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smith
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On fire! |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 1095
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about something I don't understand. I read an article about hormones and how they affect how I act and how I feel. The article was for straight people and confused me alot.
The stereotypical estrogen traits are gentleness, compassion, patience, helpfulness, nuturing and submissiveness.
The stereotypical testosterone traits are independence, assertiveness, competitiveness, protectivenes and toughness.
When I read those traits, I think, God help me, I'm a girl. The only male trait I really have is protectiveness. I use the others like toughness and assertiveness in real life to hide who I am. How does this work? Am I destined to have like gay PMS or what? Do you have truly "gay" moments or is it just me? Please don't laugh at this cause I've been having some bad stuff lately and I can't ask anyone else.
smith :-/
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I know of no study linking hormonal changes or deficiencies to homosexuality at all. I like to think we just get the best parts of both genders. ::-)
As for "having some bad stuff", I sure hope we can help you with that. Though it might be easier if you were more specific. If it is not to personal that is. Mood changes happen to everyone on the planet at one time or another, even Gahndi. (not sure of the spelling on that)
I am sure you will be fine soon enough.
Remember how awsome you are,
Kevin
"Be excellent to each other, and, party on dudes"!
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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First, Where did you find this article?
As for hormones.... all right, you mentioned protectiveness.... Ever get between a mother goose and her offspring? Try it and you will soon find out what protectivness is. smith, there are hundreds of (mostly pointless) surveys, articles, studies and whatnot sundry of misinformation out there.
Feel what you feel when you are feeling it. Make no assumptions. Make no rationalizations. Everyone has good days, and everyone has bad days with the full gammit of variations and intensities as well. Trust to your head and heart and you will never go wrong.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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No Message Body
"Be excellent to each other, and, party on dudes"!
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13783
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First note that they have found no significant and repeatable hormonal differences between gay and str8. Also note that we gay guys can be naturally aggressive and overly masculine, and that str8 guys can be truly effeminate.
There is a study that has been done in sheep which has been featured here before at http://forum.iomfats.org/w-agora/index.php?site=forumiomfatsorg&bn=forumiomfatsorg_placeofsafety&key=1019666454&action=view (I love the messageboard search engine). I'll post a short message on that thread to bring it nearer the surface.
It is not yet statistically significant as a scienbtific study, but it shows physical differences between the brains of gay male and str8 male sheep. There were not then any dead gay men who had bequeathed their bodies for study.
There were dead transgendered people. Their brains showed different and definite differences from non transgendered people. I mention this for "completeness". Being transgendered is not the same as being homosexual.
From the limited study I concluded that we are physically different from the heterosexual population, and thus are as natural as they, though not as widespread as they. BUT since the study showed no heredity between gay male sheep they do not know what causes us.
It is possible that we were affected in the uterus by some sort of environmental agent, or that the semen or egg were somehow affected. But no-one knows yet.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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No Message Body
"Always forgive your enemies...nothing annoys them quite so much." Oscar Wilde
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There's plenty of independent, competitive, tough (violent, etc etc etc) women in this world.
The Amazons of ancient times weren't a myth. Native African societies have had tribes with warrior women. Heck, if you want to find "warrior" women, just look at just about any slumland gang of girls, whom can be just as cruel and destructive as their testosterone counterpart.
Going by the stereotypical view, I would say I'm a girl too (and it's made worse by the fact I like guys!), so you're not in that bad company I hope... 
Don't pay too much attention to stereotypes, JJ... We should be above these silly ideas created by a patriarchal society, unfortunately we're not. Where did you read this, by the way? Just curious mind you...
Take care!
Hugs:
-L
"But he that hath the steerage of my course,
direct my sail."
-William Shakespeare, Romeo and Juliet, Act One, Scene IV
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Now I'vee done the premature posting thingie...hehehe
I thik we'd need a proper endocrynologist to answer us, as mood swins anr caused by sooo many factors at different times in life.
I think assigning "male" and "female" labels on the various traits is probably something thst can be ditched with relief,,,that' society rather than genetics determining those definitions.
Read some John Money, foremost researcher in Sexologu and gender studies. His easy to read, "Man and Woman, Boy and gorl" was pretty good as an introduction, as I recall.
"Always forgive your enemies...nothing annoys them quite so much." Oscar Wilde
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smith,
It sounds like you are really concerned about something that is not all that important to be concerned about... and I am not in any way minimizing your concern, but rather just saying that you really have no need to be concerned.
Everyone has various mood swings and they just happen to be a little strong in you now. Don't sweat the small stuff as they say... and just ride them out if you can. Gay PMS??? No. I have been gay for about twice as many years as you have, and I can say that in that time I have had my share, of course, but as I got through my mid twenties they just sort of laid off... and I really don't have them anymore...
One thing that will affect mood that is controllable is diet... and that is another whole subject... but high sugars and carbs in your diet can mess up your moods...
smith, you are still an incredible guy. I envy your grasp of knowledge and intelligence.. I envy your ability to write... and I think you are still one of the most incredible people I have met... and yes, I am still your biggest fan... and supporter.
The only thing I think you are destined for in life is greatness... and one day soon maybe a really great "Jordan" or someone.
I hope this encourages you. It has been meant to. Enjoy your life, dude. We all sure enjoy you...
Paul.... BamBam...
Celebrate your life... embrace your love... Become intimate with your place in forever !!!
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Guest
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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As Kevin said, I don´t think there are studies linking hormonal changes or deficiencies to homosexuality. On the other hand, there are studies showing that neither plasma hormone values nor other endocrine tests reliably distinguish groups with regard to sexual orientation (that is, you can´t tell a straight from a gay guy by measuring the level of testosterone and/or estrogen in the blood). As for the "toughness" testosterone-related, studies in men failed to show any relation between the level of testosterone in the blood and agressive behavior.
Besides, all the traits that you said you were worried about having (gentleness, compassion, patience, helpfulness) sound more like qualities to me than something to be ashamed of.
And, even though scientific studies are useful and important for mankind,
science is nowhere near to discovering all the mechanisms and chemical reactions that determine human behavior. I think that to link a hormone to a particular trait is to simplify a little too much the richness of our feelings. So, I think it´s safe to say that you don´t have to worry about "gay PMS".
I hope this helps,
Hugs,
H.
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robert bryce
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Really getting into it |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 414
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Scientific American and Boston Medical Journal both have highly acclaimed articles dealing with these subjects. Several prison populations along with some college groups used as control groups were closely studied..Makes for interesting reading....Interesting that no efective conclusions were drawn due to the diversity of people involved--except that diet had a factor.other factors such as sleep levels and general health played some small part in the results..Also interesting were the post studies on returning US prisoners of war....rob-----no expert
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robert bryce
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Really getting into it |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 414
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the thought of women running the world scares the hell out of me....rob
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No Message Body
my void does not want.
-- 2.13.61.
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robert bryce
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Really getting into it |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 414
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where on Earth did you ever get the idea that men ever make mistakes???..rob
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oh my gosh! i have NO idea!!!  )
my void does not want.
-- 2.13.61.
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Judging by those traits I'm a girl too. Not that I really am, atleast the last time I checked!
But what does it mean then, if anything? If I have more estrogen traits than testosterone traits, does it mean I'm effeminate or sissy? Does it make me less of a man?
And is there something wrong in being effeminate? I mean, it seems to be more or less socially unacceptable or atleast something to get picked on about. But does it really matter? Am I a better/worse person for it?
Setras
PS. I don't mean to hurt or offend anyone. I'm merely curious, and asking. So, if anyone is offended, I apologise.
That which is dreamed can never be lost, can never be undreamed.
-Master Li in Neil Gaiman's Sandman
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13783
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We decided at once this meant homosexuality, period.
It didn't. It meant "Why do we have violent mood swings?"
Yup. Hormones. These affect the mood all the way through life. Look at PMS for the girls! And inthe teens the cocktail of hormones is incredible, and the levels go up and down liek a whore's drawers.
So, little wonder sometimes you feel vastly different form other days.
It settles down in your early twenties.
Not a lot of consolation, that, but at least it's normal
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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robert bryce
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Really getting into it |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 414
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Being wheel-chair bound,I do a great deal of reading of a scientific nature as this is where my interests lie.Many learned persons consider the human make-up or construct as being both male and female to varying degrees..The human body is a chemical factory producing at the very least a mixed bag of results.Certain TAGS or predicters do not always give the same results due to the complexity of the human body...So any undocumented source or reading material should be taken with a grain of salt..One is not alone in trying to figure-out whats going on in his or her body and the mood swings that come with the terratory...The reading of a SINGLE article that gives confusion can be off-set by doing MORE research..I respectfully suggest searching for a source that is creditable to you and has the documentation to back what they say or print..Please do not look for easy answers nor accept answers that you cannot trust..Opinions from an undocumented source can be harmful......rob
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You know, developments in science aside, I'm kinda thinking that everyone at one point in time or another goes through chemical changes, especially in late adolescence. Not sure why that is, but I guess it's just puberty cleaning shop before moving on to the next kid on the list....like some guy that comes over to fix the A/C. So it's no big deal that you are having periods when you feel pulled more one way or another, or out fo control or such. Hormones smack us all pretty hard from time to time.
Another thing is that some behavioral traits, while linked to hormonal things, are often just innate to who you are. If you are protective or only act tough as part of the cover up, maybe you aren't seeing things from an outside perspective. We are often our own worst critics. Perhaps you place more value on the traits you associate with being gay more than those that society or you yourself associate with the typical male. Perhaps you have all those traits you listed, just in a mixture and texture that is different from other people. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. After all, it's the subtleties that make us different from each other and give us all a wonderous diversity.
Yeah, I've had total gay moments, as you call them. I've also had separate experiences when I felt totally powerless against my own emotions. And yeah, I fought like hell against what my hormones made me feel as well. Still do at times. I find myself, to use your evaluations, being more proctective and nunturing, independent but compassionate, assertive and yet patient and even more conservative in how I approach things. I'm not submissive in anyway without it being a conscious choice. And to be honest, all of that is because I felt so helpless when I was younger.
I guess the way to look at it is that it's not just the biology that defines who you are. It's not just your environment and your experiences. It's a matter of choice as well. And the meat and milk of it is just that everyday there's subtle changes, maybe ones you notice, maybe ones that creep up on you until it's normal for you. So don't freak too much about the weird swings in emotion or what you may feel and associate with hormonal stuff. That's one dragon we all ride.
Just remember to not go too crazy with it all, you know. Procul harem - rough translation from Latin: all these things passing. You'll get through the rough patches, just be true to yourself.
It's not the wolf you see you should fear, but all the ones he howls with. Don't be afraid of the song, but don't piss off the choir.
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robert bryce
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Really getting into it |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 414
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AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!..This is the kind of interaction that makes this place great...What a fantastic learning experience......rob
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You have hit on a subject we can all learn something from... and that is believing the titillation we read that catches our attention only, without much substance, or that catches our attention and the substance of that writing is skewed at best.
I also hope and pray that smith will continue to read further into this subject if he is that concerned that he started a new thread about it.
I think we all agree that smith is a super sweet, intelligent, and talented young man... and I, for one, will do whatever I can, to help him out.
Rob, thank you so much for putting such a significant light on the depth (or lack of) this subject, and helping us all to look a little farther into important life issues...
smith, keep at it, Dude... you are truly one of a kind..... and extremely important to so many...
BamBam
Celebrate your life... embrace your love... Become intimate with your place in forever !!!
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I hope one day I can write what I feel as eloquently as you just did to smith.... I literally have tears in my eyes from what you wrote..
thanks for my smile for today... and the warm feeling I have inside from reading that.....
BamBam
Celebrate your life... embrace your love... Become intimate with your place in forever !!!
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Re: I Have a Question... And a Good Question it is !!!! 
Re: I think the operative word here is "stereotypical". 
