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icon3.gif Interesting News On Another Front  [message #20266] Wed, 24 March 2004 17:52 Go to next message
david in hong kong is currently offline  david in hong kong

On fire!
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Registered: February 2002
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Anybody with information about the situation of gays in other countrys' military service, please post it! I'm interested in comparing.



As War Continues, Gay Discharges Plummet to Lowest Level Since 1995; Report Details Experiences of Gay Soldiers in Middle East

Wed Mar 24, 8:05 AM ET

Contact: Steve Ralls of the Servicemembers Legal Defense Network, 202-328-3244, ext. 116 or sralls@sldn.org; web: http://www.sldn.org


WASHINGTON, March 24 /U.S. Newswire/ -- As the United States military continues to wage war in Iraq (news - web sites) and Afghanistan (news - web sites), discharges of lesbian and gay military personnel plummeted 17 percent in FY2003, according to a new report from Servicemembers Legal Defense Network (SLDN).


Conduct Unbecoming, an annual review of the military's "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" law, finds that gay-related discharges fell to 787 last year, down from 906 in 2002. The 2003 figures mark a 39 percent decrease in discharges since 2001, the year before current conflicts in the Middle East began. The number also represents the fewest gay discharges since 1995.


"Gay discharge numbers have dropped every time America has entered a war," the report says, "from Korea to Vietnam to the Persian Gulf to present conflicts." It goes on to note that "more of our allies have dropped their bans, and our American troops are fighting alongside openly lesbian, gay and bisexual allied personnel in the war on terrorism."


The experiences of those allied nations, the report finds, are one part of a growing movement recognizing the detrimental impact of the military's gay ban. "In the decade since 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' became law," the report says, "overwhelming evidence has shown the military's gay ban to be counterproductive to our national interests and contrary to our nation's ideals." It goes on to say that "this irrational policy of exclusion has cost our nation, and our security, almost 10,000 dedicated and trained Americans over the past ten years. That's more than two full brigades. It is also one-third of the 30,000 new recruits that the Army now says it needs to fight the war on terrorism."


The cost of training those discharged under the ban, the report finds, is between one quarter billion and 1.2 billion dollars. "The cost of shrinking the pool of talent for our nation's armed forces," the report says, "is immeasurable."


SLDN also reports on the experiences of lesbian and gay military personnel serving in times of war. Their service, the report says, "is a powerful reminder that bravery and patriotism know no sexual orientation."


Captain Austin Rooke, an Army reservist called to active duty in Qatar in support of Operation Enduring Freedom, told SLDN that it was not easy serving as a gay man in a war zone. "I had only one friend I could really be open to and confide in," Rooke said. "I did not know anyone else who was gay. And the environment was such that one did not feel comfortable coming out."


Rooke's experiences are echoed in the report by retired Master Chief Petty Office of the Coast Guard Vincent W. Patton III.


Patton, who served in the Coast Guard's highest ranking enlisted position from 1999-2002, recently returned from a visit with American troops stationed in Afghanistan and the Persian Gulf region. General John Abizaid, Commander of U.S. Central Command and the USO, invited Patton, an SLDN honorary board member, to tour Afghanistan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan and Pakistan with the USO. His mission, which was part of the USO's "Operation Handshake" program, was to gauge the morale of our troops involved in military operations in the Middle East.


Patton says that he spoke to an estimated 700-800 troops, mostly soldiers, during his tour. Attitudes regarding lesbian, gay and bisexual colleagues, he says, split largely among generational lines. Young enlisted troops were not concerned about the sexual orientation of their military colleagues.


Ten years into the military's ban, Conduct Unbecoming finds a growing consensus from both the military and civilian communities that lesbian and gay Americans should be allowed to serve openly.


The report cites a recent Gallup poll which found 79 percent support for allowing gays to serve openly, up from just 57 percent at the onset of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell." Within the military community, the public declaration of three senior retired military officers that they are gay generated widespread discussion about the ban. RADM Alan M. Steinman, USPHS/USCG (Ret.), BG Keith H. Kerr, CSMR (Ret.) and BG Virgil Richard, USA (Ret.) were joined last year by other senior retired military leaders in calling for an end to "Don't Ask, Don't Tell," including former Reagan Administration Assistant Secretary of Defense Lawrence J. Korb and former Judge Advocate General of the Navy, Rear Admiral John Hutson, USN (Ret.).


"The evidence against this law is irrefutable and its repeal is inevitable," said SLDN Executive Director C. Dixon Osburn. "Our nation has wasted too much talent and too much money on an exclusionary law that undermines our national security interests. As terrorists plot against us, we cannot afford to fire more linguists. As the commitments of our military grow, we cannot afford to turn away qualified patriots. The American people are calling on our leaders to topple this discriminatory law. Prejudice plays into the hands of our enemies."


The report also faults each of the services for taking little action to prevent or curb anti-gay harassment. "The Bush Administration and its Pentagon (news - web sites) leaders continue to ignore a growing epidemic of anti-gay harassment within the armed forces," the report finds. "Despite the adoption of a comprehensive Anti- Harassment Action Plan . . . Defense Department leaders refuse to implement the plan and continue to turn a blind eye to dangerous harassment within the ranks." The report goes on to say that "the plan continues to collect dust on Pentagon shelves."





In the end, however, the report finds that "there is . . . no fair way to implement 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' or any policy of discrimination. The truth is evident and overwhelming: there is no evidence to support the gay ban."

"Repealing this law is in the best interest of our military, our service members and all Americans," said Osburn. "The momentum to do just that is building."

Copies of Conduct Unbecoming, SLDN's annual report on "Don't Ask, Don't Tell," are available for download at http://www.sldn.org .

---

Servicemembers Legal Defense Network is a national, non-profit legal services, watchdog and policy organization dedicated to ending discrimination against and harassment of military personnel affected by 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' and related forms of intolerance. For more information, visit http://www.sldn.org



"Always forgive your enemies...nothing annoys them quite so much." Oscar Wilde
Aussie gays in military  [message #20272 is a reply to message #20266] Thu, 25 March 2004 03:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
richardb is currently offline  richardb

Getting started

Registered: March 2004
Messages: 2



It's officially ok in Aus (as of 1992). Of course, the only two army people I know personally are very homophobic... anyway, an old article, discussing a study of the Australian experience after remove the ban on gay service:

http://www.davidclemens.com/gaymilitary/aussienoprob.htm

Selected quotes:

"The Pentagon claims that lifting the American gay ban would undermine the military," Belkin said. "Data from 23 nations that allow known gays to serve, including Australia, Israel, and Britain suggest that the lifting of a gay ban does not jeopardize military performance."

o Senior officials, commanders, and military scholars within the Australian Defense Forces consistently appraise the lifting of the ban as a successful policy change that has contributed to greater equity and effective working relationships within the ranks. Gay soldiers and commanders have successfully served in recent active deployment in East Timor.

o Senior officials, commanders, and scholars report that there has been no overall pattern of disruption to the military. However, some individual units have reported disruptions that were resolved successfully through normal management procedures.

o Recruitment and retention rates have not suffered as a result of the policy change.

o Although lifting the ban did not undermine military performance, gay and lesbian soldiers have had difficulty obtaining domestic partner benefits for their spouses.

Regards,

Richard
Re: Interesting News On Another Front  [message #20276 is a reply to message #20266] Thu, 25 March 2004 06:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Steve is currently offline  Steve

Really getting into it
Location: London, England
Registered: November 2006
Messages: 465



David in Thailand wrote:

> Anybody with information about the situation of gays in other countrys' military service, please post it! I'm interested in comparing.<

There is no gay discrimination in the Israel Defence Forces. I recall that a couple of years ago a gay soldier took part in a well-known gay "beauty contest" and all his mates and superior officers came to the gay bar to cheer him on.

A very good movie about a gay romance in the Israeli army was very popular in Israel, and it will soon be released on DVD (April 13th). Pre-ordering is already possible on Amazon. The name of the movie is "Yossi and Jagger" - watch out for it, 'cos it's a good movie and incidentally portrays life in the Israeli army very accurately.
icon9.gif Re: Interesting News On Another Front  [message #20280 is a reply to message #20276] Thu, 25 March 2004 20:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kevin is currently offline  kevin

On fire!
Location: Somewhere
Registered: September 2002
Messages: 1108




How is it so possible that the country I live in (the only "super-power") is so damn backwards?

We can die for our country sure, but if we just want to work as a soldier, forget it.

It makes me ashamed to be an American.

Kevin



"Be excellent to each other, and, party on dudes"!
Re: Aussie gays in military  [message #20282 is a reply to message #20272] Fri, 26 March 2004 01:51 Go to previous message
saben is currently offline  saben

On fire!

Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537



My ex-boyfriend is in his second year at the Australian Defence Force Academy (ADFA) at the moment. Gay people are becoming more and more willing to get involved with the military in Australia, even though I'm sure there is going to be some level of unofficial discrimination. From what I understand the Australian military doesn't really recognise gay marriage or de facto status, but other than that, officially there is no problems with being gay.



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