I want "porno", I go somewhere else.

I think that the criteria for choosing stories to be published in IOMFATS changed. It differs from the time when, what I seek in a "LOVE story", was the main course of the literary banquet. E.g. "Journey of love" -Journeyman-.
J.o L. was a very long story. A wonderful story about love and friendship. A story which only needed the description of one -or just two- sex encounters. THAT KIND OF STORY IS WHAT I CALL A GAY-ROMANTIC-LOVE STORY-
A story with no weapons, No murdering. And with just the exact amount of sex to build the plot. Excellent story.

             3) I might be mistaken but regarding MAX AND ME, I find the first chapter to be an orgy.

             4) Once more I apologize. I would never have said any of this if it weren't because you asked for my views.
             Your stories are very good -even nice-, BUT do not match with:

                     " STORY SHELF
                      Before you follow this page of story links, I want to make something crystal clear: Stories that are just about sex are ten a penny. The stories that I have found here are stories about LOVE."

                     That is what,  me and a few friends of mine who have no time in their busy lives to participate in this forum, seek in IOMFATS.

                     5) As the reason for all this is "Thilo", I pretend to say: "weapons, war, hurting people, or too much sex, etc., are no part of "LOVE" either.



   
Re: Thilo by Andrew Foote  [message #73183 is a reply to message #73182] Sun, 13 August 2017 17:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cm is currently offline  cm   United Kingdom

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Thanks for this. You are right about the content of the story - but I hope it is erotica rather than porn. And I understand completely if it's not what you want to read.

Where I am sorry is that you find no romance in it - that is a criticism that hurts as nothing could have been further from my intention; indeed, it was the fundamental thing that drove me to write it in the first place. But that does not mean your criticism is not valid - and you have been kind enough to be honest.

I hope that if any piece was wildly inappropriate that Timmy would say so and ask the author to reconsider; I hope also that you will find that other pieces I write are more to your taste - and I agree that detailed descriptions of sex are not always necessary.

It is only honest feedback like this that helps any of us to write better and more thoughtfully; so thank you.

Re: Thilo by Andrew Foote  [message #73185 is a reply to message #73183] Sun, 13 August 2017 23:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
andypaz is currently offline  andypaz   

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Location: buenos aires
Registered: June 2016
Messages: 13



1st. AND MOST IMPORTANT:
It's erotica, NOT porn. I'm a brute and my knowledge of English is very limited. Please forgive me.

2nd. I never said " there is no romance in it". I only said that, you can read the hole story in 15 minutes, just by skipping the sex parts... What remains of the story is good light romance. The boys love each other. Parents are ok with it. Headmaster at school is acceptant. They study together, they travel together, they are happy. So, romance.
I would have liked a different ending. But, if the ending had to be that one... Why not allow him to be faithful to his dead friend? Isn't Max coming in his life too soon? Aren't  Marks "messages" very permissive?.
Please, forgive me once more: this your story to write and for me to read.

3rd. I enjoyed "Harry and Me" very much. Even voted for it together with My crimson Year in the last challenge.

Thank you for writing. Your work helps a lot of people who want or need to read. I look forward your next story.If possible keep the boys out of the bed...
Re: Thilo by Andrew Foote  [message #73186 is a reply to message #73178] Mon, 14 August 2017 01:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
andypaz is currently offline  andypaz   

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Location: buenos aires
Registered: June 2016
Messages: 13



Dear Andrew: It's my fault. I started all of it. I'm to blame for kicking the hornet's nest. I'm sorry. I do truthfully apologize. But, I am not entirely guilty, as you will see:
  A few days ago one of my friends (H) phoned early morning:
- "Awake, awake!"" J. (another friend with whom we usually read the stories), phoned and said that there is a new story by A. Foote"-
-Me: "Oh! What's the theme? Is it nice? Is it good?"
-H: "I don't know. As soon as I get to the office I'll read it..."
That same evening, all five of us friends, met at the pub. All having checked and read  the first chapter. We decided that "Thilo" was a promising story. We thought it would develop in a wonderful story such as "Boy in the towpath" or "Loneliness."

For us, a wonderful story is a story in which you can find characters being "good people". Where not many "sexual descriptions" are necessary. Where boys study, share life and growing up time with their friends, help each other, and love their boyfriend...
All of what can be found in your previous stories. Plus adventure (perfect example "No borderlines"), makes an outstanding story.

The First two chapters were just what we expected. Even ch. 3 and 4 were received well. Then...it changed. The story was no more about love but of something else. Weapons, armored vehicles, war in Africa...
We felt very disappointed. We expected romantic love (not sex love) but received a thriller instead.

Today I tried in my very short English vocabulary, to answer c.m.'s lines in relation to his Mark and Me story.
I'm not quite sure I succeeded. I wanted to say exactly what you state in your second paragraph: "It's possible to have a romantic love story yet be completely devoid of any sexual content".
That is perfect, short, and expresses exactly what I pretended to say. That's surely the reason why you write so nice stories and I only read them.

Please,try to understand that I (and my friends) find Thilo to be a very good story. We are not criticizing the story. Au contraire! We only pretend to say that we prefer "innocent love stories" (as Where do I fit in?) or "adventure love stories" (as No Borderlines), to stand in the story shelf. We like innocent teenagers with a hand full of books or tools (just as Sam or Aruno in No Borderlines), but we find difficult to cope with armed boys.

It might be that we are old men. It might be that we do not understand how things work today.
Might be that we are not (and don't want to be) prepared for a "sex and weapons" life.

I lived in boarding school (first in Germany and then in a South American country) from my fifth birthday up to my 19th. I fall in love with the man who became my life partner when we both were 17. We lived, and worked, and shared life together for nearly 40 years. Same sex marriage was allowed two years after my partner died.  We will marry as soon as we reunite wherever he is waiting for me. I became a teacher in the same school when I was 26. I was a teacher, father, brother, friend, to over 1000 teenagers during 25 years. When I read a story which takes place in a boarding school, I feel as if I were re-living those 42 years of school life. But, in "my" school..., you can find many real "love stories", but no weapons. All type of adventures, but no armored vehicles. In "my" school, boys play, study, work, fight, become friends, grow, even have sex with their boyfriends, but they do not fire any guns. The only violence to be found is in a "rugger match"

Once more Andrew, Thank you for all the nice stories. Your work helps all those who like to read, but are too lazy to write their own books. We expect your next story.

PS.: b.t.w. I'm surely mistaken and nowadays teenagers shoot their own guns... (n.p.i.)
Re: Thilo by Andrew Foote  [message #73187 is a reply to message #73174] Mon, 14 August 2017 02:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
andypaz is currently offline  andypaz   

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Location: buenos aires
Registered: June 2016
Messages: 13



Dear Timmy, THANK YOU!   As always, for all...   As for today, for your advice on books and films.
You are right: it needed a ruthless editor...
Anyhow, I find the Weatherhill school not well lucubrated...
"If" is a technically very good film, but...tendentious?
I will refrain of expressing opinion on the Eton parody...

About "Thilo", Please take a look at what I wrote to Andrew Foote and c.m. - I would appreciate your comments, if you feel as to do so.
Re: Thilo by Andrew Foote  [message #73188 is a reply to message #73186] Mon, 14 August 2017 09:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Andichan is currently offline  Andichan   United Kingdom

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Location: Hillmorton UK
Registered: December 2014
Messages: 16



Andypaz, I'm sure it's fine to hold negative views regarding this story. 
Some years ago I attended a writers workshop. One of the speakers was a well known published author, and part of his presentation is something I'll never forget. 
The idea of this workshop was to try and encourage a degree of free-thinking and creativity, and the point he was trying to get across, was that it's wrong to write for an audience or to try and second-guess what might or might not prove popular, because that stifles creativity.
An author, be they professional, or like me, just someone who has something to say, should always write for themselves, and themselves alone.

It's also interesting to note that having written 'Loneliness' and its subsequent publication here, I was under some pressure to write a sequel. I happened to mention this to Timmy, and his only comment was 'Fine. Go ahead and write it, but don't allow yourself to become a one-story wonder.'

So, this is why I try to ring the changes. If I have an idea, and having penned a couple of chapters and think it has legs enough to go the distance, then I'll go with my instincts and enthusiasm and run with my idea until I'm happy with it.

I tend to get rather involved with my characters and they live in my head for months after the writing process is over. Until they fade into background, fresh ideas are hard to come by. This is why I only write an average of one story each year, so I'm afraid there might be a bit of a wait before I submit anything new.

Thanks for your comments; they're much appreciated.

Andy F. 



Andy.
Re: Thilo by Andrew Foote  [message #73189 is a reply to message #73185] Mon, 14 August 2017 10:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cm is currently offline  cm   United Kingdom

Toe is in the water
Location: Somerset
Registered: May 2017
Messages: 84



First, thanks for creating a debate. Hearing others' views is always good - and I'm pleased you enjoyed 'Harry and me.'

With regard to your comment,

'But, if the ending had to be that one... Why not allow him to be faithful to his dead friend? Isn't Max coming in his life too soon? Aren't  Marks "messages" very permissive?' 

my view - and my experience - is that you honour someone's memory better by going forward in the strength of the love that they have given you than by cutting yourself off from the world. Did it happen too soon? I guess that depends on the circumstances and the individuals; all I can say is that, in the context of the story and the relationships that existed, if felt right.

Re: Thilo by Andrew Foote  [message #73190 is a reply to message #73187] Mon, 14 August 2017 10:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 12930



"andypaz wrote on Mon, 14 August 2017 03:47"
Dear Timmy, THANK YOU!   As always, for all...   As for today, for your advice on books and films.
You are right: it needed a ruthless editor...
Anyhow, I find the Weatherhill school not well lucubrated...
"If" is a technically very good film, but...tendentious?
I will refrain of expressing opinion on the Eton parody...

About "Thilo", Please take a look at what I wrote to Andrew Foote and c.m. - I would appreciate your comments, if you feel as to do so.

--
If... was some sort of allegory at the end of what was a dramatised documentary. Up to the scnene in the café it was an accurate protrayal of my own school, a mediocre Public School whose major talent was to imbue its pupils with mediocrity. It tried to beat the individuality out of us, literally. It failed in some cazes, in others there are mental scars. I correspiond infrequently with a man who was a boy some three years my senior, and whom we admired. he was a hero to us all. But the school saw that and literally tried to beat it out of him. The physical pain was irrelevant, but it came close to breakig him, the regularity of the many and varied punishments.

I told him a few years ago that he was a hero, was much admired. He was surprised. It took him a while to become pleased.

We had armaments at our school, as they did in If... We were limited to Lee Enfield 303 rifles, Bren and Sten guns, and an army truck. If we had owned a tank we woudl have played with it. I learned to build lashed trestle bridges, and also how to blow bridges up. Thus Thilo is not more than a stretch of my disbelief with its arsenal.

I see Thilo as a sort of junior "Kingsman" plot, really. We have a couple of putatively attractive gay lads having an adventure or six. At the end of them they are dirty and sweaty. I rather fancy giving one or both a careful wash! Or, at the very least watching while they wash each other.

Ah, the Eton parody. It actually reflects Eton very well. I know one of the boys who makes a minor appearance in it. I think it beats the original hollow!



Inconsistent use of capital letters is the difference between Bobby helping Uncle Jack off a horse, AND Bobby helping uncle jack off a horse!
Re: Thilo by Andrew Foote  [message #73191 is a reply to message #73155] Mon, 14 August 2017 12:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ivor slipper is currently offline  ivor slipper   United Kingdom

Likes it here

Registered: September 2013
Messages: 261





Gay Teenage Male Romantic Stories

I'd say that four out of those five words are pretty easy to define. The one that is open to some
interpretation is 'Romantic'. I believe what some people would define as being romantic, others would
not. Herein lies the problem that Andypaz has raised.

For some years I have read, and also written, stories for a male/male spanking site. The 'rule' that
applies for stories to be published there is that they must contain some form of spanking. That sounds
pretty simple and straightforward and indeed it is - much simpler than trying to define 'romantic'.

However, it does not mean that every story that appears there appeals to me. A considerable percentage
do not, but in the majority of cases I won't know that until I start to read the story. If I find it is not to my taste then I stop reading it. Of course after a while you get to know which authors are likelyto write stories you will enjoy and so you start reading those with a degree of hope. I am equally sure that the reverse of this also applies in that there are some readers there who enjoy my stories just as there are some who do not.
Re: Thilo by Andrew Foote  [message #73194 is a reply to message #73182] Tue, 15 August 2017 00:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mark   United States

Really getting into it
Location: Earth
Registered: April 2013
Messages: 839



Quote:
andypaz wrote on Sun, 13 August 2017 10:17I think that the criteria for choosing stories to be published in IOMFATS changed. It differs from the time when, what I seek in a "LOVE story", was the main course of the literary banquet. E.g. "Journey of love" -Journeyman-.
J.o L. was a very long story. A wonderful story about love and friendship. A story which only needed the description of one -or just two- sex encounters. THAT KIND OF STORY IS WHAT I CALL A GAY-ROMANTIC-LOVE STORY-
A story with no weapons, No murdering. And with just the exact amount of sex to build the plot. Excellent story.

             3) I might be mistaken but regarding MAX AND ME, I find the first chapter to be an orgy.

             4) Once more I apologize. I would never have said any of this if it weren't because you asked for my views.
             Your stories are very good -even nice-, BUT do not match with:

                     " STORY SHELF
                      Before you follow this page of story links, I want to make something crystal clear: Stories that are just about sex are ten a penny. The stories that I have found here are stories about LOVE."

                     That is what,  me and a few friends of mine who have no time in their busy lives to participate in this forum, seek in IOMFATS.

                     5) As the reason for all this is "Thilo", I pretend to say: "weapons, war, hurting people, or too much sex, etc., are no part of "LOVE" either.

--

Now, while I haven't been here as long as some people have, I don't think that the criteria for stories published here have changed at all (of course, I could be wrong; Timmy is the one who has established this site and its criteria, so of course he would be the one to say whether or not any of that has changed over the years).  The stories here are, as you have noted, about love (or, more specifically, about "gay teenage male romantic stories").  Here's the interesting thing, and what I (and I suspect others) are trying to say here - "love" can come in many ways, shapes, and forms.  Yes, sometimes it's "innocent."  Other times weapons, war, hurting people, too much sex, etc. are involved in the overall story.  Do those bad things take away from the story?  If the story is written badly, then yes, they can; more than a few of us are familiar with a site called Nifty, and no small amount of the stories there are nothing more than porn stories (I once told Timmy that I tend to consider most stories there as the gay version of a concept called "wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am" - the characters promptly rip their clothes off, have sex, and then go about their merry ways completely ignoring the fact that they just shared a very intimate moment with each other).

However, if written properly, that's not the case.  You can still have a well-written love story where bad things happen to good people (in fact, some might argue that the bad things can serve to make the love that much stronger).  Yes, I understand that you and some of your friends come here for innocent love stories, but keep in mind not everyone else does.  Sometimes a little peril makes for interesting reading - one or more of the main characters may run the risk of getting seriously injured or even killed, and it can be exciting to see how they get out of that (or if they even do get out of it unscathed), and as part of that they may have to go fight and fire guns or use other weapons (depending on the setting).

In short, I believe that yes, it's possible to have a well-written story that is strictly an "innocent love story" of the type you enjoy.  I also believe that it's possible to combine "love story" with a variety of other areas - thriller, comedy, adventure story, mystery, etc., and still have a good story that involves love, among other things.  Throwing in non-love topics like war or guns in no way detracts from the love part of it.
Many stories... Many Authors...  [message #73197 is a reply to message #73190] Tue, 15 August 2017 10:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 12930



This thread got me to thinking about Rick Beck's stories. At present we are serialishing The Gulf of Love, though you ought to read The Gulf Between Us first.

Rick's style is interesting. His stories are a huge mixture of love, politics, action and grit, and yet all are understated. The Gulf of Love is exspecially timely with Trump's attack om anti-pollution measures, an attack I feel here in England. I, of course, have the benefit of knowing how the tale ends. So will you in quite a few chapters.

Is this a love story? Does Rick write love stories? He might be the best guy to answer that, so ask him, here and by email.



Inconsistent use of capital letters is the difference between Bobby helping Uncle Jack off a horse, AND Bobby helping uncle jack off a horse!
Re: Many stories... Many Authors...  [message #73199 is a reply to message #73197] Tue, 15 August 2017 18:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Andichan is currently offline  Andichan   United Kingdom

Getting started
Location: Hillmorton UK
Registered: December 2014
Messages: 16



Rick had me captivated with 'The Gulf Between Us'.

At first, I was unsure where it was going, but the way it was written haunted me. His way of depicting scenes, events and backgrounds whilst making me feel that I was watching everything through net curtains had me looking at my way forward.

Romantic?
Definitely.

Erotic?
Definitely not. But it was thought-provoking, broody and dark; a bloody good read if you're looking for something to absorb you.

Andy F.



Andy.
Re: Many stories... Many Authors...  [message #73200 is a reply to message #73197] Tue, 15 August 2017 21:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
andypaz is currently offline  andypaz   Argentina

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Location: buenos aires
Registered: June 2016
Messages: 13



Yes, yes. Rick writes wonderful love stories. The gulf between us and Gulf of love. Both are very nice romantic love stories, and much more. The characters which appear in both stories are really to be loved. Clayton, the twins -so different, but so similar at the same time- Popov and his boat, and specially Taggart...
Rick Beck's stories are "comprehensive" of a lot of themes. A perfect mix of love and ideas. Through them you feel and you think.
There is a point in the plot (Gulf of love) when Harry brings Clay a "fish finder" as a birthday present. That chapter (or a few paragraphs before or after) are really mind openers. You can understand the damage which the Gulf of Mexico goes through . And yes, Trump's politics are to be feared. 
New to this forum  [message #73215 is a reply to message #73018] Thu, 17 August 2017 15:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jujubee   

Getting started
Location: California USA
Registered: August 2017
Messages: 1



I feel uniquely qualified to comment on this story. I live an admittedly privileged existence. I attend an exclusive Boys school. The academic stress is extremely high and you have to be a very accomplished musician to attend as well. Our student body is made up of the sons of diplomats and executives of multi-national corporations. Some of us just come from extremely wealthy families.
Our security measures seem extreme but no one has been abducted from our school. Our proctors or security people have been recruited from the top special units of several countries. The SAS as well as GSG9 alumni are well represented here.
The situation that the author describes is quite plausible to me. We receive weekly security bulletins and most of us practice some sort of self defense. My Father, Grandfather and I all study Aikido. I can say that it has come in very handy on more than one occasion.
My classmates and I live in a cloistered environment, we are allowed internet but not Facebook or Twitter or any of the social media. We cannot post on You Tube either although we can view any of its content. Anything and anybody we contact via the school computer network is subject to intense scrutiny. Most of us maintain a Gmail or Hotmail account for situations such as this.
I realize the rules say we shouldn't be reading the stories on this site but most of our student body gay and straight visit here frequently. This site was recommended by a friend and my Grandfather who supports my sexual orientation actually read a few stories here to see if it was fit for my consumption. He found Loneliness for me and since then I've read everything Mr. Foote has written with a couple exceptions as recommended by my Grandfather. I'm very fortunate in that my entire family supports me in being gay and all that that entails.
I've read several stories penned my many different writers. Most of them are quite well written, a few seem to be overly contrived but that's only my perspective. It's quite clear to me that the boys in this story are deeply affectionate for each other. I don't really need graphic descriptions of their sex lives. I enjoy them when they come up and even though there is a limited vocabulary to describe our genitalia during a passionate interlude I don't believe it's necessary to reinvent the wheel metaphorically speaking, to find a new term to describe an erect penis one suddenly discovers in one's own mouth.
Back to business; if you don't believe the story is plausible ask the Getty's and Rothschilds. And then take a nice walk with Jonas Savimbi, Oh darn you can't, His own soldiers killed the crazy bastard. Perhaps Mr. Mugabe can spare you some time. I suppose Joseph Kony might do as well.
While I'm writing I should mention that like any other demographic, teenage boys are not a monolithic block. Some kids talk like kids, we tend to speak like adults on most matters of academics or music but then lower our guard and our linguistic standards when we are back in our dorms.
We do however like to read stories in which we are presented as real people and not just a throbbing bag of hormones. Some of us are a little rough around the edges, others wouldn't say shit if they had a mouthful. Everyone on campus can swear in at least one other language.
The consensus at school is that most authors rush the anal sex angle. That was the principal reason I asked my Grandfather to vet a few stories for me to read.
Jujubee
Re: New to this forum  [message #73481 is a reply to message #73215] Thu, 05 October 2017 23:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
American_Alex   United States

Getting started
Location: New York, upstate
Registered: October 2017
Messages: 4



I generally like this story; it's well-written and has a decent amount of adventure, but if I'd known that it was going to be this long I might've reconsidered. I was also reluctant to keep reading once it became obvious that both characters were filthy_stinking_rich, since this an extremely overused plot detail in bad erotic fiction online (cough, cough, Nifty, cough...). Still, despite my misgivings, I kept reading.

FWIW, it looks like the author knows a lot about military weaponry and protocol, but his knowledge of current African affairs, as well as common law seems quite thin. I can imagine no situation where 'terrorist' groups from Somalia, Namibia, and central Africa would have any connection at all, considering there are hundreds of miles between them. Likewise, a minor with no guardian making a will, signing corporation documents and acquiring citizenship on his own strains credulity just a bit. But, this is fiction, so I guess anything can be possible.

My hope now is that all these details that don't make sense come together, and make a solid ending.
Re: New to this forum  [message #73483 is a reply to message #73481] Fri, 06 October 2017 07:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 12930



"American_Alex wrote on Fri, 06 October 2017 00:43"
I generally like this story; it's well-written and has a decent amount of adventure, but if I'd known that it was going to be this long I might've reconsidered. I was also reluctant to keep reading once it became obvious that both characters were filthy_stinking_rich, since this an extremely overused plot detail in bad erotic fiction online (cough, cough, Nifty, cough...). Still, despite my misgivings, I kept reading.

FWIW, it looks like the author knows a lot about military weaponry and protocol, but his knowledge of current African affairs, as well as common law seems quite thin. I can imagine no situation where 'terrorist' groups from Somalia, Namibia, and central Africa would have any connection at all, considering there are hundreds of miles between them. Likewise, a minor with no guardian making a will, signing corporation documents and acquiring citizenship on his own strains credulity just a bit. But, this is fiction, so I guess anything can be possible.

My hope now is that all these details that don't make sense come together, and make a solid ending.

--
There is always a need to suspend some disbelief. An example is James Bond.

"Come in Mr Bond, I've been expecting you." is a great example.  Some secret agent, that, if he is always expected!

Like Bond, Thilo is a great Boys Own Paper romp.



Inconsistent use of capital letters is the difference between Bobby helping Uncle Jack off a horse, AND Bobby helping uncle jack off a horse!
Re: New to this forum  [message #73487 is a reply to message #73483] Fri, 06 October 2017 21:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
American_Alex   United States

Getting started
Location: New York, upstate
Registered: October 2017
Messages: 4



Quote:
timmy wrote on Fri, 06 October 2017 03:26There is always a need to suspend some disbelief. An example is James Bond.

"Come in Mr Bond, I've been expecting you." is a great example.  Some secret agent, that, if he is always expected!


--How about: 

"I've lost my charm!!!!"
"Not from where I'm standing, you haven't."


Re: Thilo by Andrew Foote  [message #73489 is a reply to message #73178] Sat, 07 October 2017 12:41 Go to previous message
Pkew is currently offline  Pkew   United Kingdom

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Registered: September 2017
Messages: 3



Hi, not a criticism of Thilo, but a possible error in the second loneliness story. It's set in the mid 70s, but you mention Princes Harry and William, also Diana. If it's jumped 20 years and I haven't noticed, sorry.

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