A Place of Safety
I expect simple behaviours here. Friendship, and love.
Any advice should be from the perspective of the person asking, not the person giving!
We have had to make new membership moderated to combat the huge number of spammers who register
















You are here: Home > Forum > A Place of Safety > General Talk > The Assault on LGBTQ Rights
 () 1 Vote
Re: The Assault on LGBTQ Rights  [message #77616 is a reply to message #77457] Wed, 03 February 2021 18:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bensiamin is currently offline  Bensiamin

Likes it here
Location: USA
Registered: July 2019
Messages: 316



LEST WE BECOME TOO UNCONCERNED AS WE CELEBRATE!

http://forum.iomfats.org/?t=getfile&id=5269&private=0

While out Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg was confirmed by a bipartisan vote of 86-13, who voted against the confirmation of the first gay Cabinet Secretary?
All Republicans from conservative states, the group have long histories of opposing LGBTQ rights. While none of them cited Buttigieg's orientation for their vote, the senators have spent their careers decrying anything remotely queer.
Some of the senators objected to the certification of electoral college votes mere hours after insurrectionists stormed the Capitol building in their own attempt to stop the certification.
 
The contrarian senators were:

Marsha Blackburn (TN)
Bill Cassidy (LA)
Tom Cotton (AR)
Ted Cruz (TX)
Bill Hagerty (TN)
Josh Hawley (MO)
James Lankford (OK)
Roger Marshall (KS)
Marco Rubio (FL)
Rick Scott (FL)
Tim Scott (SC)
Richard Shelby (AL)
Tommy Tuberville (AL)
 
The entire group support giving Christians a license to discriminate against LGBTQ people under the guise of "religious freedom." All oppose expanding civil rights protections to transgender people and marriage equality.

[Updated on: Wed, 03 February 2021 18:21]




Bensiamin
Re: The Assault on LGBTQ Rights  [message #77617 is a reply to message #77616] Thu, 04 February 2021 01:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Teddy is currently offline  Teddy

Really getting into it
Location: USA
Registered: October 2006
Messages: 475



And the listed politicians are probably the same ones who are so deep in the closet they've found Narnia.



“There's no grays, only white that's got grubby. I'm surprised you don't know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That's what sin is.” - Terry Pratchett
Re: The Assault on LGBTQ Rights  [message #77618 is a reply to message #77617] Thu, 04 February 2021 17:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bensiamin is currently offline  Bensiamin

Likes it here
Location: USA
Registered: July 2019
Messages: 316



Likely true, Teddy. LOL!!

That said, all should note that this is not just an American phenoneon occuring within US politics. The underlying motivator is white Christian nationalism, and while we have our own special and vile version here, one doesn't need to look very hard to see nationalism erearing its ugly head in many countries. In many of those countries it's not just white nationalism, but white Christian nationalism as well!

As nationalistic despots have shown through the ages, they use groups of people as scapegoats to drive the furor of the populace. The LGBTQ community is one such group, and reversing same-sex marriage rights is right up there with overturning Roe v. Wade for these people.



Bensiamin
Re: The Assault on LGBTQ Rights  [message #77619 is a reply to message #77618] Fri, 05 February 2021 18:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bensiamin is currently offline  Bensiamin

Likes it here
Location: USA
Registered: July 2019
Messages: 316



And, it's happening on the state level too!

http://forum.iomfats.org/?t=getfile&id=5270&private=0

But not it's more than just bathroom use prohibition. It's moved up to prohibiting trans kids from participating in sports activities!

Read the article at LGBTQ Nation here.

[Updated on: Fri, 05 February 2021 18:21]




Bensiamin
Re: The Assault on LGBTQ Rights  [message #77620 is a reply to message #77618] Fri, 05 February 2021 19:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Teddy is currently offline  Teddy

Really getting into it
Location: USA
Registered: October 2006
Messages: 475



"Bensiamin wrote on Thu, 04 February 2021 09:46"
As nationalistic despots have shown through the ages, they use groups of people as scapegoats to drive the furor of the populace.

--
This reminds me of a discussion I saw on social media the other day bemoaning the phenomenon of "Cancel Culture" where if someone is disagreed with they get banned or removed from the group or ostraciized or whatever. It got me to thinking about my experience growing up wihthin evangelical christianity. I've got to say that in my opinion cancel culture does pose some problems in the realm of human discourse, but that said, my experience with christianity is that they have/had hoaned cancel culture to a very fine edge indeed and as such have no leg to stand on when complaining about cancel culture as it impacts them individually or corporately, or the leaders they support.

I got repeatedly canceled growing up. Canceled, devalued, relegated to hell, relegated to a place of such personal horror as to be paralyzed with fear; fear of continuing to live and fear of killing myself, knowing that I'd only wake up being tortured forever in the fire of hell. 



“There's no grays, only white that's got grubby. I'm surprised you don't know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That's what sin is.” - Terry Pratchett
Re: The Assault on LGBTQ Rights  [message #77621 is a reply to message #77620] Fri, 05 February 2021 22:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13607



"Teddy wrote on Fri, 05 February 2021 19:45"

"Bensiamin wrote on Thu, 04 February 2021 09:46"
As nationalistic despots have shown through the ages, they use groups of people as scapegoats to drive the furor of the populace.

--
This reminds me of a discussion I saw on social media the other day bemoaning the phenomenon of "Cancel Culture" where if someone is disagreed with they get banned or removed from the group or ostraciized or whatever. It got me to thinking about my experience growing up wihthin evangelical christianity. I've got to say that in my opinion cancel culture does pose some problems in the realm of human discourse, but that said, my experience with christianity is that they have/had hoaned cancel culture to a very fine edge indeed and as such have no leg to stand on when complaining about cancel culture as it impacts them individually or corporately, or the leaders they support.

I got repeatedly canceled growing up. Canceled, devalued, relegated to hell, relegated to a place of such personal horror as to be paralyzed with fear; fear of continuing to live and fear of killing myself, knowing that I'd only wake up being tortured forever in the fire of hell. 

--
I was so traumatised by it here that I became homophobic

I then had the wit to cancel religion from my life, though I dabbled with it a little in the late 1990s until I remembered and saw clearly what it was



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: The Assault on LGBTQ Rights  [message #77625 is a reply to message #77621] Wed, 10 February 2021 20:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Teddy is currently offline  Teddy

Really getting into it
Location: USA
Registered: October 2006
Messages: 475



"timmy wrote on Fri, 05 February 2021 14:41"

"Teddy wrote on Fri, 05 February 2021 19:45"

"Bensiamin wrote on Thu, 04 February 2021 09:46"
As nationalistic despots have shown through the ages, they use groups of people as scapegoats to drive the furor of the populace.

--
This reminds me of a discussion I saw on social media the other day bemoaning the phenomenon of "Cancel Culture" where if someone is disagreed with they get banned or removed from the group or ostraciized or whatever. It got me to thinking about my experience growing up wihthin evangelical christianity. I've got to say that in my opinion cancel culture does pose some problems in the realm of human discourse, but that said, my experience with christianity is that they have/had hoaned cancel culture to a very fine edge indeed and as such have no leg to stand on when complaining about cancel culture as it impacts them individually or corporately, or the leaders they support.

I got repeatedly canceled growing up. Canceled, devalued, relegated to hell, relegated to a place of such personal horror as to be paralyzed with fear; fear of continuing to live and fear of killing myself, knowing that I'd only wake up being tortured forever in the fire of hell. 

--
I was so traumatised by it here that I became homophobic

I then had the wit to cancel religion from my life, though I dabbled with it a little in the late 1990s until I remembered and saw clearly what it was

--
Yeah, I canceled it from my life as well but gradually as I grew in my understanding of life and my place in it. Now I consider myself spiritual but not religious. Religion if for people who are trying to escape hell. Spirituality is for those of us who've already been there.

[Updated on: Wed, 10 February 2021 20:57]




“There's no grays, only white that's got grubby. I'm surprised you don't know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That's what sin is.” - Terry Pratchett
Re: The Assault on LGBTQ Rights  [message #77626 is a reply to message #76756] Fri, 12 February 2021 08:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Talo Segura is currently offline  Talo Segura

Likes it here
Location: Europe
Registered: July 2019
Messages: 103



Being Gay in Morocco in 2020.
Yassine returned from Europe to Casablanca with his parents when he was six years old. In college he experienced his first flirtation with girls, but as he explains: "I was also attracted to boys but at this age, you generally learn about things of love with both. My father and mother provided me with a conservative education, but since they had followed a scientific course, they made me aware from the age of 11 on the risks of unprotected sex with girls. In their eyes, homosexuality did not even exist as an option."

"I definitely knew I was gay when I started sleeping regularly with a boy I knew. Before, I didn't really ask myself the question of my sexual orientation. In environments where co-education is very controlled, touching between boys or between girls is commonplace. We discover our body and that of the other, generally the cousin, the playmate or the neighbor of the neighborhood. It begins with touching willies games in childhood and it happens that in adolescence it evolves into a homosexual relationship, "explains Yassine.

Homoeroticism has long existed in Arab literature and poetry, as shown by the famous pamphlets of Abu Nuwâs under the Abbasid caliphate at the end of the 8th century. Homosexuals and transvestites were also relatively tolerated in Moroccan society before the spread, in the aftermath of the Iranian revolution of 1979, of Islamist ideology. This was disseminated by the Muslim Brotherhood movement and then by the Salafist nebula within universities, before conquering the popular layers and part of the middle class. This return to religiosity was unsurprisingly to the detriment of women, laity and sexual minorities.

In the streets, especially working class neighbourhoods you need to blend in and not stick out. Something Yassine hates, but which is not without consequences: - Yassine, who then pays the price for his refusal to submit to the dictates of a homophobic street: "They insulted me, they spat on me or they threw stones at me. I am small in stature and rather puny. Once, a bunch of young thugs, there must have been eight, pulled me violently by my T-shirt then pulled me into a dead end where they all started to fiddle with me. I managed to escape them to take refuge in a supermarket."

"In this phallocratic society, with women, we are the outlet for machos and their frustrations. The resentment of homophobes is even stronger towards effeminate gays, perceived as sexually passive. They say they do not understand how the latter accept to lower themselves to the position of women when God has given them the chance to be born men. This is what virility comes down to in their eyes, to gain the upper hand, to have control even in bed."

The only openly "gay friendly" nightclub in the metropolis (Casablanca) of 6 million souls closed its doors a few years ago. Ensuring discretion and anonymity, dating applications have dethroned classic "flirting" places such as bars and cafes. It is very rare that a registrant on Grindr, Hornet or Planet Romeo displays his true identity. The subscribers exchange a few words and photos in private before making an appointment.

From time to time, the local press indeed reports assaults or even villainous murders of homosexuals by small-time bandits. Some are attracted by the greed, others by convenience, according to our young interlocutor: "On applications intended for sexual minorities, we also meet heterosexual men who seek ease. In fact, to share a moment of intimacy with a girl, when you are not living alone, you have to rent an apartment or take two rooms in a hotel, since there is a demand for a marriage contract for couples of the opposite sex. . It is stressful, risky and costly. With a boy, these problems do not arise, we can even receive him at his family. "

Indeed, if article 489 of the Moroccan Penal Code punishes from 6 months to 3 years imprisonment "licentious or unnatural acts with an individual of the same sex", article 490 of the same text of the law stipulates that the relations sexual intercourse outside marriage is punished by one month to one year of imprisonment.

"There is nothing to build here as a homosexual, everything you experience is ephemeral. We see his exes posting photos of their wedding or their first child on Facebook or Instagram. Many do not assume to be gay. They even display an outrageous homophobia while continuing to live an underground homosexuality , "laments Yassine.

Then Yassine concludes with resignation: "But the change will perhaps happen when I turn 70... I have no future here. Either I stay in Morocco and I fight for a few crumbs of rights, or I decide to leave it for a country where I can live freely, in accordance with who I am. The second option is the one I chose. "

Extracts from: Homosexual in Morocco 2020: The triple punishmentIn the kingdom, homosexuality is hated by the man of faith, vilified by the man in the street, punished by the lawyer, and most gays hide their sexual orientationBy TILILA MOUSSAOUI - 18 June 2020The Times of Israĕl.

Read the full article: https://fr.timesofisrael.com/homosexuelle-dans-le-maroc-de-2 020-la-triple-peine/
Re: The Assault on LGBTQ Rights  [message #77627 is a reply to message #76756] Thu, 18 February 2021 18:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bensiamin is currently offline  Bensiamin

Likes it here
Location: USA
Registered: July 2019
Messages: 316



AND, HERE'S A STUDY IN IRONY!

http://forum.iomfats.org/?t=getfile&id=5271&private=0

Which, funnily correlates with this kind of flat-earth mindset!

http://forum.iomfats.org/?t=getfile&id=5274&private=0

[Updated on: Thu, 18 February 2021 18:36]




Bensiamin
Re: The Assault on LGBTQ Rights  [message #77628 is a reply to message #77627] Mon, 22 February 2021 17:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13607



Let me read that again.  That means ~gasp~ Texas has been held  hostage by LGBT folks?



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: The Assault on LGBTQ Rights  [message #77629 is a reply to message #76756] Sat, 27 February 2021 17:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bensiamin is currently offline  Bensiamin

Likes it here
Location: USA
Registered: July 2019
Messages: 316



In a particularly American moment last week, US Senators were interviewing candidates for positions in the Biden administration, including a trans physician for Assistant Secretary of Health. The statements by Sen. Rand Paul, coming after an earlier-in-the-day behavioral rant by another member of Congress, prompted a particularly astute piece on Medium overnight.

http://forum.iomfats.org/?t=getfile&id=5275&private=0

While it does focus on the Republican obsession on trans people, that view and belief system is of a piece with their view of the entire LGBTQ population, as evedenced by all the previous posts on this forum string.

The article by Thomas West is worth reading to more fully understand how toxic it really is, as evidenced by this quote:

The truth is, though, that this is today's Republican Party. They're no longer content fan the flames of the culture war by draping it in the trappings of religious liberty or religious belief -- as George W. Bush did in 2004 and as GOP politicians such as Mike Pence did in more recent years. Instead, they want to take a huge can of gasoline and pour it over the fire, utterly uncaring about the effects that it might have (sound familiar?)

You can link to the article in Medium here.

[Updated on: Sat, 27 February 2021 17:07]




Bensiamin
Re: The Assault on LGBTQ Rights  [message #77634 is a reply to message #77629] Wed, 03 March 2021 05:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ray2x is currently offline  ray2x

Really getting into it
Location: USA
Registered: April 2009
Messages: 420



where there's fire and brimstone, most likely there's a republican male who's trying to hide his not so secret secret of being drawn to males...
Re: The Assault on LGBTQ Rights  [message #77639 is a reply to message #77634] Wed, 03 March 2021 23:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Teddy is currently offline  Teddy

Really getting into it
Location: USA
Registered: October 2006
Messages: 475



"ray2x wrote on Tue, 02 March 2021 21:59"
where there's fire and brimstone, most likely there's a republican male who's trying to hide his not so secret secret of being drawn to males...

--
Yessss! It is the age old tell of someone who is fighting that losing, internal battle. It can be spotted by the rest of us of a certain age every time, principally because we've fought the same battle to a greater or lesser degree in our own lives at some point and know what it looks like.



“There's no grays, only white that's got grubby. I'm surprised you don't know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That's what sin is.” - Terry Pratchett
Re: The Assault on LGBTQ Rights  [message #77650 is a reply to message #77639] Mon, 15 March 2021 15:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bensiamin is currently offline  Bensiamin

Likes it here
Location: USA
Registered: July 2019
Messages: 316



WHY DOES IT COME AS NO SURPRISE THAT THE VATICAN RULES OUT BLESSINGS FOR SAME-SEX RELATIONSHIPS?

Notwithstanding all the kind words from Pope Francis over the past few years, and in correspondence with the vehement opposition the Pope received from conservative Catholic quarters, here we are!

http://forum.iomfats.org/?t=getfile&id=5280&private=0

The news release notes that "the Vatican's doctrinal office, in a document personally approved by Pope Francis, said it wasn't permissible for clergy to pronounce blessings on any relationship outside of marriage between a man and a woman," which "reaffirms Catholic teaching on marriage and sexuality..."

As has been noted by others, the Catechism of the Roman Catholic Church has remained the same over the years, in spite of moves by liberal bishops and kind words from the Pope.

The more things change, the more they remain the same!

Link to the Wall Street Journal piece here.

More detail on the Roman Catholic doctrinal position in our LGBTQ and Faith section here.

[Updated on: Mon, 15 March 2021 16:00]




Bensiamin
Re: The Assault on LGBTQ Rights  [message #77657 is a reply to message #77650] Sat, 20 March 2021 16:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bensiamin is currently offline  Bensiamin

Likes it here
Location: USA
Registered: July 2019
Messages: 316



Galllup's latest poll on LGBT self-identification is both heartening and should be a dire warning to governments and institutions trying to restrict or outlaw same-sex civil rights.

The poll of over 15,000 Americans 18 and older was conducted in 2020 and found that those who self-identify as LGBT had risen to 5.6%, up 1.1% from 2017.

Among the striking findings was that more than half of LGBT adults identified as bisexual meaning 3.1% of the US population is bisexual. That is surely an indicator of significant changes in both the overall social environment that allows people to express their true sexuality, as well as the generational differences wherein younger people are more accepting and honest about themselves.

The demographic breakdown by generation is quite striking:
 
 http://forum.iomfats.org/?t=getfile&id=5282&private=0
 
These generational differences raise questions, as Gallup noted, contrasting openness to identify against older generation's denial.

"The pronounced generational differences raise questions about whether higher LGBT identification in younger than older Americans reflects a true shift in sexual orientation, or if it merely reflects a greater willingness of younger people toidentify as LGBT. To the extent it reflects older Americans not wanting to acknowledge an LGBT orientation, the Gallup estimates may underestimate the actual population prevalence of it."

Read the Gallup poll study here.

[Updated on: Sat, 20 March 2021 16:41]




Bensiamin
Re: The Assault on LGBTQ Rights  [message #77663 is a reply to message #76756] Wed, 24 March 2021 17:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bensiamin is currently offline  Bensiamin

Likes it here
Location: USA
Registered: July 2019
Messages: 316



COULD THIS LEAD TO A SECOND REFORMATION?

Breaking news on the LGBTQ front: massive German church pushback against the Pope's recent declaration that the Church will not bless same-sex unions or marriages.

http://forum.iomfats.org/?t=getfile&id=5283&private=0

The number of clerics and theologians who signed the opposition statement is striking, as is the core of their proclamation:

"A document that in its argumentation so blatantly excludes any progress in theological and human scientific knowledge will lead to pastoral practice ignoring it," Georg Bätzing, Bishop of Limburg, said in a statement published on Facebook on Wednesday. He continues, "We need a re-evaluation of same-sex partnerships and a further development of the church's sexual morality."

The first statement makes sense coming from a local church that is trying to be inclusive and minister to the needs of alll its people. The second, though, about re-evaluating and further developing the church's understanding of sexual morality puts them on a collision course with The Congregation For The Doctrine of the Faith, the body responsible for the purity of the church's doctrine and theology.

As we've noted previously, in spite of everything Pope Francis said that sounded LGB-friendly, the Catechism hasn't change, and as long as the core doctrines remain what they are, the conservatives will fight to the death to preserve them!

Read the full CNN World piece here

[Updated on: Wed, 24 March 2021 17:12]




Bensiamin
Re: The Assault on LGBTQ Rights  [message #77665 is a reply to message #77663] Wed, 24 March 2021 20:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Pedro

Toe is in the water

Registered: March 2014
Messages: 84



I read somewhere, in source that appeared reputable but alas I have lost the detail, that the early church was accepting of same sex relationships and even had a rite offering some kind of blessing. Some Pope around the 13c decided it would enhance his temporal authority in the world to take a different position. Probably banning priests marrying at about the same time.
If they can ignore the precedent of the first 1000 years of the church, I find it irksome that they won't modify subsequent doctrine back to the original position. But that would upset the egos of the conservatives in the church heirarchy who think things should be run their way. No different to the rest of the world unfortunately.



Pedro
Re: The Assault on LGBTQ Rights  [message #77667 is a reply to message #77663] Wed, 24 March 2021 21:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Al N. is currently offline  Al N.

Getting started
Location: Idaho, USA
Registered: July 2018
Messages: 21




Shades of Martin Luther, are my first thoughts! This is as close to outright rebellion as I've seen in my lifetime (caveat: I became Catholic in 1993).

On the one hand, I continue to disagree with the Church's stance, in light of current scientific understanding on the nature of human sexuality. On the other hand, I find it consistent with its former stance against Galileo (one can judge an actor's future actions, based upon former actions of the same merit).

I know that there is a lot of dissention within the American Church (there are however, no public outcrys, from American Bishops, against this doctrine from 1100 a.d. - which became dogma around 1300 a.d.). This apparent uprising in Germany, combined with the attitudes of many American Bishops, makes me wonder if we are going to see another split within the Church.

The Christian Church (all of the various sects) would do well to take to heart my favorite scene from The West Wing - Bible Lesson. It does refute the selective interpretation of Old Testament laws, in its entirety.

[Updated on: Wed, 24 March 2021 21:55]

Re: The Assault on LGBTQ Rights  [message #77672 is a reply to message #77665] Thu, 25 March 2021 15:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bensiamin is currently offline  Bensiamin

Likes it here
Location: USA
Registered: July 2019
Messages: 316



The reference you're alluding to was work done by John Boswell on same-sex unions, that documented the tolerance for homosexuality (actually for the range of human sexuality because the terms homo/hetero sexual weren't coined until 1877) in the early church. We've incorporated the info into one of the pages in the LGBTQ and Faith page on this site at:

http://iomfats.org/spirit/underlying-doctrine.html

Three high points:
  • Third Lateran Council: held in 1179, was the first Roman Catholic council to proscribe (a technical term for condemning) homosexuality. Really? It took almost 1200 years?
  • The Third Lateran Council begins the condemnation, though, which continued to develop in the Catholic Church because now clergy were bound to be celibate
  • since the Third Lateran Council, the Catholic church has consistently declared homosexual acts to be intrinsically disordered.

The last point is fundamentally important because it is baked into the Church's doctrine, theology and catechism. It is textual, not just one person (even one Pope's) opinion.




Bensiamin
Re: The Assault on LGBTQ Rights  [message #77673 is a reply to message #77667] Thu, 25 March 2021 16:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bensiamin is currently offline  Bensiamin

Likes it here
Location: USA
Registered: July 2019
Messages: 316



A gentleman named Dave Hill, who has a wry sense of humor compiled the entire Levitical Law list on his blog. It's from this list that the President selected for his rant in that West Wing segment. Interesting how contemporary humans are so selective in which of these they choose to enforce!

1.       Burning any yeast or honey in offerings to God (2:11) [Normal penalty.]
2.       Failing to include salt in offerings to God (2:13) [Normal penalty.]
3.       Eating fat (3:17) [That one's "a lasting ordinance for the generations to come, wherever you live." All fat is to be saved for offerings to God. Normal penalty.]
4.       Eating blood (3:17) [Normal penalty]
5.       Failing to testify against any wrongdoing you've witnessed (5:1) ["They will be held responsible."]
6.       Failing to testify against any wrongdoing you've been told about (5:1) [Which sounds like hearsay. At any rate, "they shall be held responsible."]
7.       Touching an unclean animal (5:2) [NIV translates this as touching "the carcass" of an unclean animal. So if Rover dies, or you're a worker in a pork plant, you're in trouble here. Normal penalty.]
8.       Carelessly making an oath (5:4) [Even if you don't realize you have. Normal penalty.]
9.       Deceiving a neighbour about something trusted to them (6:2) [Return the item and a 20% penalty, plus normal penalty.]
10.   Finding lost property and lying about it (6:3) [Return the item and a 20% penalty, plus normal penalty.]
11.   Bringing unauthorised fire before God (10:1) [God will smite you.]
12.   Letting your hair become unkempt (10:6) ["You will die" and God will be angry at everyone. May only apply to the priesthood.]
13.   Tearing your clothes (10:6) ["You will die" and God will be angry at everyone. May only apply to the priesthood.]
14.   Drinking alcohol in holy places (bit of a problem for Catholics, this 'un) (10:9) ["You will die." May only apply to the priesthood.]
15.   Eating an animal which doesn't both chew cud and has a divided hoof (cf: camel, rabbit, pig) (11:4-7) ["You will be unclean.]
16.   Touching the carcass of any of the above (problems here for rugby) (11:8) ["You will be unclean."]
17.   Eating or touching the carcass of any seafood without fins or scales (11:10-12) ["You will be unclean."]
18.   Eating or touching the carcass of  eagle, the vulture, the black vulture, the red kite, any kind of black kite, any kind of raven, the horned owl, the screech owl, the gull, any kind of hawk, the little owl, the cormorant, the great owl, the white owl, the desert owl, the osprey, the stork, any kind of heron, the hoopoe and the bat. (11:13-19) ["You will be unclean."]
19.   Eating or touching the carcass of flying insects with four legs, unless those legs are jointed (11:20-22) ["You will be unclean."]
20.   Eating any animal which walks on all four and has paws (good news for cats) (11:27)  ["You will be unclean." Also applies to touching their carcasses.]
21.   Eating or touching the carcass of the weasel, the rat, any kind of great lizard,the gecko, the monitor lizard, the wall lizard, the skink and the chameleon (11:29) ["You will be unclean."]
22.   Eating or touching the carcass of any creature which crawls on many legs, or its belly (11:41-42) ["You will be unclean."]
23.   Going to church within 33 days after giving birth to a boy (12:4) [Actually, she's unclean a week, and then another 33 days. Then she has to offer up a sacrifice.]
24.   Going to church within 66 days after giving birth to a girl (12:5) [Actually, she's unclean a week, and then another 66 days. Then she has to offer up a sacrifice.]
25.   Having sex with your mother (18:7) [The penalty for all the sexual sins in ch. 18 is that the participants are to be "cut off" from their people. Some have additional penalties mentioned below.]
26.   Having sex with your father's wife (18:8) [In 20:11, both are to be put to death.]
27.   Having sex with your sister (18:9) [In 20:17, if you marry her, both are to be "publicly removed from their people"]
28.   Having sex with your granddaughter (18:10)
29.   Having sex with your half-sister (18:11)
30.   Having sex with your biological aunt (18:12-13) [In 20:19, he will be held responsible for the dishonor.]
31.   Having sex with your uncle's wife (18:14) [In 20:20, they are held responsible for the dishonor, "they will die childless"]
32.   Having sex with your daughter-in-law (18:15) [In 20:12, both are to be put to death.]
33.   Having sex with your sister-in-law (18:16) [In 20:21, if you marry her, "they will be childless."]
34.   Having sex with a woman and also having sex with her daughter or granddaughter (bad news for Alan Clark) (18:17) [No specific penalty given, but per 20:14 if you marry both of them, all three of you are to be "burned in fire."]
35.   Marrying your wife's sister while your wife still lives (18:18)
36.   Having sex with a woman during her period (18:19) [15:24 simply says the man will be considered unclean for 7 days. In 20:18, "Both of them are to be cut off from their people"]
37.   Having sex with your neighbour's wife (18:20) [In 20:10, both are to be put to death.]
38.   Giving your children to be sacrificed to Molek (18:21) [In 20:2, the person is to be stoned to death.]
39.   Having sex with a man "as one does with a woman" (18:22) [In 20:13, both are to be put to death.]
40.   Having sex with an animal (18:23) [In 20:15, both are to be killed.]
41.   Making idols or "metal gods" (19:4) [No penalty given.]
42.   Reaping to the very edges of a field (19:9) [To be left for the poor. No penalty given.]
43.   Picking up grapes that have fallen in your  vineyard (19:10) [To be left for the poor. No penalty given.]
44.   Stealing (19:11) [No penalty given.]
45.   Lying (19:11) [No penalty given.]
46.   Swearing falsely on God's name (19:12) [No penalty given.]
47.   Defrauding your neighbour (19:13) [No penalty given.]
48.   Holding back the wages of an employee overnight (not well observed these days) (19:13) [No penalty given.]
49.   Cursing the deaf or abusing the blind (19:14) [No penalty given.]
50.   Perverting justice, showing partiality to either the poor or the rich (19:15) [No penalty given.]
51.   Spreading slander (19:16) [No penalty given.]
52.   Doing anything to endanger a neighbour's life (19:16) [No penalty given.]
53.   Seeking revenge or bearing a grudge (19:18) [No penalty given.]
54.   Mixing fabrics in clothing (19:19) [No penalty given.]
55.   Cross-breeding animals (19:19) [No penalty given.]
56.   Planting different seeds in the same field (19:19) [No penalty given.]
57.   Sleeping with another man's slave (19:20) ["Due punishment," but not death, just a ram for sacrifice.]
58.   Eating fruit from a tree within four years of planting it (19:23) [No penalty given. May only apply to fruit trees planted in Israel.]
59.   Practising divination or seeking omens (tut, tut astrology) (19:26) [No penalty, but in 20:6 they will be "cut off from their people" by God. In 20:27, they are to be stoned to death.]
60.   Trimming your beard (19:27) [No penalty given.]
61.   Cutting your hair at the sides (19:27) [No penalty given.]
62.   Getting tattoos (19:28) [No penalty given.]
63.   Making your daughter prostitute herself (19:29) ["The land will turn to prostitution." No other penalty given.]
64.   Turning to mediums or spiritualists (19:31) [No penalty given.]
65.   Not standing in the presence of the elderly (19:32) [No penalty given.]
66.   Mistreating foreigners "the foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born"  (19:33-34) [No penalty  given.]
67.   Using dishonest weights and scales (19:35-36) [No penalty given.]
68.   Cursing your father or mother (punishable by death) (20:9) [Death, as noted.]
69.   Marrying a prostitute, divorcee or widow if you are a priest (21:7,13) [No penalty given.]
70.   Entering a place where there's a dead body as a priest (21:11) [I.e., if you're a priest. No penalty given.]
71.   Slaughtering a cow/sheep and its young on the same day (22:28) [May apply only to sacrificial animals. No penalty given.]
72.   Working on the Sabbath (23:3) [No penalty given.]
73.   Blasphemy (punishable by stoning to death) (24:14) [Death.]
74.   Inflicting an injury; killing someone else's animal; killing a person must be punished in kind (24:17-22) [Killing someone means death. Injuring someone mean punishment in kind. Killing or injuring another's animal means punishment in kind.]
75.   Selling land permanently (25:23) [No penalty given.]
76.   Selling an Israelite as a slave (foreigners are fine) (25:42) [No penalty given.]
 




Bensiamin
Re: The Assault on LGBTQ Rights  [message #77698 is a reply to message #77673] Wed, 31 March 2021 15:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bensiamin is currently offline  Bensiamin

Likes it here
Location: USA
Registered: July 2019
Messages: 316



The latest of the reaction to Pope Francis' pronouncement on LGBTQ people and the Catholic Church

http://forum.iomfats.org/?t=getfile&id=5284&private=0

James Finn, has written a piece following up on the news of Pope Francis' recent pronouncement (detailed in March 25 post above), and it makes two very telling points. The first is that there is mounting reactioin, in fact outgrage, within progressive Catholic circles, to say nothing of non-catholic religious people! People are protesting, clergy are starting to resign. Maybe this is the beginning of another Reformation. Remember, Al Norris described it as "shades of Martin Luther!"

Second, while the mainstream press is not diving deep at all into the significance of the proclamation, the details are being disclosed for the world to see. Consider this quote from the article:

Anti-LGBTQ religious teachings are the last bastion of socially acceptable bigotry against minorities. Most people, even or especially progressive people, seem reluctant to face it. In situations where they would deplore racism or sexism without compromise, they forgive religious homophobia, often citing the Catholic Church's reputation for social justice in other arenas.
That has to end.
The world leader who wrote me has gone on the record to deplore Catholic Church language that says LGBTQ people are "intrinsically disordered" and commit acts of "grave depravity."
That's what Pope Francis endorsed when he signed off on a document (a responsum ad dubium in Church language) that explicitly affirmed those teachings. Progressive Catholics and LGBTQ advocates all over the word were appalled -- especially because popes seldom personally sign off on responsa. Explicit papal affirmation is unusual and remarkable.
Mainstream press have mostly downplayed the story by focusing on how the responsum forbids priests from blessing same-sex unions. Few outlets have reported the broader issue, that the papal-approved responsum drew a harsh and dehumanizing line in the sand:

  • The Church will continue to teach that LGBTQ people are disordered and depraved
  • Priests should withhold blessings from individual gay people who are not celibate
  • Gay people who are not celibate cannot participate in the full life of the Church
  • Doctrinal reform will not happen, no question or negotiation possible
  • Catholics all over the world are up in arms

Large institutions do not move quickly, much like large cargo ships stuck cross-wise in the Suez Canal! We'll have to see how this plays out. At least, though, the core problem of Catholic doctrine and theology is coming into clear view, and perhaps it will not only achieve improvement in the Catholic Church, but elsewhere too!

You can read the entire piece within Prism and Pen at Medium here. If you have trouble getting to it and want to read the article, reply back and I'll send it by email as a PDF.

[Updated on: Wed, 31 March 2021 15:42]




Bensiamin
Re: The Assault on LGBTQ Rights  [message #77751 is a reply to message #77698] Sun, 11 April 2021 16:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bensiamin is currently offline  Bensiamin

Likes it here
Location: USA
Registered: July 2019
Messages: 316



Much of this Forum string has been to illustrate and document the ongoing process by which LGBTQ people have become targets in the conservative political culture wars. The four years under Trump saw the amplification of the effort to overturn same-sex marriage rights, and the increasing attacks on transgender rights. 

In today's New York Times, Frank Bruni has a very good Op-Ed describing this process and how doubling down on attacking trans rights has become part of the conservative playbook after major losses in the last election:

They're inventing a problem to whip up a culture war that they're convinced will redound to their benefit. Worried that their party can't retain or wrest power with its positions on the economy and prescriptions (or lack thereof) for health care, they're fighting on other turf, with no pause to contemplate the need for their offensives and no thought for the casualties.


You can read the Op-Ed here.



Bensiamin
Re: The Assault on LGBTQ Rights  [message #77797 is a reply to message #77751] Tue, 04 May 2021 17:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bensiamin is currently offline  Bensiamin

Likes it here
Location: USA
Registered: July 2019
Messages: 316



I've waited a couple of days to write about this to make certain I wasn't over-reacting or being excessively paranoid. However, after much thought and finally a long conversation with a minister friend, it has to be said. Conservative American Christians are taking it to the next level, and the LGBTQ community is the target.

http://forum.iomfats.org/?t=getfile&id=5286&private=0

To the degree this proposed rally actually comes off, Promise Keepers is back. What is most important is that now it's not just an evangelical Christian group promoting Christian patriarchy, but they're fusing that with American white nationalism in opposition to everything LGBTQ which is not only (they assert) causing the undoing of American family values, but threatening to destroy everything they believe in.

When I spoke to my minister friend, after expressing his own disgust and nausea, all he could sadly say was "We've seen this before." What he meant was how white nationalist Aryanism came into being and developed in Germany in the 1930's with a political and nationalistic focus... and how over time the majority of both the Protestant and Catholic churches were coopted, and ultimately many of those churches fused their so-called beliefs with Nazi Aryanism. Where it ended wasn't just the elimination of rights for certain groups, but the elimination of whole groups of people: Jews, Gypsies, Homosexuals, etc.

Paul Krugman, the Op-Ed economist who writes for the New York Times made an interesting point in a piece today about how most of the Republican party is using "the culture wars" to fight against the Biden administration's policies... instead of countering with alternative proposals. Their cry is that the proposed policies will destroy family values. Krugman cites a lot of data to counter that argument and then says, "It turns out that Victorian family values aren't as essential to society as many thought." And, then he goes on to conclude, "Now, if there's one thing we've learned about modern U.S. politics it is that conservatives won't stop trying to wage culture war because of facts that don't fit their narrative."

We should not think this is limited to the crazies in America. Don't forget the collaboration between Nigel Farage and Donald Trump in the UK, and the Brexit problem that resulted. Or the appearance of Steve Bannon at many European nationalist organizations. Most European countries have their nationalist organizations too, and they are all linked together. This has the potential to become a real threat, not something to be laughed at as another crazy American religious movement.

Read the LGBTQ article here.

[Updated on: Tue, 04 May 2021 17:08]




Bensiamin
Re: The Assault on LGBTQ Rights  [message #78128 is a reply to message #76756] Wed, 08 September 2021 15:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bensiamin is currently offline  Bensiamin

Likes it here
Location: USA
Registered: July 2019
Messages: 316



As Andy Grove, the former CEO of Intel said many years ago, "Only the paranoid survive."

Well, folks... time to get paranoid, as a piece in LGBTQ Nation so painfully pointed out.

Why?

Because the five right-wing justices of the Supreme Court who decided to uphold Texas's anti-abortion law last week are sending a strong signal about the shaky future of LGBTQ rights, including marriage equality. In case you don't know them by name, they are: Samuel Alito, Amy Coney Barrett, Neil Gorsuch, Brett Kavanaugh and Clarence Thomas.

For the Right To Life crowd, the ultimate goal is in reach: overturning Roe v. Wade entirely.

As we've been pointing out in this forum string for some time, the next law they want to see overturned is Obergefell v. Hodges, the Supreme Court ruling that legalized marriage equality.

That's inconceivable, right?

Wrong, because Alito and Thomas have made it abundantly clear that they think Obergefell was wrongly decided.

In a decision last year Thomas said:

"By choosing to privilege a novel constitutional right over the religious liberty interests explicitly protected in the First Amendment, and by doing so undemocratically, the Court has created a problem that only it can fix. Until then, Obergefell will continue to have 'ruinous consequences for religious liberty." He was joined in the opinion by Alito.

The course has been set and this is where America is going as long as the right-wing Christian conservatives are in positions of power. It's time for everyone to become an activist and get involved at the local community and state level.

Read the LGBTQ Nation piece here




Bensiamin
Re: The Assault on LGBTQ Rights  [message #78142 is a reply to message #76756] Mon, 20 September 2021 20:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bensiamin is currently offline  Bensiamin

Likes it here
Location: USA
Registered: July 2019
Messages: 316



Those watching today's news know that SCOTUS has agreed to hear the case about the Mississippi abortion law on Dec. 1, one of the state-level cases in the US aimed at overturning Roe vs. Wade. Specifically, Mississippi's Attorney General argued in their brief that Roe v. Wade was "egregiously wrong" and should be overturned, and went on to assert that "The conclusion that abortion is a Constitutional right has no basis in text, structure, history, or tradition" Fitch told the justices, and went on to further assert that the case for overturning Roe is "overwhelming." Read the CNN article here.

Given the subject of this Forum string and the connection that far right Christian activists have been making that connects overturning abortion rights with overturning same-sex marriage rights, it's worth noting two other developments documented by LGBTQ Nation.

Former Texas Solicitor General Jonathan Mitchell "who played a key role in writing the new Texas ban on abortions after the sixth week of pregnancy, argued in a Supreme Court brief that the decisions that legalized same-sex relations and same-sex marriages in all 50 states should both be overturned along with Roe v. Wade, the historic Supreme Court decision that recognized the right to abortion."

Mitchell goes on to argue that women don't' need a right to abortion and can avoid the need "by refraining from sexual intercourse."

This strategy is comprehensive, as Mitchell further argues that overturning Roe would put in jeopardy both Lawrence v. Texas and Obergefell v. Hodges. He described those rights (decriminalizing consensual gay sex and legalizing marriage equality) as "judicial concoctions and asserted that there isn't a "fundamental right to marry" in US legal tradition, and that there is only a "right to marry an opposite-sex spouse that must be protected. Red the LGBTQ Nation article here.

As if that isn't enough for one day, Pope Francis was recently pinned down by Italian journalists on whether he would support pending EU legislation that would recognize marriage equality across Europe. He said, No. "Marriage is a sacrament. The church doesn't have the power to change sacraments." To his credit he did say he supports civil rights and legislative measures that protect gay people, but is clearly supporting a sacred/secular dichotomy by denying same-sex marriage within the Church while supporting it in broader society.

This goes along with earlier Catholic Church affirmations this year restating the official stance that homosexual acts are "intrinsically immoral and contrary to the natural law," and that the church will not bless same-sex unions or relationships because they are sinful. Read the LGBTQ Nation article here.

The conservative Christian churches and the religious right wing are clearly closing ranks together to enforce their cultural view, and at least in the US will be working diligently to removed same-sex marriage rights!

We all need to ask ourselves what we are going to do to opposed this and assure these rights are not taken away, remembering that "the price of liberty is eternal vigilance!"




Bensiamin
Re: The Assault on LGBTQ Rights  [message #78188 is a reply to message #76756] Fri, 05 November 2021 09:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13607



And now in Illinois a school has an Anti Queer "club".



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: The Assault on LGBTQ Rights  [message #78189 is a reply to message #78188] Fri, 05 November 2021 15:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bensiamin is currently offline  Bensiamin

Likes it here
Location: USA
Registered: July 2019
Messages: 316



The amazing thing, off the top, is that this is happening in Illinois rather than Texas or Alabama!

And the most telling detail underlying this is the language in the survey: "No, I don't want queer kids to go to the bathroom with us normal people."

The framing is that homosexuality is abnormal, and it illustrates that the culture wars are alive and well in the US. And don't lose sight of the fact that for these culture warriors reversing LGBTQ rights comes just after reversing a woman's right to an abortion!



Bensiamin
Re: The Assault on LGBTQ Rights  [message #78190 is a reply to message #76756] Sat, 06 November 2021 07:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
James K is currently offline  James K

Getting started

Registered: August 2021
Messages: 26



One person, below, illustrated the law applicable in the USA, the Equal Access Act 1984. I would say if the law has been applied correctly, then it is this law which needs changing. It would appear that virtually any extra-curricular clubs are allowed in US high schools, so you could have the Anti-Semitic, or Anti-Muslim clubs, and why not the Anti-colour, it's nonsense and quite obvious excluding clubs should not be allowed, anywhere.[/font-size]

As a non-US citizen it seems looking in from the outside, the USA puts too much weight behind liberty of expression at the expense of freedom for all. This obsession with the protection of personal liberty allows for the victimisation and persecution of anyone and any group within society that some people object to. One is entitled to ones opinion, no matter how bigoted and racist, but one should not be allowed the freedom to propagate such views amongst the general public, at least not in the form of establishing clubs aimed at denigrating vicitmising other citizens and students. As a final thought, there ought to be a law against the [/font-size]propagation of hate, which should be made illegal, then this situation would not arise.[/font-size]

For EU citizens we have our rights protected as well as our freedom:
Any discrimination based on any ground such as sex, race, colour, ethnic or social origin, genetic features, language, religion or belief, political or any other opinion, membership of a national minority, property, birth, disability, age or sexual orientation shall be prohibited.

Within the scope of application of the Treaty establishing the European Community and of the Treaty on European Union, and without prejudice to the special provisions of those treaties, any discrimination on grounds of nationality shall be prohibited.

This right is enshrined in article 21 of the Charter of Fundamental Rights.


Hank31
The Equal Access Act of 1984 requires schools to allow all extra-curricular clubs in high schools, without discriminating based on content. There are exceptions if the club engages in criminal acts or disrupts school operations, but it cannot be banned because it is offensive to others.

This is the same federal law which has allowed GSAs to form even in the most conservative school districts.So long as the Anti-Queer Alliance does not engage in violence or rules violations and is focused on fighting "queer" ideology and legislation which allows transgender abuse of single-sex spaces, it should fall within the protection of the law.

As I note below, LGB kids should join and take it over from the homophobes, since LGBs are the primary victims of "queer" ideology.

[Updated on: Sat, 06 November 2021 07:36]

Re: The Assault on LGBTQ Rights  [message #78193 is a reply to message #78190] Wed, 17 November 2021 21:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Teddy is currently offline  Teddy

Really getting into it
Location: USA
Registered: October 2006
Messages: 475



Interesting concept of the queer kids taking over the bigoted clubs to the point where they're dominant. Sadly, that's not lilkely to be a possibility or to even happen, however, in "the most conservative of high schools" as you phrased it. Sure, the queer kids and their allies can have their GSA in those high schools but their numbers will likely be too small to be effective in taking over the bigoted clubs and making them over as their own. 



“There's no grays, only white that's got grubby. I'm surprised you don't know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That's what sin is.” - Terry Pratchett
Re: The Assault on LGBTQ Rights  [message #78209 is a reply to message #76756] Thu, 02 December 2021 22:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bensiamin is currently offline  Bensiamin

Likes it here
Location: USA
Registered: July 2019
Messages: 316



This forum string has long contended that reversing abortion rights in the US is only the tip of the iceberg in the culture wars, and that overturning same-sex marriage rights and by extension LGBTQ rights in general is high on the list of goals being pursued by ultra-conservatives and conservative Christians.

Arguments in yesterday's Supreme Court case illuminates this reality in a line of questioning from Justice Sotomayor, which began with:[/font-family][/font-size][/font-size]
Sotomayor, one of the Court's three liberal judges, said that overturning Roe and Planned Parenthood v. Casey  another landmark abortion decision would attack the very idea of a right to privacy. The Constitution doesn't specifically name that right, but several cases since Roe have relied on the idea that the government should respect individuals' rights to make their own decisions, particularly when it comes to moral or sexual issues that don't hurt other people.[/font-family][/font-size]

She said the Court "recognized them in terms of the religion parents will teach their children. We've recognized it in their ability to educate at home if they choose.... We have recognized that sense of privacy in people's choices about whether to use contraception or not. We've recognized it in their right to choose who they're going to marry."The response she received and pandering questions from Justice Barrett did not satisfy her.

That argument, apparently, wasn't good enough for Sotomayor, considering there are people who rely on abortion being available and plenty of other people who believe that gay sex, marriage equality, and contraception have negative effects.[/font-family][/font-size]

So she got as close to calling him a liar as one can get in the Supreme Court.[/font-family][/font-size]Justice Sotomayor sees where this is going and is trying to make people aware and short circuit the strategy.

You can read the whole article in LGBTQ Nation here.[/font-family][/font-size]

[Updated on: Thu, 02 December 2021 22:13]




Bensiamin
Re: The Assault on LGBTQ Rights  [message #78210 is a reply to message #78209] Fri, 03 December 2021 17:43 Go to previous message
timmy

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13607



The happenings in the USA at present show strong parallels to those in authoritarian regimes.

Hard won rights are easy to erode when the authoritarians wield power.

Turkey voted for an authoritarian regime. 

A minor digression, but Wikipedia started with very few rules. Today it has policies, procedures, administrators, bureaucrats, stewards, and the most complicated rules structure volunteered for and designed by the editors who play there. So, looking at Turkey, not a digression at all, just an example of humans who wish to lead and those who wish to be led.

The USA has avoided, narrowly, Dictator Trump.

The GOP wishes to be Dictator Trump. Look how they worship him.

The USA has had, for a long time, the authoritarian tyranny of the vociferous minority who pretend, like any authoritarian leader with the potential exception of Erdogan, they are in the majority.

Europe has experience with authoritarian regimes. England used to have kings. These were the biggest bullies with the most loyal sycophants (there for the cash and power). All early societies did that.

Women have not long, in historical terms, been independent of their (essential) husbands. They used to be property. Denying abortion helps keep them pregnant or rearing children, thus out of the way of power. Denying abortion appeals to the dominant male, whose sperm tales absolute priority over the dominated male.

Next comes demonising LGBTQ folk (again) as well. It makes a handy distraction when the dictator wishes to take over. These queers don't matter, after all. Thet're deviants, and the mob can be set on them. Remember the Gay Panic defence?

The USA is only a pseudo-democracy. So are most nations who embrace the term. So was Turkey...

Apparently Turkey is a democracy today.

[Updated on: Fri, 03 December 2021 17:46]




Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Previous Topic: LugNutz
Next Topic: Netiquette here
Goto Forum: