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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13783
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Please do have a look at this poll and let us know where you fit in. It is likely to cause discussions, too. Please add your thoughts below
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13783
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While the results are bu no means yet of statistical significance the early results have been entered mainly by those who are str8 acting.
Thsi interests me, and i may make it the subject of a further poll. When I was a tenager we were so closeted and afriad that only the bravest showed by their mannerisms that they were anything other than straight. We were almost all str8 acting. This was out of fear in my case. I am sure I woudl not have conformed so tightly to the "He-man norm" if we had been able to grow up in freedom from fear.
We had only just fought our way out of the weekly "Short back and sides" trip to the barbers in those days. Any flamboyance was seen as "nancy boy", and deviation from the societal norm was "punished"
How true is this today? If you are str8 acting would you prefer to more flamboyant lifestyle? or is "just being a regular guy" who you are?
"Flamboyant" may include, but is not limited to any or all of:- manner of speech
- demeanour (whatever YOU mean by demeanour is fine by me)
- makeup
- non makeup grooming products
- hairstyle
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Timmy,
I came out about 15 months ago to some friends first, then more and more people until I am out to about 80% of people I have known for a while.
Now I say this because as I continue to come out to whomever, I ask them if they ever knew or had any suspicion. Note: I am what most of my gay friends call "butch", because I deal with construction and remodeling in my job, and have remodeled 5 of my own homes, and am not effeminate acting per se.
A few friends said they 'suspected' because there were hints of certain mannerisms that I have that caused them to suspect. Some have said they had no idea at all. I saw an old friend last evening when my boyfriend and I were at a local home center store, and I knew immediately that 'Jason' knew about us. He was great, and we talked for a while after I introduced my bf to him... and it is that kind of interaction and reaction that tell me he had suspicions but they were never confirmed until last night.
I do notice that as gay men we take better care of ourselves as far as appearance is concerned (in the circles I travel in anyway), and use more products to enhance ourselves. Yes, I do poll my friends at at times about what they use and all that.
Thanks for the question, Timmy. It is always good to cause one to look inside theirself and discover more of who they are.
Celebrate your life... embrace your love... Become intimate with your place in forever !!!
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I hear gays are supposedly using more skin/haircare products. I don't, I really can't be bothered. Most of the time I forget anyway even if I have some product sample or such standing on a shelf in my bathroom cabinet. Once in a blue moon I work conditioner into my hair when I'm having a shower in case it feels really dry and staticy, but mostly it's just shampoo (though I make sure it is one with conditioning effect in it, or else my hair becomes such a mess since it's so long).
Guess I'm pretty much like guys are mostly, I shave, and that is enough for me. Don't really go for the camp way of acting either, that either gets old really fast, or it's just silly. If it's not very pronounced though, it would be cute I guess, and I might even find it hot. I usually do find guys with an effeminate face and slim body very attractive.
It's much more a question of character rather than looks though - is the other person nice and caring? That's more important to me. I could never date just a pretty face...
Funny... Was an online poll a week or two ago on the site of my evening paper which said, "what is more important?", possible answers being, "love" and "money", with separate buttons to click for both men and women. Turned out, considerably more MEN answered love being more important. I don't remember the numbers precisely, but it was upwards of a 20% difference between the sexes. So next time some woman says men don't care about feelings, you know that's not true!
What this might mean in reality, I don't really know (considering men generally earn more than women, etc), nor what this has to do with the original topic. Just thought I'd mention it, that's all...
"But he that hath the steerage of my course,
direct my sail."
-William Shakespeare, Romeo and Juliet, Act One, Scene IV
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I can clean up very nicely.... However hair surpasses me. I don't have the foggiest idea how to make my air do what I wnat. The one time i cut it real short figuring I could spike it.... I dunno I just never got the hang of that and it was far to much work. I guess I am pretty lazy even for a guy since it is a good day when I shower. And a green moon when I wash my face or use soap. (I swear soap is bad for you!) My dad says its beucase I am not used to it but I swear water makes me break out in a rash Must be jersey.... Ah wells Yes
Peace and Trees
Andy
Why are you wearing that stupid man suit?
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Yes indeed it is an interesting subject..... i'm like most straight guys.. i like to get down and dirty and sometimes do not worry as much as should about my appearance. I admit, i sometimes do act kind of gay but overall i'm straight acting.. is just the way i am. What i find interesting is it was here in the USA when i started worrying about the way i acted.. cause lets be realistic if i act a little too afeminate my friends would come down on me and start making nasty jokes on me.
You don't love someone because they are beautiful, they are beautiful because you love them.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13783
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Results so far are interesting.
Among the Camp camp there is an equal number of bottom anbd versatile, but twice as many bottom as top.
the Sr8 Acting camp seems predominantly versatile, whcih I do not necessarily believe, but trus the voters. Just under twice as many Str8 Acting tops as bottoms, though.
With 73 votes in I suspect this will hold good as more people vote. So far the results are not what I expected. I was definitely expecting a more even spread of answers.
OK, we have a practising psychologist here. Though why they need to practice I have no idea! Any comments so far on the results?
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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Well, I'm not a practicing psychologist, though I'd say that people that may be camp often don't want to admit to themselves that they are camp, plus a lot of people here are probably idealists, possibly without experience, so the reality of top and bottom doesn't hit them so much. I'm not sure, but if a large portion of members here are teenagers, then for a start that would make them quite straight acting, probably and they may not have a lot of experience with sex.
For my part, I'm far from camp, though some people may not see me as straight acting either. I mean, I'm not a slob, I'm not a typical Aussie 'bloke', I'm well spoken, somewhat refined, I like to think of myself as sensitive and I try to take pride in my appearance but I don't necessarily go for gay fashions or wear make-up, etc. I just asked a couple of random friends that have met me or know me from my offline life and they said:
-"you are fairly straight acting shot through with wonderful moments of camp"
-"camp?", "Pretty straight acting..."
-"Camp?", "Straight acting more than camp"
(yes, that's right, my two straight guy friends didn't even know what it means, I had to explain, hahaha)
On the other side of things, I like to consider myself versatile, but leaning more towards top. I have been a 'receiver' before and I would do so again, although I find my personality and preference is more 'top' than not. I like to keep myself fairly open to different possibilites in sex, though.
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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As you said, Timmy, social reality dictates how free many people feel they can be about forms of personal expression (like acting camp or how they dress, etc.) In cultures which don't condemn it, more people feel free to let loose and be themselves. Here in Thailand, many gays are very camp, even on TV shows there are camp characters regularly, and not usually as the main subject of the plot.
I think more camp people are bottoms perhaps because they don't mind letting their defences down, allowing themselves to be vulnerable and letting a partner in, literally as well as emotionally. More "tops" are straight acting because they are afraid of consequences in their environment or emotionally. Sometimes straight acting guys are more up-tight about what others will say or do, which of course is real danger in some places! But it also can mean less emotional freedom, higher barriers to closeness, perhaps less trust in the partner or willingness to "let go" so to speak.
The more versatile a person is, the less guarded they are, and the better at intimacy.
Of course, all of this is generalizations, so subject to exceptions to the rule!
Of course, some people just don't like being a bottom or a top, and sometimes that's just a preference about what feels good to them, kind of like favorite colors, about which there is really nothing psychological to be said. I even met a guy once who didn't like getting blow jobs, and that was pretty amazing to me! Ah well, to each his own.
I find that I act more gay in a gay environment and more straight acting in other settings, which is pretty common I think.
Man likes a touch of make-up once in a while, but insists it's for his skin and NOT the same way ladies wear it, LOL
"Always forgive your enemies...nothing annoys them quite so much." Oscar Wilde
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And it seems to me that there is a trend towards two things, although I may be wrong, and I hope someone can find the flaw if there is one. What I've noticed is that those who seem to be more campish tend to be less open to trying new things. They settle into one role or the other, while most of us that fall into the straight acting/normal joe types seem to be up for anything. maybe I'm being to general in that presumption. Like Timmy said, with such a small sample, it's hard to make this scientifically or statistically accurate.
Like a lot of the others here, I tend to just run a comb through my hair and head out the door. No special treatments, no elaborate procedures. Just wash twice a week (or more, I sweat at work, you know) and comb as needed. Also, for the record, I wear my hair short on top and sides, long in back. It's not quite a mullet, just squares off my face more. Also, I tend to pony it back at work, keeps me from sweating too much. A friend of mine said I look more like a fencer that way, so I guess I keep it like that for that reason. But I also gottah admit....I like fingers in my hair. Even my own, just when I'm puzzling out something or watching a movie, I'll touch my hair.
But as far as going to great lengths for grooming? Not a priority for me. Got too many other things to get to. I just take care of the basics of hygine, and I'm off.
Next!
It's not the wolf you see you should fear, but all the ones he howls with. Don't be afraid of the song, but don't piss off the choir.
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smith
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On fire! |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 1095
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I've never had a chance to be anything other than what I am, str8 me.
I've had dreams (very fun ones) where I'm dancing on tabletops in clubs in tight cropped clothes and looking quite 'camp'.
If you were to look at me quite closely, you'd find something 'fancy' everytime I get dressed. Something small but totally out of place for where I live....a bracelet, a stripe of color in my hair, a ring on the wrong finger, a belt without a rodeo buckle. When I live somewhere else, I have no idea what I will be.
David's so right....personal freedom includes or excludes personal expression. I'm not saying I'd totally 'camp out' but maybe my dreams are talking. I know the time a friend made me up for a school thing, I was dang pretty  )
smith (I guess if a giggle right now, you'll roll your eyes)
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e
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On fire! |
Location: currently So Cal
Registered: May 2002
Messages: 1179
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Carson is the first one that I'd pick as gay, but Jai, and ted are close behind. The only one I might think is straight would be Thom and he's the one I dress most like. I wear shirts like the one in the picture all the time, but my jeans tend to be JC Penney plain pockets, blue or black with the occasional pair of Dockers. My belt is plain black leather with a plain buckle. I also wear a black leather "safari" hat. No, not a pith helmet. It's like the one Harrison Ford wore in the Indiana Jones movies, though his was brown felt. Unfortunately, the hat seems to have been misplaced and I'm going to have to find a new one.
Think good thoughts,
e
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e
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On fire! |
Location: currently So Cal
Registered: May 2002
Messages: 1179
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I'm sure that whatever you finally decide, you'll end up being you, most of the time anyways. It never hurts to be someone else once in a while. You don't have to just be one thing either. Camp out once in a while, str8en sometimes too. there's a saying that the clothes make the man. but I think it's the man that makes the clothes.
{{HUGS}}
Think good thoughts,
e
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I think these are truely two seperate issues. While statistics may lean one way or another, isn't it more imortant to take each person as an individual and not prejudge based on how they act?
I for one like guys that are a bit "campy" because i find they are, by default, in touch with who they are. So maybe I could take lessons to learn to act more gay? Hehe 
Anyhooo, that's just my two cents.
Hugs all,
Kevin
:-*
"Be excellent to each other, and, party on dudes"!
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Wow, I must just be a total slob lol. I guess I am a little of them each. HOwever no one has my pants cuz my pants are just plain weird so lets see I have hair sorta like Thom I dress sorta like Jai but in way dull colors. I'm so boring I oculd never wear orange my eyes might melt. I would think Carson Kyan and Jai were deff gay and I would wonder about the other two, but I dont think I would be positive. Thom is I dunno, i just wouldnt automaticaly assume he was gay. Now I ahve to ask are the fashionable becuase wow. I am really just like have the worst taste in clothes then All I own is hoodies and baggy pants half of which used to be my older brothers. Man you woudl think I was poor....
Peace and Trees
Andy
Why are you wearing that stupid man suit?
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13783
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You know, that is why there are the same questions for each of Camp and Straight Acting. The reason for the questions is simple: A lot of people equate the role of Camp with being a bottom. The statistics do not bear this out. Instead they show that relatively few people who count themselves as camp have answered the poll.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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ay?
Is there a central hat repository somewhere in some hidden dimension where the caretakers of the machinery that keeps heat, light and gravity going takes them, so some stray piece of headwear won't accidentally end up inbetween the cogs of some important piece of equipment?
You've probably all seen it, a knitted cap hanging over some signpost pole or fence wicket or such, especially in the winter. Someone lost it, and someone else placed it there so the owner will find it. It sits there for DAYS, untouched. Then, all of a sudden, it is just gone.
A caretaker gnome must have gone by and whisked it away!
Interesting thought, don't you think? Anyway, Thom mostly resembles the way I dress too, except I seldom wear button-down shirts, and my jeans are of the plain, unpatterned variety. If I wear some kind of headwear, it is usually a baseball cap, not an Indiana Jones hat, heh heh!
There's a lot of trivia regarding that hat btw. Harrison Ford hated it, but since it was the character's trade-mark along with the whip, he couldn't be rid of it. It seemed to have a life of its own, and it always came off at some inopportune moment despite they tried every trick in the book to make it stay on, including gluing it to his head!
Owning DVDs with commentaries and documentaries on them sure is educational, don't you agree? )
Take care buddy...
Hugs:
-L
"But he that hath the steerage of my course,
direct my sail."
-William Shakespeare, Romeo and Juliet, Act One, Scene IV
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sparks
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Toe is in the water |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 57
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there are gays out there that find anal intercourse distasteful and wrong..i suggest you reconsider the wording of your pole. sparks
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13783
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I'll let it run a while longer, then consider a modification. It wioll be interesting to compare each set of data
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13783
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So, I have created a new poll at
to reflect your needs. I'd like everyone to visit the "Version 2" poll, and vote, please
To view the old poll, well the results are at http://iomfats.org/polls/
[Updated on: Tue, 09 March 2004 21:20]
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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sparks
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Toe is in the water |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 57
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thank you thank you this is a much better pole and in my humble opinion better reflects how gays like myself interact.with so many people thinking distorted thoughts about gays in general,it would be much better to cast the best light possible on us as we still have a long ways to go in public acceptance.btw i do think that this or these topics need to be aired on forums like this one.all inputs are a good thing. s
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Sparks, I (like Lenny) detect a note of judgement and negativity in your comments about anal sex. You think that it's "bad" somehow, for whatever reason (perhaps personal taste and preference, perhaps religious, or some combination).
I suggest you start to look at differences as simply different. They aren't good or bad, they aren't better or worse one from another. Something is right or wrong for you. Something else may be right or wrong for me. They really should not be compared.
Thewy are simply different, no judgement needed or looked for.
Personally, I have no problem with you choosing whatever sexual practices you wish. I will assume that they are right for you, and won't judge them. I DO have a problem when you state or imply that my choices and preferences are wrong or bad.
Gay people get judged enough as it is without doing it to each other! Do you think perhaps that you might have some internalized homophobia issues to deal with? We all do, to one degree or another.
And I have no interest at all in hearing how straight people may be perceiving us. That's their problem entirely, and I couldn't care less.
But it will be interesting to see what the new poll says about behaviours.
Hey Steve, I didn't know there were religious prohibitions on anal sex. Do observant people comply with that, do you think, or is it more like many Catholics who ignore rules like using condoms, etc.?
"Always forgive your enemies...nothing annoys them quite so much." Oscar Wilde
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sparks
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Toe is in the water |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 57
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my post stands on its own merits and does not need to be taken out of context.What was simply asked was that timmy expand his poll to include those that do not practice anal sodomy.Timmy has done so and has my deepest respect.I am pleased with the results I may add.Timmy has done all us a good service.s
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Interesting subject! 
Been Watching the results here....... 
You know... Not saying you are WRONG or anything, but... 