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You are here: Home > Forum > A Place of Safety > General Talk > Needed to talk about this. Advice, please?
icon5.gif Needed to talk about this. Advice, please?  [message #75994] Mon, 14 October 2019 12:54 Go to next message
pandareader is currently offline  pandareader   Brazil

Toe is in the water

Registered: October 2019
Messages: 51



Hi, 

Although it's the first time posting here I think I have been coming to this site for almost 20 years on and off. Many times i had thought about registering but couldn't overcome a sense of shyness (for lack of better word) so I've been "lurking" here for years and years. I guess I'm saying this because I feel sorry that I wasn't a more "active" part of this community and just enjoyed this place and all the stories never properly acknowledging that it's important to me in a way. So, first of all, thank you Timmy for creating this site and mantaining this place for all these years.

I apologize for the wall of text but I really don´t have anyone else to talk about this. I actually wrote all of this yesterday evening but had to wait until my account was approved before I could post... 
I´m a 39 yr old man and have been in love with my (39M) best friend for over 20 years. We´ve met in high school and became best friends but I realized I had deeper feelings for him and tried to tell him when we were 17.
At the time, I´ve never actually managed to say I liked him just that I was attracted to him and that I´ve had thoughts about him. He just said to me that was unexpected and didn´t talk to me for a while so I just assumed he wasn´t interested. We´ve gradually started talking again and we quickly resumed our friendship as if nothing had happened.

For the past twenty years or so he´s been my best friend although our relationship sometimes seems more intimate than that. We text each other constantly and talk on the phone every day, multiple times a day (sometimes he calls me just to talk when he´s commuting to work and vice-versa). He´s never been in a relationship and rarely if ever dates (he does not talk about his sexuality and although I know almost everything that happens in his life, I don´t even know if he´s straight or gay!). I´ve had few dates myself with women but I must say that part of me always hoped that he´d end up with me. I don´t know if I´m just too messed up in the head to put myself in a unhealthy relationship with my best friend for all these years but to be really honest, I had kind of accepted that we would have this really close relationship but without being ever partners.

 However, I´ve recently had some health issues that made me kind of rethink the way I´m living my life - work, relationships, etc. Last night I went out with him and other friends to go to the movies and he started asking me why I seemed so down. We started talking about what I expected from life and that I had been feeling lonely. He teased me about being too early to have my midlife crisis but said something along the lines of "everybody always try to plan for things in life but we don´t really know what life will give us. But sometimes we have to try to get what we want".
 So at the end of the evening, as he was dropping me off home, I told him that I needed to tell him something. I told him that this was "me, trying for what I want". And asked him if he could ever see himself dating me. I also told him that he´s a big chunk of my daily life and one of the most important people in my life  and that what we had was comfortable enough but that it bothered me that I wanted more in our relationship.He asked me if he could think about it and process what I asked him before he answered. I asked why, since it´s not like it was this giant surprise how I felt about him since I had told him when we were 17. He agreed that he already knew it but even so asked me to answer me some other time since it was pretty late in the evening and we were practically parked in the middle of the street.
I honestly was expecting him to turn me down but I felt like I have been badly suppressing my feelings for him for too long and needed a clear answer (which, in the end, I didn´t get). 

So here I am now, trying to make sense of what I did. Trying to make sense if this just a variation of gay boy falls for straight best friend. I thought I´d be an emotional wreck after I talked to him but I feel kind of relieved tbh.  I know that today will be really hard for me not to text him or call him but I guess I should wait for him to talk to me? Is it sad that since he did not reject me right away that I feel a little hope for something more? 
Re: Needed to talk about this. Advice, please?  [message #75995 is a reply to message #75994] Mon, 14 October 2019 13:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13458



I already like your friend, whatever the outcome.

What you can not know is what he is processing in his thoughts. It could be anything from "how do I tell him yes?" to "how do I tell him no?" and all points in between

If I stand in his shoes, telling you 'yes' is scary, because his life is in order, and this may turn it upside down for him.

What I can say for certain is that you are in a far better position than I was. You will have a real answer. That will come unless you pester him for it

I would continue to talk to him until he answers. Your friendship is not conditional on your partnership. Tell him that.

[Updated on: Mon, 14 October 2019 13:21]




Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Needed to talk about this. Advice, please?  [message #75996 is a reply to message #75995] Mon, 14 October 2019 13:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pandareader is currently offline  pandareader   Brazil

Toe is in the water

Registered: October 2019
Messages: 51




I'm hoping he knows that his friendship is really important to me. I didn't really think it through yesterday that I might have jeopardized our friendship (though I am now...) but I don't think we'll stop being friends no matter what the outcome.
I want to talk to him but should I give him some space first? Wait a few days and see if he reaches out? 
Re: Needed to talk about this. Advice, please?  [message #75997 is a reply to message #75996] Mon, 14 October 2019 15:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13458



"pandareader wrote on Mon, 14 October 2019 14:24"

I'm hoping he knows that his friendship is really important to me. I didn't really think it through yesterday that I might have jeopardized our friendship (though I am now...) but I don't think we'll stop being friends no matter what the outcome.
I want to talk to him but should I give him some space first? Wait a few days and see if he reaches out? 

--
I think you are overthinking. Have your normal social and sociable conversations. If you like, tell him you will not mention it more until he decides to raise the subject



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Needed to talk about this. Advice, please?  [message #76000 is a reply to message #75994] Mon, 14 October 2019 16:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pandareader is currently offline  pandareader   Brazil

Toe is in the water

Registered: October 2019
Messages: 51



He just texted me, wants to talk tonight. 
I was already having trouble concentrating at work today, now I'm a mess. Guess I'll find out one way or another. 
(About overthinking, I guess I cant do anything but overthink everything right now) 
Re: Needed to talk about this. Advice, please?  [message #76001 is a reply to message #76000] Mon, 14 October 2019 16:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13458



The worst that is likely to happen is that he thanks you politely, is flattered and declines. As long as you both refuse to let it hurt your very real friendship that is truly fine.

I imagine he is also concerned right now on how it will affect you both in the future, whatever he says

At work do tasks where you can't harm anything. Do NOT have dutch courage before you speak. Do not expect a romantic evening. Exepct to learn something instead

[Updated on: Mon, 14 October 2019 18:03]




Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Needed to talk about this. Advice, please?  [message #76002 is a reply to message #76001] Mon, 14 October 2019 17:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pandareader is currently offline  pandareader   Brazil

Toe is in the water

Registered: October 2019
Messages: 51



I think it's more likely he'll say he does not like me "romantically" speaking. I figure that if he did, something would have already have happened in these 20 years. But I really need a clear answer. So I'm preparing myself and trying to crush happy thoughts when my mind start wondering "what if he says yes".
About the "dutch courage" I'm afraid I've never heard this expression before, english is not my first language.
But I've never been the courageous type...

I really appreciate you taking the time and chatting with me like this, it helps having someone to talk  to about it.
Re: Needed to talk about this. Advice, please?  [message #76003 is a reply to message #76002] Mon, 14 October 2019 18:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13458



Your English is so good I made assumptions, I'm sorry. This explains Dutch courage, and it would be most unwise.

Whether he wants romance or not, both of you please agree never to lose your friendship. You have smething very important to you both already.

I have tried hard to achieve what you are about to achieve with the one way adoration of my infatuation. I am envious of the closure that is about to happen. A good 'no' is painful but you can live with it.

[Updated on: Mon, 14 October 2019 18:03]




Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Needed to talk about this. Advice, please?  [message #76004 is a reply to message #76003] Mon, 14 October 2019 18:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pandareader is currently offline  pandareader   

Toe is in the water

Registered: October 2019
Messages: 51



Oh, I'm not usually a big drinker but that's sound advice. Anyway I'll probably end up staying late at work since I'm quite slow today and won't have much time until we're supposed to meet tonight so no time to drink (not that I would have)
I really really don't want to lose his friendship, it's one of the things I value most in my life. Hopefully he feels the same...
Thanks for the compliment for my english, I read and re-read numerous times that first post before hitting Post. Im writing quickly these answers, if I screw up something pls let me know. 
Re: Needed to talk about this. Advice, please?  [message #76005 is a reply to message #76004] Mon, 14 October 2019 19:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13458



when I study what you write there are a very few word order things that give a clue that you are not a native speaker. They are unimportant.

Just tell him you never want to lose his friendship. We only know what others tell us.



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Needed to talk about this. Advice, please?  [message #76006 is a reply to message #75994] Mon, 14 October 2019 22:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
luvtwinks is currently offline  luvtwinks   United States

Likes it here

Registered: August 2018
Messages: 129



I do hope things work in your favor. Having said that, even if your friend does not want to pursue a romantic relationship, you will have some closure. The "what if" thing is toxic to one's mental state. Once you have a definitive answer you can move forward accordingly.

But as others have stated, please don't let the ultimate outcome affect your 20 year friendship. That is priceless! ❤️

[Updated on: Mon, 14 October 2019 22:35]

Re: Needed to talk about this. Advice, please?  [message #76007 is a reply to message #76006] Mon, 14 October 2019 22:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pandareader is currently offline  pandareader   Brazil

Toe is in the water

Registered: October 2019
Messages: 51



I'm home right now. we are supposed to talk in an hour or so, he just texted me he's on his way. Feeling really, really anxious. Asked him if he'll stay for dinner, he says he wants to talk first. So Im guessing thats a hint that things will go to the "friends way". 
I just can't stop playing different conversations in my head... 
Wish me luck. I probably cant have him
the way I dreamed (too strong a word?) so at the very least I dont wanna ruin our friendship.
Re: Needed to talk about this. Advice, please?  [message #76008 is a reply to message #76007] Mon, 14 October 2019 23:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13458



"pandareader wrote on Mon, 14 October 2019 23:57"
I'm home right now. we are supposed to talk in an hour or so, he just texted me he's on his way. Feeling really, really anxious. Asked him if he'll stay for dinner, he says he wants to talk first. So Im guessing thats a hint that things will go to the "friends way". 
I just can't stop playing different conversations in my head... 
Wish me luck. I probably cant have him
the way I dreamed (too strong a word?) so at the very least I dont wanna ruin our friendship.

--
When he arrives try to be as you usually are, normal. The last thing he will want to see is lovesick schoolgirl. If he wants romance with you it is YOU he wants. So be you.



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Needed to talk about this. Advice, please?  [message #76009 is a reply to message #76008] Mon, 14 October 2019 23:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Teddy is currently offline  Teddy   United States

Likes it here
Location: USA
Registered: October 2006
Messages: 376



I wish you the best outcome, Friend. You deserve to be happy. The biggest mistake we make in these situations, I think, is that we tend to pin or selfworth on the outcome, which is a mistake, and possibly an indicator we may not be ready for the relationship we desire. I say all this from sorrowful, personal experience :-) 

[Updated on: Tue, 15 October 2019 00:03]




“There's no grays, only white that's got grubby. I'm surprised you don't know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That's what sin is.” - Terry Pratchett
Re: Needed to talk about this. Advice, please?  [message #76010 is a reply to message #76009] Tue, 15 October 2019 01:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pandareader is currently offline  pandareader   Brazil

Toe is in the water

Registered: October 2019
Messages: 51



So. We talked. Went as expected, with him telling me "no" gently.
We talked more, friendship will survive this (again).
but it really hurts right now, just needed to vent a little. I'll probably write about it to help me make sense of it. Right now I just want to say it went as well as it could have, but it really really sucks.

Re: Needed to talk about this. Advice, please?  [message #76011 is a reply to message #75994] Tue, 15 October 2019 05:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
luvtwinks is currently offline  luvtwinks   United States

Likes it here

Registered: August 2018
Messages: 129



Sorry things didn't work out the way you hoped for. But you say your friendship will survive. He seems willing to stay your friend no matter what happens. That's a really big deal! So maybe he won't be your lover, but he's definitely a BFF. That's priceless. ❤
Re: Needed to talk about this. Advice, please?  [message #76012 is a reply to message #76010] Tue, 15 October 2019 07:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13458



"pandareader wrote on Tue, 15 October 2019 02:05"
So. We talked. Went as expected, with him telling me "no" gently.
We talked more, friendship will survive this (again).
but it really hurts right now, just needed to vent a little. I'll probably write about it to help me make sense of it. Right now I just want to say it went as well as it could have, but it really really sucks.





--
Of all the many emotions swirling though your brain right now, find the one that says "I know, now, for sure." Of all of them that one is the highest value. I know that, for  time, it will be the hardest to bear. I know that you will feel anger. I expect you to have periods when you wonder whether you hate him, but you never will. I know that, even though he cannot love you in a romantic way you will always love him. But this will never be 'what might have been' because you know for sure it never can.

I loved two boys. One was, sometimes still is, a 'might have been'. He has never been able to talk to me. The other is a boy I only realised I loved 10 or so years ago. That second love has never been romantic, never erotic. He was handsome, but I was never attracted to him. He was a friend. He is a friend.

I told the second, that I love him and he realises and understands that it is the genuine love of one person for another, without sexual interest or desire. We meet when he is in England. He lives in Australia and has since he was maybe 25. He does not love me. We are friends.

I wrote a book about, or really for, the first, He has the book. I know because I mailed it to him. I know I will never hear from him ever again. He has probably thrown it away.

If you can work out how to reduce you romantic feelings while still loving your friend...

There is a lot of other advice. That can wait. Just know that I damaged myself from the age of 13 to the age of 66 because I could not stop obsessing over the boy I fell for in 1965. I think, at 67, I am free from "him" but that should really be 'free from me'.

[Updated on: Tue, 15 October 2019 07:59]




Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Needed to talk about this. Advice, please?  [message #76013 is a reply to message #75994] Tue, 15 October 2019 13:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pandareader is currently offline  pandareader   Brazil

Toe is in the water

Registered: October 2019
Messages: 51



Hi
First, thank you luvtwinks, Teddy and Timmy for talking to me. I already "spoiled" the ending of my conversation last night so you all know that we are to remain friends (was going to write "chose to remain friends" but if I had my way the choice would be different...) 
He stopped by last night and we had a real honest talk about us. He started by asking me how I was feeling and I told him I was feeling anxious. He said that although he already knew what I had kind of told him 21 years ago that the timing of this conversation caught him off guard. He asked me the reasoning for doing this now, if he had said or done something that might have led me to thinking or if something else had happened in my life... 
I told him that it was not that something had suddenly awakened my feelings for him, that I felt they were always have been there. The word I used was latent but thinking about it now that isn't entirely true. I don't think my feelings for him were dormant and then decided to one day awaken and I suddenly loved him again; they were more like this ache, sometimes more intense and closer to the surface but always kind of there all these years (well, I didnt say it like this to him and probably never will now).
About the reasons for doing this now, I told him that I needed a clear answer. He told me then that "no, he could never feel about me in a romantic way". 
He told me he cannot love me in a romantic way but that he also does not feel the need to have someone as a partner in his life. That he does not feel the need to have someone like this in his life (both emotionally and physically).
He then asked me if I was sexually attracted to him. I think that thought kinda bothered him...
I couldn't bring myself to tell him "yeah, you turn me on". So I went on a round about way of telling him that I was attracted to all of him and that although he was not what people would think about as a fashion model, yeah, i was also attracted to him physically. He told me he does not think he's gay and won't ever be attracted to men sexually.
He asked me what would we do then, from now on. He was worried that I had been hung up on him for all these years and unable to move on (which I kind of was) and that if we went back to the relationship we had that I'd still be unable to move on. 
I told him that he was one of the most important people in my life, that his friendship was something really precious to me. That I knew that our relationship was kind of "too intimate" as far as friendships go but that I did not want to let go of it. I asked him what did he want since it shouldn't be my choice alone. He said that us being "too intimate" doesn't  "bother" him (by which he means, he is ok and likes that, I asked) and that it would be easier if he could have said yes to me. That he had thought about it. But that it's just not him. That he can't.
Surprisingly I did not break down crying right then though I felt like my heart was just destroyed. I said that I was kind of expecting this since nothing happened in the past 20 years, but that part of me was wishful. I told him that although hearing that made me want to cry I needed to have that conversation that we didnt have back then. That I needed to be clear and tell him what I was feeling. And I told him that I didn't want our relationship to change, that now it's up to me to not get hung up on him, that he does not have to change the way he acts around me. I told him that if it's up to me I want to be his best friend for as long as it's possible.
He didn't want to stay for dinner and was getting ready to leave. Then I asked him for one thing before he left and not to freak out about it please. I asked him to hug me before he left. 
And it felt so good but so so heartbreaking, like thats the only touch I'll ever have from him. And then he said the nickname he uses for me in such a sad way that I started to sob. And I didn't want to break down. I didnt want to ever let go, but I didnt want to break down. So I broke the hug, told him goodbye. Then I ordered way too much food for me and had a beer. 
Woke up this morning and my first conscious thought was that he doesn't love me. Now I'm sitting in bed typing this for more than an hour and contemplating deleting everything.
I've never really used the word "love" to tell him what I feel. We skirted around the word using euphemisms and I think that if I told him the words "I love you" it would have bothered him. He knows though.
I will talk to him again today, don't know how things will go but probably we won't touch on the subject.
I'm more than ok  pouring all my feelings and thoughts here but somehow feel like he told me really personal and intimate things and I suddenly feel like I'm betraying his confidence by writing about things he confided to me here... It's impossible to tell what I'm feeling with just my side of the conversation, though. He asked what I would think about talking about this with a friend of ours to ask their perspective as someone that knows both of us. I told him I'd rather he didn't. I don't want anyone that knows both of us ever knowing about this, it feels too precious to me. Should I tell him I came here for advice? I dont think I want him reading what I said here...
I just don't know what to do in the future: I'm positive I dont want to lose what we have but I caught myself thinking that I can choose to have this relationship with everything but physical/emotional affection. I keep having to crush this idiotic thoughts of "since he doesnt want anyone, I will wait till he realizes Im here". I told him it was up to me not to get hung up on him but I dont know how to move on. And I absolutely dont want to distance myself from him or anything like that they tell you to do to get over unrequited love.


Re: Needed to talk about this. Advice, please?  [message #76014 is a reply to message #76012] Tue, 15 October 2019 13:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pandareader is currently offline  pandareader   Brazil

Toe is in the water

Registered: October 2019
Messages: 51



Thank you Timmy. I appreciate your thoughts and advice and I'm grateful you kept this place for all these years. I've been coming here for a long time and I'm glad it was here when I needed it (though I feel a bit guilty for not participating before).
I have bought your book some months ago and have been meaning to read it. 
Right now I'm thinking it would probably resonate too much with me and I dont know if Im ready for that. But I will read it, it will be good to see your perspective on things that seems to have some parallels in my life.
I dont have the first clue of how to reduce my romantic feelings while still loving him. Guess I'll have to figure that out, and hopefully, accomplish.

Re: Needed to talk about this. Advice, please?  [message #76015 is a reply to message #76014] Tue, 15 October 2019 15:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13458



I'm told my book is funny, but the point of writing it was to exorcise my demons. and, to a great extent, it has done that. I reached some conclusions at the end for myself.

What you are doing here, now, is writing out your heart, what you feel, how you feel. Writing helps.

For the next few days, longer if you allow it to be longer, you will focus on losing what you have never had. I speak only from my own experience. You have dared what I was unable to do. You have dared to discover if you ever had what you hoped for. It happens that you had something close, but different. You had, have, a good friend. And he sounds like a very good friend. He listened. He asked questions. He was thoughtful and clear in his own needs. I think he thought about your feelings as he told you that he was not wanting love in a romantic sense.

You do know you both do love each other as true friends, I hope?

Some years ago I would have been in tears reading your words. You have with your adored person the thing I really wanted with mine. I wanted a friend. I was unlucky to fall for him and this ruin my possibility of a friendship. You are in a better position than I was. You just can't quite feel it today.

It's been a pretty difficult two days, hasn't it?

As soon as you are able, speak to him again and tell him how much you appreciate the way he told you. I have no idea how you celebrate great events together, but this one requires a celebration. "The day I knew for sure" No, That's not right. "The day we cleared the air" Hmm, no. "The first day of the rest of our friendship"  That's getting there.

Maybe tell him that you have a friend in England who realised 15 or so years ago that he loved his best friend from school, but not in a romantic way. That we are each the brothers the other never had. Tell him that it seems like a pretty good model for both of you

[Updated on: Tue, 15 October 2019 15:53]




Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Needed to talk about this. Advice, please?  [message #76016 is a reply to message #76015] Tue, 15 October 2019 17:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pandareader is currently offline  pandareader   Brazil

Toe is in the water

Registered: October 2019
Messages: 51



Writing out my heart is a good  definition, I'm feeling like I'm gonna explode with all the things  Im
feeling and thinking. This way I can let some of those things out into the world... 
Spent my morning feeling like I'm going to cry but the tears don't come. Work has been kind of a blessing because it gives me something to focus on.
Personal interactions with friends and coworkers today is weird. I've got a friend that greets everyone asking if they're 100% but today I couldn't answer (and I know it was just his way of saying hello and he didn't actually think I was not feeling well). I kept missing social clues and answering questions too slowly or saying weird things. I guess ppl noticed I'm not quite myself today.
My best friend (yeah, him.) texted me today talking about some news he saw. I texted him back and we had a normal conversation. I'll probably call him tonight as usual and I'm expecting we won't talk about anything that happened yesterday and it'll be awkward but I'm just trying for "normal" again slowly.
Knowing him, I don't think he'll be a fan of having a kind of "Friendship day" but I quite like the idea of that, timmy. maybe it'll be a private one for myself.  I don't think I'll mention my friend in England, I have some childhood friends that live in England and he'll think I'm talking about them. But thanks for being my friend in England even though we don't really know each other I really appreciate being able to talk.
And yeah, really difficult two days. Feeling really crappy but a bit relieved at same time. Mostly sad, though.
Re: Needed to talk about this. Advice, please?  [message #76017 is a reply to message #76016] Tue, 15 October 2019 18:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13458



You keep writing and we'll keep listening.

Writing helps us to process the things we're going through. As we write our thoughts start to assemble. We learn what to keep and what to file in the 'processed' pile.

One of the things you are almost ready to understand is that you are free, at last, from the prison walls you built very carefully around yourself as you protected yourself from learning what was always the truth.

You're suffering grief, probably. It doesn't need anyone to die for us to grieve. Grief is hard, needs time to pass before it goes. You can hurry it through. You can't avoid it. Do not enjoy (wrong word, but you know what I mean) grieving. Be the man you are, and work through it and be a Phœnix.

[Updated on: Tue, 15 October 2019 18:43]




Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Needed to talk about this. Advice, please?  [message #76018 is a reply to message #76017] Tue, 15 October 2019 20:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pandareader is currently offline  pandareader   Brazil

Toe is in the water

Registered: October 2019
Messages: 51



Just got home from work, finished earlier than my usual time. And I'm just realizing how empty my apartment feels, living alone has never bothered me before.
I understand what you say about not enjoying my grief, and I hope I won't keep "treasuring" it. Right now though lm just feeling sad and bothered that I feel constantly like I'm about to cry but I just can't seem to. And that Ive never been so talkative about my feelings in my life. 
I think I'll just go out for a bit and have dinner somewhere, everything feels Not ok and a bit hopeless.
Re: Needed to talk about this. Advice, please?  [message #76019 is a reply to message #76018] Tue, 15 October 2019 22:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
luvtwinks is currently offline  luvtwinks   United States

Likes it here

Registered: August 2018
Messages: 129



"pandareader wrote on Tue, 15 October 2019 20:39"
Right now though lm just feeling sad and bothered that I feel constantly like I'm about to cry but I just can't seem to. And that Ive never been so talkative about my feelings in my life.



A good cry can help. It sounds counterintuitive, but I've found it helpful in dealing with my situation years ago. Also, talking about it and sharing your story on this site is a good start.

I have no other bits of advice to share at the moment, but I do have a virtual hug for you over the internet. Not as good as the real thing, but I'm thinking of you and wishing the best for you. *hugs* 
Re: Needed to talk about this. Advice, please?  [message #76020 is a reply to message #76018] Tue, 15 October 2019 22:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13458



"pandareader wrote on Tue, 15 October 2019 21:39"
.... everything feels Not ok and a bit hopeless.

--
I know that for me it was terrifying knocking my prison walls down. I took steps forwards and backwards. I cried in the rain so no-one would see. And that is all perfectly fine.

I think you just realised that you can consider dating. Not today, but soon enough. Dating is where you make a fool of yourself meeting people where you don't quite click. And then, one day, you will click. It will feel different from the unrequited love you have for you friend. It will be more comfortable

[Updated on: Tue, 15 October 2019 22:48]




Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Needed to talk about this. Advice, please?  [message #76021 is a reply to message #76019] Wed, 16 October 2019 00:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pandareader is currently offline  pandareader   

Toe is in the water

Registered: October 2019
Messages: 51



Thanks for the hugs, I'm in need of a good hug.
I'm waiting for the crying to catch up with me, I spent the whole day feeling close to crying but when I find myself alone the tears just don't come.
And now that I'm doing nothing but overthinking again, I'm worried that our friendship will suffer because of what I did no matter that we both are willing to keep it.

Re: Needed to talk about this. Advice, please?  [message #76022 is a reply to message #76020] Wed, 16 October 2019 00:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pandareader is currently offline  pandareader   

Toe is in the water

Registered: October 2019
Messages: 51



I can't bring myself to think about dating any time soon. And yeah, it feels terrifying.
talking helps a little.
Re: Needed to talk about this. Advice, please?  [message #76023 is a reply to message #76022] Wed, 16 October 2019 04:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Pedro   United Kingdom

Toe is in the water

Registered: March 2014
Messages: 62



First, a virtual hug from me.

Hopefully your friendship is strong enough for you both to get through this.

This may sound simplistic but what I suggest you do, if you can, is take a short holiday, just a long weekend, and go away to somewhere different. It doesn't need to be far, perhaps two to three hours by road. The objective is to get you away from your normal environment.
The planning will give you something new to think about and the trip will be something to look forward to. The break from your normal routine will hopefully help you settle yourself. If you can afford it, stay in a hotel and not a Bed and Breakfast. Not to pamper yourself but because a B&B usually requires more social interaction with your hosts, something you may not feel you want at the moment.





Pedro
Re: Needed to talk about this. Advice, please?  [message #76024 is a reply to message #76022] Wed, 16 October 2019 07:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13458



"pandareader wrote on Wed, 16 October 2019 01:13"
I can't bring myself to think about dating any time soon. And yeah, it feels terrifying.
talking helps a little.

--
The old adage that 'a trouble shared is a trouble halved' is not really true. What is true is that the more you share the trouble the less power it has over you. One day the point comes that you can cope with it.

Use us as a mirror. Tell us what you're thinking. We don't promise to be right when we answer. All we promise to to is to listen. Some will answer. Others will not know what to say.

One way or another we have all been in impossible love. Mine, I put an imperfect boy on a pedestal. I carved his features to be more beautiful, his personality to be more perfect and raised the pedestal until I could not reach him. Removing his statue from that pedestal was almost impossible. It would have been far better if he had hit me. It would have hurt for a while and been over. Your pain starts at a different place. You start with knowledge. And your friend sounds lovely, kind, generous. He thought hard before you both spoke.

'Thinking about dating' is not the same as realising that you can, one day, consider it. It's the start of becoming ready to live the rest of your life, supported by a great friend. Today, no. Starting dating today would be very difficult. It is the same tomorrow. Some day in the future, when you are towards the end of your grief you will discover that you are ready.



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Needed to talk about this. Advice, please?  [message #76025 is a reply to message #76023] Wed, 16 October 2019 13:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pandareader is currently offline  pandareader   Brazil

Toe is in the water

Registered: October 2019
Messages: 51



Thanks for the hugs, Pedro. The going away sounds like a good idea,
cant manage that for the next few weeks though...
Timmy, I appreciate the good thoughts, having this mirror and you listening is helpful. I'm just writing whatever is on my mind/heart and posting, I don't even know if I'm making sense. (And please let me know if I make too many english mistakes and what I write is unreadable). I'm using any free time I have to come here and talk, talk, talk...
I need this friendship to survive, I can't really bear to think that I may have ruined something unique and precious to me because I reached too high for something I couldn't have. We've texted and talked yesterday. Texting has a more "normal" feel. Me calling him might have been kind of awkward for him, he kind of made excuses to finish the call soon. We didn't talk about us and I know that he won't like if I bring up the subject. I know he'll feel bad about revisiting the subject with me and I'm a bit concerned that he does not have anyone to talk about this.
I told him Monday that I would not apologize for asking him if he would be able to like me romantically because it was too important to me to have a clear answer. And I'm not sorry that I did. But I'm worried about the effects on him of having to reject me, and how it'll influence our friendship. 
Woke up missing him a lot, even though we never broke contact. Feeling a bit empty inside.
Re: Needed to talk about this. Advice, please?  [message #76027 is a reply to message #76025] Wed, 16 October 2019 20:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Teddy is currently offline  Teddy   United States

Likes it here
Location: USA
Registered: October 2006
Messages: 376



Big hugs, my friend. BIG HUGS! 🤗🤗🤗




“There's no grays, only white that's got grubby. I'm surprised you don't know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That's what sin is.” - Terry Pratchett
Re: Needed to talk about this. Advice, please?  [message #76028 is a reply to message #75994] Wed, 16 October 2019 21:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cm is currently offline  cm   United Kingdom

Toe is in the water
Location: Somerset
Registered: May 2017
Messages: 54



Hugs from me too, panda.  I know it may not feel like it right now, but to have had the conversation you had and to still be close friends is a wonderful gift. I know it is not the fulfilment you sought, but perhaps that still lies ahead. Take the friendship and keep celebrating it.

I wonder, from the way you've described him, if your friend is asexual - he simply doesn't't feel sexual attraction to anyone. If that is the case, then the relationship you have with him is the most fulfilling gift you can give him, even if it is not as  fulfilling for you as you would like. If that is the case, then you can at least relax in the knowledge that there is nothing you can change about you that would ever make any difference, and that the relationship you have is the best that it could ever be.If this so, you may feel sad, but there is no cause for tears; some people never even get to have a friendship like the one you two have.

I may not be right about this, of course...but it is what is in my heart and I wanted to share it with you.
Re: Needed to talk about this. Advice, please?  [message #76030 is a reply to message #76027] Thu, 17 October 2019 01:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pandareader is currently offline  pandareader   Brazil

Toe is in the water

Registered: October 2019
Messages: 51



Thank you!
Re: Needed to talk about this. Advice, please?  [message #76031 is a reply to message #76028] Thu, 17 October 2019 01:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pandareader is currently offline  pandareader   Brazil

Toe is in the water

Registered: October 2019
Messages: 51



Thank you cm!
He said he doesn't think he's gay and that sexuality is not something that he "needs". I didn't ask him to clarify as he was telling me this while explaining why he couldn't be with me. So, you could be right.
Is it a bit sad that I got some comfort from that thought? Like you said, feels less like I lack something or that I am not "good enough" and more like what we have is as much as he can give me. 
Well, he called tonight. We talked about nothing important, felt more like our usual conversations. Feeling a bit more optimistic that we'll be ok.
Re: Needed to talk about this. Advice, please?  [message #76035 is a reply to message #76031] Thu, 17 October 2019 16:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13458



"pandareader wrote on Thu, 17 October 2019 02:12"
Thank you cm!
He said he doesn't think he's gay and that sexuality is not something that he "needs". I didn't ask him to clarify as he was telling me this while explaining why he couldn't be with me. So, you could be right.
Is it a bit sad that I got some comfort from that thought? Like you said, feels less like I lack something or that I am not "good enough" and more like what we have is as much as he can give me. 
Well, he called tonight. We talked about nothing important, felt more like our usual conversations. Feeling a bit more optimistic that we'll be ok.

--
Your friend is as close to you as he can be, and you are as close to him as he can respond to. This is the foundation of a wonderful, real, loving friendship, but not a romance.

I find asexuality perplexing, but that is because I am not asexual. Thus no-one has ever been able to explain it to me in terms I can relate to. I think it would be unwise of you to press your friend to explain it to you. He probably cannot, and it would risk all. You understand him now as much as you truly need to



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Needed to talk about this. Advice, please?  [message #76036 is a reply to message #76035] Thu, 17 October 2019 21:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pandareader is currently offline  pandareader   Brazil

Toe is in the water

Registered: October 2019
Messages: 51



Yeah, I confess I have trouble understanding asexuality myself, probably because I can't really imagine myself without any sexual needs. You're right, I don't think I'll question him about it, unless some day he wants to talk about it.
Today was a bit less difficult, I spent whole chunks of my day not feeling sad and not having this constant thoughts about it.
im trying to focus on the good side of knowing that I have a best friend and that we intend to keep being friends for as long as we can. Also not spending a lot of time alone in my apartment. I went out for dinner every day since tuesday (dining out alone seems a bit better than dining home alone...). 
Writing thoughts/feelings also seems to help. Coming here multiple times and reading your thoughts... I'm grateful for the support from everyone here.

Re: Needed to talk about this. Advice, please?  [message #76038 is a reply to message #76036] Thu, 17 October 2019 22:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13458



Not directly relevant to your situation, but wholly relevant to writing, you might find the linked articles here of mild imterest. Writimg is one key to getting out from under our large backpack of problems

[Updated on: Thu, 17 October 2019 22:32]




Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Needed to talk about this. Advice, please?  [message #76040 is a reply to message #76038] Thu, 17 October 2019 22:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Teddy is currently offline  Teddy   United States

Likes it here
Location: USA
Registered: October 2006
Messages: 376



"timmy wrote on Thu, 17 October 2019 15:32"
Not directly relevant to your situation, but wholly relevant to writing, you might find the linked articles here of mild imterest. Writimg is one key to getting out from under our large backpack of problems

--I agree wholeheartedly! Writing does wonders for helping ease the stress of situations. Even if the only person who ever sees it is yourself, it can be a cathartic exercise. It can be even more cathartic if you have someone whom you can implicitly trust to share your writing with, but that always comes in second to having the courage to write it out for your own benefit.



“There's no grays, only white that's got grubby. I'm surprised you don't know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That's what sin is.” - Terry Pratchett
Re: Needed to talk about this. Advice, please?  [message #76044 is a reply to message #76040] Thu, 17 October 2019 23:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pandareader is currently offline  pandareader   Brazil

Toe is in the water

Registered: October 2019
Messages: 51



https://www.angliacounselling.co.uk/emotional-well-being/wri ting/I thought I knew my way around this site well, but have never seen the whole section about Emotional Health  linked. I have just read number 7: here
(I don't know how to link it properly).
I found it interesting how that's exactly what I'm doing, writing out my heart in a place I'm being heard and gaining some perspective and insights from others... 
Youre right, Teddy, there's catharsis in writing about thoughts and feelings, like I'm letting some pressure out. Feeling a little less this tightness in my chest. As far as sharing with people I implicitly trust with my feelings, well, I came here. Don't personally know anyone here but this place always felt welcoming and filled with empathy... you all have helped ease a bit my grief these past few days.
Re: Needed to talk about this. Advice, please?  [message #76061 is a reply to message #76044] Sat, 19 October 2019 19:00 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
pandareader is currently offline  pandareader   Brazil

Toe is in the water

Registered: October 2019
Messages: 51



Hi, I'll keep writing here and use this space as a kind of journal, ok?
I usually work on weekends but was not working on this one. I'm having a slow weekend, which gives me time to think and wallow a bit in self-pity. I have been listening nonstop to sad songs (Lewis Capaldi seems to be playing on a loop on my phone lately). 
Later this weekend there's going to be a big family celebration (that's why I'm not working this Saturday) so I'll see a o lot of family and close friends. He's going to be there too, and it'll be the first time we meet face to face after our talk on Monday. But I think we'll be ok. Our conversations through text are getting to be more like our usual relationship and that feels comfortable and good.
My problem is me and some messed up thinking I find myself sometimes. I know there was nothing different I could have done and that there isn't nor there won't be anything I can do to change the outcome for things in the future BUT I can't help but sometimes dwell on the dangerous thought that I'll be waiting for him to come around. Some stupid fantasy that he'll realize what he can have if he wants to. I know I got my answer and I've been trying to process and accept my "no" and treasure what I do have.  But these little fantasies will sneak up on me if I'm not paying attention. I have to actively "think" myself out of those thoughts...  how do I stop this? I know this line of thought will only hurt me more. 
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