A Place of Safety
I expect simple behaviours here. Friendship, and love.
Any advice should be from the perspective of the person asking, not the person giving!
We have had to make new membership moderated to combat the huge number of spammers who register
















You are here: Home > Forum > A Place of Safety > General Talk > Eothain, let's have anew thread
Eothain, let's have anew thread  [message #22451] Fri, 08 October 2004 10:17 Go to next message
timmy

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13739



Steve and you:

This is going to sound like harsh advice. I think sometimes one needs to hear it, even if one disregareds it.

Steve is a very sweet 12 year old (I think) lad. He probabaly appreciates the offers of friendship but is nonplussed by them. You see it is more than unusual for a 16 year old to befriend a 12 year old, and it is probabaly more unusual for a 12 year old to befriend a 16 year old.

As you know the world of a 12 year old is different from the world of a 16 year old. Many different concerns, different interests, different emotions.

You have become fixated on this lovely child because he epitomises all that you wish to have in a kid brother, and also represents more innocent times to you.

Kid brother material he may be. Innocent he is not. That goes much earlier. Naive, yes. Innocent, no.

This child is not, I think, for you, brother, friend or other role. Unless that is, he chooses to walk towards you. Your role now is to step away.

To fulfil the need for a kid bro, why not get involved with a youth organisation? Scouts, Sea Scouts (you sail after all! - what class of boat do you sail?), St John's Ambulance, Youth Club - all sorts of things are there for you to be able to mentor a kid brother or two.



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Eothain, let's have anew thread  [message #22452 is a reply to message #22451] Fri, 08 October 2004 13:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
blue is currently offline  blue

Likes it here

Registered: August 2004
Messages: 131



Eothain, please read the replies in the old thread also.

A youth organization is a good idea too. There are all sorts of ways to go have fun and meet other teens who share your interests, and in a non-threatening way where you can feel at ease.

So is volunteering with places in town that help teens and kids. Community service, helping out, can be fulfilling deep down.

And you are at an age where you need and deserve more freedom than you are giving yourself, and it would probably please your parents, even if they at first insist on knowing where you'll be.

:nudge, nudge, push: Come on, if I can do it, you can. Wink
Re: Eothain, let's have anew thread  [message #22455 is a reply to message #22451] Fri, 08 October 2004 16:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
joesdog is currently offline  joesdog

Likes it here
Location: USA
Registered: June 2004
Messages: 252




Reality is not always comfortable, but it is always good to keep in contact with. I think Timmy is right.

Does Big Brothers have an English branch? Perhaps this would be an avenue for pursuing a friendship with a younger boy...and provide a valuable service to a youngster who is in need of an older male figure in his life.

cheers!

aj



"I promise not to try not to fuck with your mind/ I promise not to mind if you go your way and i go mine/promise not to lie if i'm looking you right in your eye/promise not to try not to let you down."
--Eve6
Big Brothers Big Sisters in the UK  [message #22458 is a reply to message #22455] Fri, 08 October 2004 20:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13739



I know it did have a presence because I knew of someone who worked for the organisation. But google searches lead to a dead website
"mentors.org.uk", which seems very odd. The international website makes no reference to the UK at all though, whcih seems strange.



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Eothain, let's have anew thread  [message #22459 is a reply to message #22451] Sat, 09 October 2004 08:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eothain is currently offline  Eothain

Likes it here
Location: Rohan!
Registered: April 2004
Messages: 108



Step away? Pah, that's easy for you to say! Want me to cure world hunger and initiate world peace at the same time? How about ending world poverty? But then, I guess I'll have to conform to the views of society and never dare to do anything 'wierd'. Heck, I shouldn't even talk to any year 7s or 8s after all, we can't forget the 11th commandment:

XI: Thou shalt not talk to thy who art four years younger than thee.

And I guess that means never doing anything to do with them again. That means no more chess as there happens to be some year 7s and/or 8s in that ECA, no football because it would be too wierd to play football with year 7 and 8s (I'm refering to both the ECA and doing it outside of the ECA at lunch or whatever). And of course, no going to lunch early on a Monday and Friday as they'll be a large number of year 7s and 8s around... And probably lots of other things I can't remember. Like watching them as they walk past. As for Steve, I guess I should never talk to him ever again. Well, fine with me! After all, it is too 'unusual' and he'll never be my kid brother so screw him.

And whether he's totally innocent or not, I don't really care. He's bound to be more innocent than me. It's not hard to be...
posted again  [message #22464 is a reply to message #22451] Sat, 09 October 2004 19:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
blue is currently offline  blue

Likes it here

Registered: August 2004
Messages: 131



Eothain of Rohan wrote:
> I did used to e-mail him but I was reluctant to as I don't want to bug him or anything. Then I blocked him so he wouldn't see my MSN name (which may have sounded paticularly sucidal).

First, if I had a brother, I'd be happy if he'd talk to me, busy or not. If he's really busy and has to talk later, he can say so.

Second, if that MSN name is keeping you from talking to the people you want to talk to, *change it*. Create a new name/ID you like better, notify anyone who might need it, and change any software or web registrations, such as forums, that might use the old one. Then give yourself a transition period and after that, delete the old name/ID. *Don't* let a little thing like a screen name keep you from being you with anyone, especially your friends and loved ones. You control your online identity.

Also, there are other instant messengers and e-mail services you can sign up with, so you could sign up with one on your own, if you're worried about your privacy, especially in issues like this forum.

> Could someone please tell me what on earth is going on? ... I'm not bloody telepathic you know!

There must be somewhere or someone announcing the schedule. Find out who or where. Talk to the supervisor, coach, whoever. Talk to your mates. It isn't likely a secret. But figuring out how to find such "hidden" info is important too.

> I'm not a bloody sexual predator...

No, you're not. Just because you want to be friends, does not make you sexually interested. Even if maybe you've had some thoughts and feelings, that doesn't mean you'd *do* anything. You're a teenager, you like other teens, of whatever year. That's fine, honest. You're going to have some pretty wild thoughts every now and then. It's alright. You're so worried about wanting a close friendship, and maybe you're worried what it means to be attracted to other boys. There is nothing wrong with you. There is no "fate" saying you are doomed to repeat what happened to you, whether with a younger boy, someone in your year, or an older guy. The very fact you're worried about it says you are a better person and strong enough to do what you feel is right, instead of something that was so hurtful to you, physically and mentally, and has stayed with you for years. You will not be friendless or loveless in life.

I know what it's like to judge yourself, to tell yourself it's wrong to have feelings for other boys, to wonder what it means about you. I also now know that I didn't need to be afraid. I should've trusted myself more. I should've reached out more. It took me a long time to learn this, and it was (and still is) a very lonely road. -- But now it's getting better. I am finding out that some of my friends are better friends than I could've hoped for, and it has already made a big difference for me. I haven't yet gotten up the courage to look for someone, but I know now that it's alright, I can and will, and it'll be alright, even if it takes a while, even if I get rejected sometimes.

You have the advantage that you have more time to heal and start to enjoy life more. I am not pressuring you into anything. Take your time and do what seems best. -- I don't know what it would've taken to make me feel safe enough to open up when I was 16. I avoided it every time. I even managed to half-convince myself. Sort of. But the truth was still there. Without a friend's tough love, I might still be hiding in that closet. I'm barely peeking out, but it's a start.

> I'm about as intimidating as a kitten!

Takes one to know one. Over-analyzing. Self-deprecating. Shy. In emotional turmoil, wanting closeness, but afraid to let anyone in for fear they'll learn your deepest, darkest secret, and run screaming for the hills. Occasionally wondering if it would be easier just to die, or at least give up.

(I'm describing myself there, just as much as you. I didn't actually attempt suicide, but I did think of it. Instead, in many ways, I gave up, even though I was more or less functional.)

So mixed up about it all that it affects university, jobs, relationships, things I wanted to do in life. Had to force myself to learn how to be more outgoing and smiley, and began using it as a front to hide behind.

(Don't let that happen to you.)

> And I'm not smart.

This from someone who made what I understand are high marks on his GCSE's. You like history and perhaps archery and much more, and you're good at it. Please don't sell yourself short. You have enough going for you that people a quarter of a planet away like you and are concerned for you. That isn't just some exaggerated hyperbole.

> Perhaps I should have taken that oppurtunity, or perhaps it was right of me not to...

Did I say over-analyzing? How about playing "what-if" and second-guessing yourself in circles? It can get to be an infinite loop, with you wondering what the hell is the solution that will finally kick you out of those loops and back to normal.

> But whatever, it's not gonna happen so there's no point in hoping.
> I do feel like I know how that feels, desire with no hope... Oh well...

If I could reach through this modem and hug you and offer my shoulder to lean on, I would gladly. I, for one, am not giving up on you.

Don't despair. You are not sinful, dirty, worthless, stupid, or crazy. Quite the opposite. Despite all evidence to the contrary, there is good and beauty and love in this world, and there is certainly no shortage of people.

You are not alone. Things will get better. These words may not seem to help much, without someone in person to be there with you. But there are others like you all over the place, who feel the same way. Some are your age, some are my age, some are only eleven, like we once were. ...And some are in your town or at your school. There are hotlines and support groups for teens much like you, where you can let go of those things that burden you so, and where they'll understand because they've been there too.

Here is a friendly :hug: for you. Cheer up, gentle friend. There are good things somewhere up ahead for you.

~Blue
Re: Eothain, let's have anew thread  [message #22465 is a reply to message #22459] Sat, 09 October 2004 20:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13739



OK, that was the reaction I expected. But now please think.

"Eothain is a fag and he's stalking me!" A complaint from Steve to his comrades. Yells of "poof!" from his year every time you are nearby. Very soon a complaint from Steve and his comrades to somoen in authority. Very soon a nasty interview withg those in authoroity asking you if you are homosexual and if you are stalking Steve.

And whatever the outcome of the nasty interview a very bad taste in your mouth and a very bad taste in everyone else's.

This is not a trivial issue, and, while I accept that you have a right to your response it is not one you have thought through. Nor have you looked at the very practical suggestions.

So, what is it about Steve that means that he alone can fulfil your dreams of a kid brother?



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: posted again  [message #22466 is a reply to message #22464] Sat, 09 October 2004 20:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13739



I am in total agreement with all Blue has said. I do realise that my comments to you are very direct and you probabaly don't like me much for them. But please listen to them.

I don't have to be right, you know. But I've been roud the block a few times and I know how the world reacts.



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Eothain, let's have anew thread  [message #22467 is a reply to message #22459] Sat, 09 October 2004 23:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
blue is currently offline  blue

Likes it here

Registered: August 2004
Messages: 131



No, only that Steve is likely to become irritated, which you're already worried about. If Steve wants to be your friend, let him decide. No one's saying you have to stop doing anything fun at school or out of school. Don't set yourself up for disappointment, that's all.

Alright, let me tell you about the first time I had a crush. Except I didn't know it was a crush, exactly. A large, suburban, public senior high school, meaning boys and girls, and not a private school. When I was about 15, a sophomore (10th grade) maybe the first week in the school year, I hadn't found a regular lunch table to sit at. There was a table with two guys who looked friendly, maybe they even offered to let me sit there, I don't remember. We hit it off pretty quickly. I liked one of them, B., especially. Everything about him seemed cool and nice and friendly. He looked like he was a freshman (9th grade, 14 or 15) short, thin but fit. But he was actually a year ahead, a junior. His friend was tall and lanky and in my class year. They both had karate. I was somewhere in the middle, and anything but a jock. I fit in.

Gradually, I liked B. and started noticing little details and started looking at him more. It wasn't sexual, but what was it? I liked being around him, liked his looks, how he sounded, I had a funny feeling around him, and couldn't quite place it. One day they noticed me looking at him, probably lost with some dreamy expression on my face, I don't know. The teased me about it, I was looking at him like I liked him or something. I laughed it off somehow, and it was a gentle tease, friendly. But it embarrassed me. Because it made me realize I had been looking at him like that. And they'd noticed. But we'd all laughed and it was fine, except for me, inside. Just what was this? Wait, did he like me like that? Would he want to do something? I didn't quite know what, and didn't think about it too closely. How could I find out? I had no idea. I began looking more cautiously, trying to figure out just what this was. He probably wouldn't like that. What guy would? Why was I even thinking about it? What was wrong with me? I can't remember what I said when I talked to both of them privately, but I was trying to figure out if they'd meant anything when they'd teased me, if they were OK with me, if B. liked me. I still didn't realize it was a crush. I did know this was risky, and I was being as cautious as I could, but I couldn't not know, either.

Around the same time, one day we saw a boy walking down the aisle in the cafeteria. Purple polo shirt, the collar turned up. We three resumed talking, and I was facing away from that boy. Wham! What on earth? I turned around to look. At the end of the aisle, a dirty tray had been thrown at the boy. What the hell? B. and G. explained, didn't I know who that boy was? He was, they said, the only "out" gay boy at school, and his name. Some of the jocks over there, who were busy laughing and talking, along with half the cafeteria, had taken exception to him. We all agreed it was an ugly, stupid thing to do. We also all agreed we couldn't understand how a guy could be gay, or words to that effect. I didn't talk much the rest of that lunch, none of us did. I was shocked. Gay? There was a gay boy at school? He was out? Really? That was him? And here I was, liking my friend here at lunch. I might be gay too. But I just couldn't be, could I? I liked girls too, didn't I? So what about B.? What about another friend I liked? What about the times I'd actually tried to do things? Miserable.

A few days later, I got up the courage to walk behind that boy, and say out loud that not everybody thought that way about him, and there were other guys like him at school. He didn't turn around. He walked on like he hadn't heard. I was soft-spoken enough maybe he hadn't heard. But I think he had, from the set of his shoulders. I believe he transferred schools sometime later, I don't know for sure.

Some days later, with my attraction for B. slightly subdued, one of us brought up something about gays. I don't remember the details, who said what, but it made me feel pretty sure B. didn't have feelings like that. I claimed I didn't. I was evading as fast as I could, or outright lying.

We all stayed friends and ate together. Some weeks later, we found he would be moving away, the life of a military brat. His friend G. and I tried to keep up our friendship. We both missed B. We drifted apart.

I looked in my yearbook recently. There I am, though why the photographer used that awful pose, a semi-profile, eludes me. Not a flattering photo. There is G. And there is B., looking younger and out of place among his classmates, and as wonderful as I remember him. But they are all photos of teens, long past. There are even a couple of photos from the martial arts club, with them in their gi outfits, and practicing moves. Another, of him in art club. He'd mentioned art class, and knew I liked art.

I come to an odd realization: All but two of the guys I liked signed that yearbook, except the two who moved away. Did any of them have similar feelings for me? Two of them, B. and R., I almost asked, almost came out to. Three others, I defended verbally against idiots who dissed them. Also in that yearbook are the boy, whom I now recognize, that I was with at 11, I now know I knew him the whole way through high school, and somehow blocked out that it was him. That worries me. Funny enough, he was a nice guy to me; I would've thought he'd have hated me. Lastly, there is the photo of a boy who decided to accuse me of being gay, in the middle of class, in front of everyone, including the teacher. That boy had no way to know for sure, as far as I know. The teacher nearly sent us both to the principal, but didn't.

Well, now you know a bit of personal history, perhaps more than I meant to say all at once. Why do I mention it, Eothain? I was hugely disappointed to learn B. didn't have, or said he didn't have, the same feelings for me. It wasn't until years later that I realized I had had a crush on him. I very nearly avoided making a complete fool of myself. I could've been rejected even worse, had I let him know the true extent of my feelings. I didn't quite know what I felt for him, or what, if anything, I wanted to do. I would've gladly done something, though. And B. wasn't my best friend from that same year, with whom I missed a chance.

All these years later, and every now and then, I think back and wonder if they had any feelings for me at all, beyond simple friendship, and whether they would've done anything, if I'd had the courage to ask. But it is merely water under the bridge. Bittersweet memories, what might have been or might not, but ultimately, what wasn't.

I am not trying to discourage you or depress you, Eothain. I am just trying to say three things: First, I understand how you feel, deep down, because I've been there too. Yes, it hurts and it's confusing beyond belief. Second, you will get through this somehow. You have a core of strength and goodness inside, stronger than all your doubts and insecurities about your present and your past. Third, you must not judge yourself so harshly. You blame yourself for things that were not your fault and things you haven't even done. You look in the mirror and don't know what to make of the face you see, and don't quite like the reflection. I'd see a young man who only needs to look from another angle, in a different light, and see forgiveness for himself, a way out of that inner prison, and a way to step towards many others. I know it is hard to trust and love others when it is so hard to trust and love yourself. You can do it. You can reach out for friendship and support. It may not be there with each person, but it IS there with several.

~Blue
friends and crushes  [message #22470 is a reply to message #22466] Sun, 10 October 2004 18:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rodneygabe is currently offline  rodneygabe

Likes it here
Location: USA
Registered: July 2004
Messages: 101




Hi eothain-- this is actually aj, not rodneygabe...i'm at his house this weekend, in arkansas...while he is in NYC. It's a long story... Very Happy

I just wanted to write a quick note: I think Timmy is at least partly right. Given the intolerant environment that you find yourself in, discretion is the better part of valour. Later, maybe in university, you can be bolder and tell someone like Steven how you feel and be able to expect that the repercussions won't be too severe if he does not reciprocate you feelings, but for the 'nonce...keep it dark. You have too much to lose right now.

In general, my belief is that the best way to resolve unrequited love is to confront it: talk to the person in question and ask them how they feel. The hardest part about a crush is not knowing how the other person feels. That isn't always necessary, though: I think that Steven has made it pretty clear through his nonverbal language and lack of enthusiastic response to your last conversation with him that he isn't terribly interested. I know it's hard to hear that...that it's painful to hear that, but i think it's true nonetheless.

I and a lot of others hear care about you, eothain, and we don't say these things to hurt or worsen your situation. I also know that this is not a situation where logic is all that helpful, because this is about emotions. But your intellect can rule your emotions, given time. Let that happen in this case, please-- I don't want to see your situation made any worse.

cheers,

aj



"more tongue and groove than a hardwood floor"
The important person in this scenario is Steve  [message #22474 is a reply to message #22470] Sun, 10 October 2004 19:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13739



I know it feels like you, Eothain, but Steve is the key player, and Steve's feelinsg have to come first if he is ever to do more than acknowledge that you exist.

This is why he must make the next move.

He must walk towards you, not you towards him.

If he does not then it was a brave try on your part, and you are to be commended for that, but it leads nowhere.

If he does then do not overwhelm him with friendship. Simply be available to him, and be a gentle mentor

For those who have come to this thread late I want to acknowledge again that your hopes for him are not sexual ones, but are as friend and pseudo-brother.



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
My Waterloo  [message #22477 is a reply to message #22474] Sun, 10 October 2004 23:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eothain is currently offline  Eothain

Likes it here
Location: Rohan!
Registered: April 2004
Messages: 108



Meh, sorry for my rash reply earlier. You're right, I didn't really think about it logically. But with all due respect, when everyone is saying to walk away combined with realization that that's what I have to do and an almost certainty that I've pretty much lost him... it's a tad hard to take, and I'm sorry for not being objective.

Though I don't think I really stalk him as such. I've only talked to him once this term so far, and it's half term in two weeks. And it's purely coincidental that he happens to show up everywhere I go...

But yeah, I'll make no advances towards him or anything... I'll just try to avoid him, I guess. Not draw attention to myself or anything. But, essentially, it's all over. Game over. Unfortunately this one doesn't have a reset button. There's a million to one chance that he'll make any moves so now, all my hopes and dreams of ever having a friend and/or little brother have, once again, been dashed to a thousand pieces like the sinking of the Thunderchild in the War of the Worlds. But what can one do, except let it go, no matter how painfull it may be... *sigh* And farewell self-esteem, not that I had much anyway. What's the friggin' point? In living in despair and sorror, alone... With no glimmer of hope or light... Yes, I'll let him go, so you needn't worry about that. In my immagination, it could have been so good, just like James and Martin in the Holiday. I could have been the older brother he doesn't have, and him my younger one I never had. But it's over now. Farewell Steve. You may never know how much I love you, but I would have done anything for you. Yet regardless, it is irrelevant. Though. Though I do not hold any resentment towards you at all... May you have a better life than I've had... Farewell once more...
Re: My Waterloo  [message #22479 is a reply to message #22477] Mon, 11 October 2004 03:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
blue is currently offline  blue

Likes it here

Registered: August 2004
Messages: 131



You don't need to apologize for getting ticked off.

Yes, it's hard to take and it doesn't seem fair, when someone doesn't like you the same way you like them.

Right now, you feel as bleak as your post says. But life is not so absolute and final as you've painted it, not as black and white.

But I would much rather hear you say how you really feel than not say so truthfully, or worse, not say anything, or worst of all...no, I don't want you to hurt yourself in any way. No, live to fight another day, if only to piss the Mad off.

You want friends, brothers, people who like and love you? -- Alright, maybe we badger you and fuss at you, but we, here on this forum, like you and we are your friends. I feel sure there are mates of yours at school, though they may seem more like acquaintances, as many of my school friends seemed to me. Yet we still remember each other years later. How do I account for that, if we were only acquaintances?

Eothain, you have a *real* older brother whom you like. Take some time to talk to that brother you get along well with. You don't have to say everything immediately. You can build that gradually. You could ask to be with him some, if you'd like. (I'm sorry, I don't recall if he's married, but you could still have time to talk privately with him.)

As for me, this week, I'll have the fifth non-pro counseling session, and will soon see (probably also this week) about some pro counseling and other resources. What I've said to my counselor is said in confidentiality. Before discussing my case with people who might help, he's asked my permission to discuss anything at all, and said what he'd talk about. That includes possible counselors, other resources, whoever. So what am I in counseling for? Basically, what I've talked about in posts here. Eventually, I wised up and realized I needed help with my problems, and couldn't solve them alone.

Try not to wait as long as I did, eh?
A note about letting go  [message #22481 is a reply to message #22477] Mon, 11 October 2004 05:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Pyro is currently offline  Pyro

Toe is in the water
Location: Calgary Alberta Canada
Registered: September 2004
Messages: 87




First off, sorry i haven't been online for a while, my computer is once more attempting suicide and i've been trying to fix it.

Now about letting go, It's not like your slamming the door on Steve, think of it more as turning your attention away. He's still there, nothing changes. all your doing is alowing him to make whatever move he sees fit and in the mean time turn your attention elsewhere. Where? nowhere in particular, could be school, a friend, just find something to occupy yourself and just let things happen for a while. I think you'll find that as soon as you relax and allow thoughts about Steve (and any thoughts about lonelyness and such, (i know it's hard believe me)) to slip out of your mind as much as you can, you'll find that as soon as you do, life will seem a lot more relaxed, you'll be able to think clearer. and it probably won't be long before you find someone else that occupys your attention as much as steve; someone who perhaps will reciprocate your feelings.

The other thing too, about your self esteem; a simple exercise, it works for me so maybe it might help others but i dunno, i'm weird so meh. Pay attention to the simple nice things in your life, you play computer games for instance, i know that there are times when you do something cool in those games, something that most people can't do. Or, those high marks you scored at school, or hell, i do this when i make lunch and manage to not burn anything. When one of these simple nice things happens, when you do something cool then i want you to repeat after me, you can say it outloud if you want..."Damn i'm good." I'm serious, don't laugh, trust me on this one. I say it to myself all the time, today when i parellel parked the car. Yesterday when i finaly brought order to my desktop (the physical one not the computer), when i made 1000 km on my bycicle odometer. This is a very simple exersise it takes no time to speak of and its super easy. You'll be really suprised by how much it does too. There's some interesting things you may learn about this exercisise if you take pyscology in University, or perhaps you already know but a lot of the things that people precieve about the world, (others, themselves, even pysical objects) is colored greatly by their beliefes. you re-enforce negative beliefs about yourself everytime something (big or small) happens to you that makes you look bad in some way. So if you just acknowledge and re-enforce even pasivley the idea that your are a cool person (and you are) then you'll have better self essteem and when you have good selfesteem other people notice and suprisingly it's been proven that people are attracted to confident individuals with good self esteem. You'll think your great, others will think your great, isn't that great? ;-D
But one thing, if your parents are like mine you might not want to verbalize your "damn i'm good" in front of them to avoid the following situation that happened to me;
"Damn i'm good."
"Don't swear."
"But mom, i just made a totaly awesome sandwedege." Wink

Godspeed,



Pyro.



Do what you love, changing the world is incidental.
Re: A note about letting go  [message #22483 is a reply to message #22481] Mon, 11 October 2004 12:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
trick is currently offline  trick

Getting started
Location: uk
Registered: September 2004
Messages: 24



pyro gives good advice especially with the damn
i'm good bit need to say that a lot more myself.firstly i don't want to sound like i'm rubbing your nose in it because after years of wishing i could have the same thing your looking for i finally found it, my best mate chris.theres never been any sexual attraction but i love him to bits we met when his brother went to work abroad & asked me to keep an eye on his little bro so i did now i've got two families (not that mines too great) but to get to this stage took a long time & a lot of disppointments all i'm trying to say is try & take your time & never give up hope you never know whats round the corner & try not to be so hard on yourself cos i'm good enough at that for all of us.
hope this makes sense if not then sorry for boring you i'm not good at this writing thing. dickle
Re: My Waterloo  [message #22484 is a reply to message #22477] Mon, 11 October 2004 12:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13739



You know it isn't Waterloo. I can't hear Abba at all.

But seriously, you don't need to avoid him. Just don't seek him out. he knows you are there if he needs a big mate. And he may well come to you with a problem to sort out with him. Or he may not.

I can quite imagine how lovable he is. The thing is, for it to work, he has to walk towards you. Otherwise simply try very hard to be pleased when he is successful, and keep those feelings gently inside.

Now, the bit about self esteem and loneliness. This is in your hands. The loneliness can be conquered. I know term time is full, full, full. But the holidays and half terms are not. At school you are alone in a crowd. Join the crowd, yes even the dorks themselves. At home join an organisation. Leanr to teach archery and become an instructor. You're good at stuff, so let it show



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: My Waterloo  [message #22489 is a reply to message #22484] Mon, 11 October 2004 22:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eothain is currently offline  Eothain

Likes it here
Location: Rohan!
Registered: April 2004
Messages: 108



Ironnically, I actually hate Abba. The only song of theirs I like is One of Us. Waterloo being my second favorite, but it's not that good. Only due to the mention of the battle and Napoleon that I like it. Just thought it felt fitting.

And I'm not gonna avoid him, but just, well, ignore him. If he wants to, he can talk to me, but it's not gonna happen. It's just not going to. Today, after walking back from a fire alarm (set off by another pupil in protest of two pupils being expelled by drugs), he happened to be going the opposite direction to me and we passed. I attempted to just ignore him, not like looking at him or staring at him or saying anything to him, though I did loudly whisper "Jesus Christ!" once I was past him and nearly burst into tears (so what if I have slightly more estragen than normal levels...). And I rarely say Jesus Christ... Bloody hell is my normal phrase...

Eothain, you have a *real* older brother whom you like. Take some time to talk to that brother you get along well with. You don't have to say everything immediately. You can build that gradually. You could ask to be with him some, if you'd like. (I'm sorry, I don't recall if he's married, but you could still have time to talk privately with him.)



He's in Australia so I can't talk with him. On MSN, it would be pointless. It would just cause discord and such...

Now about letting go, It's not like your slamming the door on Steve, think of it more as turning your attention away. He's still there, nothing changes. all your doing is alowing him to make whatever move he sees fit and in the mean time turn your attention elsewhere.

I've put the ball in his court and will do nothing more to chase the ball, but he's not going to return it, so essentially it is the same as slamming the door on him. Well, not slamming, just closing but it makes no difference... He's gone and there's nothing I can do about it... That said, the door will always be unlocked though, if he ever wants to open it, but he won't so it doesn't matter... As for what to turn my attention to, there's nothing except for perhaps failing chemistry... Lord, I'm so bloody screwed...

And about the self-esteem thing, I occassionally do stuff like that but to be honest, I'm not really in the mood to do it right about no. Plus, it doesn't really make much difference, I think...

never give up hope you never know whats round the corner



Hope gave up on me a long time ago, and I can guess what's roung the corner, darkness and despair. Sorry, I'm just a bit of a pessamist...

And I'm too young to teach archery (and too bad at it), plus over half term I'm going to Morocco on a school trip...
Re: My Waterloo  [message #22490 is a reply to message #22489] Mon, 11 October 2004 23:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
trick is currently offline  trick

Getting started
Location: uk
Registered: September 2004
Messages: 24



yeah i know its easy to say never give up hope especially when i don't know you but i wanna try & help.got to go drunk & tired look after yourself,later dickle
Re: My Waterloo  [message #22500 is a reply to message #22489] Tue, 12 October 2004 08:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
joesdog is currently offline  joesdog

Likes it here
Location: USA
Registered: June 2004
Messages: 252




jesus--you european guys get to go to all the fun places. I'd give my left....er, little finger to go on a trip to Morroco.

Everyone who has a life worth living has times of darkness and despair. It's a natural consequence of living, because a life worth living has risk in it, and risks don't always work out the way we'd like them too. You took a risk in working up to talking to Steve, and it didn't work out the way you would have liked it to...so you're going to leave the door open if he wants to come to you with some issue and leave it at that. That's how adults manage their affairs, and it's good to see you knowing that this is the right tact to take. It's not the end of the world, eothain--it's a momentary setback. I know it feels like more than that right now, but that's what it is. We can't know why Steve didn't respond more favorably, but right now he's not in that space, so leave it for now.

I'm going to tell you a secret--it's really simple, but it took me a long time to figure out--one's self-esteem cannot be dependent on other people's opinions of you. It has to come from within you, otherwise you're at the mercy of the whims of other people, and that is Soooo not a good thing. Pyro's self-talk is an important clue: congratulate yourself on things you do well, and for the things you don't do well, challenge yourself to do better rather than dwell on how poorly you do them. Chemistry is a good example: rather than think about how you did on the last test, set a goal for yourself about how you'd like the next test to go and set up a program of study that will be needed to accomplish that goal. The simple act of doing something about it will help your self-esteem greatly. If you don't reach your goal, re-adjust your program until you do.

Poor self-esteem is a classic symptom of people who have suffered serious trauma as you have, so don't think that you have low self-esteem just because you're a f*cked up human being. That is not the case--the fact that you are as high functioning as you are is a testament to your resilience, in fact.

I wanted to ask you something: how would you feel about talking on IM with a counselor? would it be easier for you if it wasn't face-to-face? I don't know that something like that could be accomplished, but i'm willing to explore the possibility if you are. Perhaps Timmy could help with that as well...maybe a few sessions on IM until you feel comfortable with the person's style? I know that most counselor's will want to be face-to-face eventually, because so much of the responce they monitor is nonverbal, but I think it might be something worth exploring.

cheers!

aj



"I promise not to try not to fuck with your mind/ I promise not to mind if you go your way and i go mine/promise not to lie if i'm looking you right in your eye/promise not to try not to let you down."
--Eve6
Re: My Waterloo  [message #22508 is a reply to message #22489] Tue, 12 October 2004 22:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
blue is currently offline  blue

Likes it here

Registered: August 2004
Messages: 131



On all that negative stuff, including self-esteem and pessimism --

Sure, you wonder why things don't work out, if it's something wrong with you or even that life has it in for you. Or you think you're messed up or dumb or nobody wants to be your friend. -- Things often don't work out, but that doesn't mean they are your fault or you've done wrong or done something to screw up. It doesn't mean you're unlikeable or too shy or weird. It doesn't mean you're dumb. -- But you aren't helping yourself by saying you're some negative thing or by expecting things to go sour or by thinking of yourself as not able to have a friend. -- Yes, it's hard to concentrate on studies when you're all muddled over your feelings. That, and your desire to fit in and your self-image -- those can be self-fulfilling prophecies: you can wind up messing up totally without intending to. Does this mean you're screwed? No.

You just have to work at ways to adjust so you can let your true strengths work for you. Instead of focussing on the things that aren't going as you want, focus on the things that are going well. "Wow, I'm good. I aced that quiz. It's a pretty day. Someone smiled at me, said I was nice, etc. Ben thanked me for something." Don't worry if something delays your long-term goals. Plan smaller goals that are easier to reach and enjoy when they work out. If something throws them off kilter, just reschedule and do something that will bring about the results you want.

Very importantly, don't try to do it all yourself. Ask someone you know for help, little stuff or big stuff. That means help on anything.

You've mentioned greeting people and talking to guys you know, so you know how to do that. Yes, it's awkward, and more so about making conversation, because that means opening up a little. OK, so it feels a little funny to smile and talk about nothing and be a little goofy with the guys. But that's how they act too. Say you'd like to go do some activity, and see who else thinks that would be fun, and maybe see about going as a group, getting a ride.... See, I'm just throwing out suggestions for stuff to get noticed and included.

I suspect that you know and do a lot of these things anyway. I also guess that you make casual acquaintances, school friends, OK enough, but that you have trouble moving beyond that, getting closer, like out of school one-on-one or in group settings. Like me, I often felt like the odd man out, sort of drifting on the periphery, even in the middle of a group of people I sort of knew, unless I was really having fun or really comfortable. It's a skill you get better at as you go. Apparently, it was often just me being self-critical, because people sometimes say later that they liked such-and-such about me, and yet I didn't quite think it was anything special or that I'd done well. (Often the opposite, I felt like a ditz, and all out of sorts.) So the trick is to go ahead and do things, to give yourself the chance to develop the friendships you're looking for.

*Sigh* not that I'm an expert on anything, I'm just trying to help out a friend.
Re: My Waterloo  [message #22528 is a reply to message #22508] Thu, 14 October 2004 22:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eothain is currently offline  Eothain

Likes it here
Location: Rohan!
Registered: April 2004
Messages: 108



Well, things have been quite good recently on the friendship front. On a whole unexpected side, as well. Basically, it all starts on Tuesday. I'm sitting alone at lunch (as I often do when I don't have a lesson before lunch as I go in early while the rest of my year are busy working) and even though I hadn't realized, but I was sitting on a table just beside the year 8s and Steve, but I didn't realize that untill some time afterwards. I just saw four free tables, and sat down at that paticular one for some reason, not looking to see who was sitting at any tables adjacent to the four. Anyhow, a group of year 7s, who I rememebered playing football with that one time I went to the ECA, came up to me, sat and and started having lunch with me, while talking. Sure, I was nervous at first but gradually lossened up. Before going, they asked me if I wanted to play football with them on Wednesday. I said sure, and then they said goodbye and left.

So, Wednesday I had lunch. Now, officially I have a chess ECA, but basically all it consists of is my friend attempting to get me to play checkers. Though I'm officially meant to attend, I walked towards the football pitch where three of them were having a knock about, they invited me to join them and join them I did. Anyhow, we had fun, playing football and such, and talking a bit too. But soon lunch was over, but before departing they asked me if I wanted to play football with them again tommorow (being today), I was flattered and ofcourse agreed to it.

Thursday, despite the horribleness of chemistry (it's confusing!), I managed to survive to lunch. I went over to the football pitch where I was promptly invited to play. I took it up and then went over to join them when I was promptly surrounded by a group of them trying to convince me to join their team, while an older girl tried to convince me to join the other team, i.e the year 8 and above team. I decided to join the year 7 team and we played for a bit. Then they decided to go off onto the other pitch where there were less people and it would (to quote one of them) "involve less running". Anyhow, we went to the other pitch and played. It was fun, as per usual. One of them said "You don't have to play, but we'd like you to." Which is rather nice, I think. So, we played. The Aussie gap joined us for a bit too, and belted a few shots in (I was in goal). I dived in the right direction, but somehow, I could only get my finger tips to the ball! Anyhow, soon lunch was over once more, and we walked back to the school building and we talked a bit more, but more kind of, well, openly I guess. I discovered one of them used to go to my old school! Anyhow, it was good. Though we split up again, with them again saying goodbye (which ofcourse, as always, I say back to them!).

However, it does not end there, though perhaps it should. There was geography, which was fun and I got to show the class some photos from Sanorini and samples of volcanic rock which was good. My geography teacher seemed very interested by the rock samples and photos of the volcano. Anyhow, that's not the main thing. In due time, school ended. I grabbed my bags and walked to the car park where my mum was waiting. I was loading the boot when I noticed something in the corner of my eye. I turned to the car next to mine and saw one of the boys I played football with. He waved at me through the window and I waved back. And then he, well... drove off. But, it was nice to feel liked.

Anyhow, I'm the type of person who mentions something like this to everyone really on MSN or forums, however, I don't think most get an idea of how meaningfull and important it really is to me. It feels nice, they're nice kids and they seem to be fond of me. I'm liked! I'm respected! I'm... delusional! Or maybe not. Maybe, there's that chance somewhere, written in the heavens, that perhaps, just perhaps, that they genuinely like me! Maybe they do! It's certainly possible! I'm a nice person, sure I'm shy, but once you get to know me. I don't try to think or act superior to them because of my age or anything, nor like ignore them. Just, well, treat them as equals (minus the sex jokes, ofcourse) amd not kind of younger, inferior or in any kind of patronising manner. And, well, not to be boastfull, I'm kind of well... you know, not the type of person to be afraid or intimidated by, which they find out once they get to know me.

However, I have a chemistry test tommorow. I'M DOOMED!
Re: My Waterloo  [message #22529 is a reply to message #22528] Thu, 14 October 2004 23:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eothain is currently offline  Eothain

Likes it here
Location: Rohan!
Registered: April 2004
Messages: 108



Oh, and I managed to conquer the mighty city of Rome in Rome: Total War! Whooo! All hail Emperor... I've forgotten the name, but hail him anyway! The final battle (I lost the previous one) took place outside the city of Rome! It was a brutal battle, but I won a 'heroic victory'. Both the enemy generals were, quite funnily, cut to piece by my archers. It's funny seeing the screen point to them (as it does when a general die) and seeing a constant stream of dozen hundred arrows flying and striking the ground all around him as he dies!

And not to be vain or anything, but I think I look pretty damn fine when wearing a shirt with the top button done up and smiling! Hey, you told me to have more confidence and self-esteem! I love shirts! Strangely, the shirt I'm wearing is pretty similar, if not identicle, to the one Steven (the archer in the tourney I was shooting with) was wearing on that day.
Re: My Waterloo  [message #22530 is a reply to message #22489] Thu, 14 October 2004 23:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
blue is currently offline  blue

Likes it here

Registered: August 2004
Messages: 131



Hey, Eothain, that's awesome news! Some fun, some new friends, soccer or rugby, success against the Romans, lots of good things. Good job! -- And hey, it's good to feel good and look good while feeling good.

I hope this will be the start of some new and good things for you. Sure, when life's been getting you down, good news like this is truly wonderful. Heck, even the littlest things are worthwhile. But fun and companionship are not little things at all. They're some of the most important things in life; that's why we miss them so much when they don't seem to be there or going well.

Cheers, mate. (Raises Diet Coke in salute.) Glad your week's been nice. I'll keep sending good thoughts and prayers your way. Very happy for you, and hope things get even better.

~Blue ::happy dance::
Re: My Waterloo  [message #22532 is a reply to message #22528] Fri, 15 October 2004 05:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Pyro is currently offline  Pyro

Toe is in the water
Location: Calgary Alberta Canada
Registered: September 2004
Messages: 87




I'm really happy for you, but not supprised, i mean, you ARE a likeble respectable person, it's what i've been trying to say all along.




pyro.



Do what you love, changing the world is incidental.
Re: My Waterloo  [message #22567 is a reply to message #22530] Wed, 20 October 2004 21:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eothain is currently offline  Eothain

Likes it here
Location: Rohan!
Registered: April 2004
Messages: 108



Well, here's an update for you. My last post was on Thursday, so I'll tell you what happened since then. On Friday, I didn't play football with the year 7s, as they had hockey, but they did come and set next to me at lunch which was nice. And we talked and such.

Weekend was the usual and pretty much uneventfull.

On Monday, I played football with the year 7s again. And I did on Tuesday as well. They also came and sat next to me at lunch. Initially they couldn't play due to having an ECA, but then they decided to skive the ECA so we played all lunch which was fun. On the way back, we talked a bit about stuff including games (yay, common interest!) and I said to them a similar thing that I said to Steve: "You know, if you ever want to talk about anything or as any questions about anything, I mean anything nothing's out of bounds*, then you can always talk to me." I got a slightly better response than I did from Steve (which was, as you may recall a simple "Yeah.") they said "Thanks!" which I assume is "thanks for offering us/me your support!"

Anyhow, today the things were as usual. Played them at lunch, no suprise there! Though officially I was skiving the chess ECA, and I actually got a red-slip for it. Three red slips within a certain time (not sure how long) means a detention. But I'm going through a rebellious phrase and to be honest, I don't care. Those year 7s mean far more to me than any detention. It would be worth it, undoubtably.

Anyhow, here comes the bomb shell. Morocco. Last year (school year), I stupidly agreed to go on a geography trip to Morocco despite the constraints of my diet. A true failure of foresight. Tommorow, I'm leaving from school to go to Gatwick and from there Morocco. I'm getting back a week on Friday (i.e I'm missing all but two days of half-term). Firstly, this will be the first time I will have flown without my parents. Infact, the first time I've gone abroad without my parents. I have a special diet as I can't eat protien so food is going to be a bloody nightmare! I'm an organisational wreck, and I'm going to like lose my passport or boarding pass or something. It's gonna be horrible! And... and perhaps worse of all... I'm gonna miss everyone. Everyone on this site, everyone I know online but one thing I'm going to miss greatly, perhaps most of all, is the year 7s and playing football with them and such. I'm gonna miss 'em really badly! They're sweet young innocence, their lovely personalities... they're comparitive greatness at football compared to me. *sigh* I'll miss 'em so much. Which is insane as I've only been friendly with them for a short time. I'm just a fool... A fool who get's too easilly emmotionally attached to people... A fool who's gonna starve to death in Morocco... If he doesn't do something clumsy and get himself killed or something (you know Neville Longbottom? I'm scarilly similar to him). *sigh*

Whatever doesn't kill me only makes me stronger, I guess.

Oh, And I'll be working for most of it as well. And none of my paticular friends are going. There's a girl I like (not as girlfriend, just as a friend) going, and a year 13 whom I know and he's not bad. But still, none of my paticular friends... I'll probably spend most of it alone. At least the flight probably...

Well, farewell. Have a good week.
Re: My Waterloo  [message #22568 is a reply to message #22567] Wed, 20 October 2004 21:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nick is currently offline  nick

Likes it here
Location: London
Registered: July 2003
Messages: 351



Hope you have a nice trip. You never know - maybe you will make some new friends!
Re: My Waterloo  [message #22569 is a reply to message #22568] Thu, 21 October 2004 03:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Pyro is currently offline  Pyro

Toe is in the water
Location: Calgary Alberta Canada
Registered: September 2004
Messages: 87




Eothain, you're the only person i know who has to TRY to have fun in a nice warm place like Morocco. But i understand, school work, diet, passport (i almost did lose mine once, it was really scary) no particular friends. Traveling alone kinda consitutes a brush with the adult world and i know it would make me uneasy too. None the less, i know you'll survive, you'll see an interesting place and when you come back we'll all still be here (well, i promise i will)

Take care my friend, and enjoy Morocco.



Pyro.

(oh and by the way, those two songs you sent me today (you know the ones) well i think you might find something in your inbox when you get back (if i can find the courage Wink )



Do what you love, changing the world is incidental.
Re: Morocco  [message #22570 is a reply to message #22567] Thu, 21 October 2004 05:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
blue is currently offline  blue

Likes it here

Registered: August 2004
Messages: 131



I'll be here when you get back. Smile You'll have stories to tell about Morocco, and those new friends won't forget you exist in the meantime, either.

I hope you have a nice time in Morocco, seeing the sights, working, sampling Moroccan food, and maybe making a friend or two among the guys and girls going with you.

About a non- or low-protein diet, I don't know what things you can and can't eat. I'd think many vegetables and fruits would be alright, though. Do you take meds to help you tolerate proteins, since there are probably small amounts in many foods besides meats? If I knew the specific condition, I could look it up. I'd like to understand. Do you have a bracelet or necklace with a medical alert tag, or a card? I'm sure you must watch your diet anyway. There are bound to be some foods you can eat there.

Family vacations and school trips, we never went anywhere as exciting when I was in school. I'm gettin' a little jealous, here. Smile

I wonder if you could transfer from your chess ECA to that soccer (er, sorry, football) ECA, or reschedule the chess ECA to a different time or day. Getting marked absent or ditching class or failing it is not good. That would just add problems you don't need.

Hmm. Sounds like Pyro might have something fun for your inbox, whatever he's thinking of.

You're a great guy. Don't let anybody tell you different -- not even yourself.

~Blue
Re: Morocco  [message #22574 is a reply to message #22570] Thu, 21 October 2004 21:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
joesdog is currently offline  joesdog

Likes it here
Location: USA
Registered: June 2004
Messages: 252




Hey eothain--

Have some fun in Morocco, dude! I look forward to the stories when you get back. Take a few pics on a digital cam...would love to see some.

cheers!

aj



"I promise not to try not to fuck with your mind/ I promise not to mind if you go your way and i go mine/promise not to lie if i'm looking you right in your eye/promise not to try not to let you down."
--Eve6
Re: Morocco  [message #22578 is a reply to message #22570] Fri, 22 October 2004 04:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Pyro is currently offline  Pyro

Toe is in the water
Location: Calgary Alberta Canada
Registered: September 2004
Messages: 87




Hey Blue, did i attract your curiosity with that line about putting something in Eothain's inbox?
I guess seeing as how i mentioned it here it would only be fair if i told you the whole story.
I would have just sent Eothain the file that i'm going to send him and not mentioned it on the forum but i'm pretty sure that he checks this forum for new messages before he checks his inbox when he logs in so i thought i'd mention it here first.
Anyway, here's the story...Eothain and i were chatting on msn, i'm not sure exactly what the conversation was but it led to us discussing our mutual terrible singing voices (or maybe it was just my terrible singing voice) well anyway, Eothain had a couple of recordings of himself singing so he sent them over and i listened to them. To be honest i was impressed, not so much by the singing (you have a great voice Eothain, you just need a little (lot) of practice) i was more impressed by the courage he had to actualy send those to me. So anyway, after our conversation i thought it would only be fair if i recorded myself singing something and send it to him, then at least we'd be even.
So now i'm sitting here at my computer thinking..."what song?" well if anyone has a suggestion i'm interested in reading it.

I hope i didn't embarass you too much Eothain for posting this but if i did at least know that i will have embarased myself like 10X more when i chose a song and send it to you.

Hope you're having fun in Morocco,
Take care,


Pyro.



Do what you love, changing the world is incidental.
Re: Morocco  [message #22580 is a reply to message #22578] Fri, 22 October 2004 06:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
blue is currently offline  blue

Likes it here

Registered: August 2004
Messages: 131



I was curious, but not fishing. I realized it could be anything, including songs. Yes, I did wonder if it might be something, ah spicier. Sorry, guys, not tryin' to go there, really. -- Guys, I didn't mean to embarrass either of you. None of my business, btw.

Amateur singing, very cool. (Be proud of yourself, Eothain, that was a good step.) I sing in church choir, totally amateur. Kinda baritone, in between tenor and bass, now; but I was a boy soprano before certain things started growing. Heheh. My hair turned wavy instead of straight, too; never did understand that.

What to sing? Is there a favorite song, or something that doesn't give your voice fits to reach that high or low? Maybe a favorite band? Try something like that. There are some singers I really like, but my voice can't reach a comfort zone, it wants to go too high or too low. Sometimes it's a certain song by a group that gives me trouble, because of the range. It doesn't matter what kind of music, which kind of rock or whatever genre.

Don't worry if you don't sound perfect. The point is to enjoy singing. Yeah, it takes courage to sing for someone, including friends, especially in public. But it's way worth it. I've sung a solo a time or two. Kinda thrilling and kinda humbling, all at once. It gets easier (and more fun) with practice.

BTW, I have one friend who is really painfully shy. Really. Painfully. So is his wife. They are great people, though, and very smart and nice. When he gets up to do amateur acting, though, he lets himself ham it up and really enjoys it.

I'm mostly shy, but I've learned to work at it. I have done amateur acting like that too. Stage fright, remembering lines and marks and body language. I really liked it, though, despite being scared silly here and there. I think if I did that often enough, I'd really have fun and let go and pretend.

You might like something like that, singing or theatre or both. Just a thought.

What songs? I'll think up some suggestions, but it would help to know what kind of music or what groups you like most. Also, it would help if you know your voice range. Tenor, bass; high or low within those? If you don't know, that's OK too. Your voices might still be settling into their full place, even up to about 21. It varies because how every person matures varies. Some guys start early, some late; some change quickly, some slowly; and your voice is just as independent as the more obvious bits.


~Blue
Re: Morocco  [message #22584 is a reply to message #22578] Fri, 22 October 2004 07:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
joesdog is currently offline  joesdog

Likes it here
Location: USA
Registered: June 2004
Messages: 252




It's GOT to be the hands down favorite of Karaoke singers everywhere...Unchained Melody. Or if you want to be a little different, how 'bout "Betty Davis Eyes"? LOL I'd give money to hear you sing either one...



"I promise not to try not to fuck with your mind/ I promise not to mind if you go your way and i go mine/promise not to lie if i'm looking you right in your eye/promise not to try not to let you down."
--Eve6
Re: Morocco  [message #22585 is a reply to message #22584] Fri, 22 October 2004 07:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
joesdog is currently offline  joesdog

Likes it here
Location: USA
Registered: June 2004
Messages: 252




Actually, i took group vocal lessons when i was doing my prereqs for nursing school at community college. I sang a piece by Percy from his musical version of The Tempest, and a song by Ralph Van Williams...."Don't Get Around Much" by Count Bassie..."La Vie En Rose", made famous by Edith Piaf...but the most fun was a song called "The Codfish Ball" that shirley temple sang in the movie "Captain January." I had a blast in those classes!



"I promise not to try not to fuck with your mind/ I promise not to mind if you go your way and i go mine/promise not to lie if i'm looking you right in your eye/promise not to try not to let you down."
--Eve6
I chose an awesome song  [message #22636 is a reply to message #22580] Mon, 25 October 2004 22:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Pyro is currently offline  Pyro

Toe is in the water
Location: Calgary Alberta Canada
Registered: September 2004
Messages: 87




I finnaly did it, i found an awesome song for me to slaughter and send to Eothain. But...i'm not telling what it is until after Eothain gets back and hears it, i don't want to spoil the suprise. anyway, it's one of my favorites. I reacored myself numerous times, each time i played myself back i sat in shock and thought, "Is that really what i sound like? why don't people laugh at my voice, it sounds so strange." Anyway, i was finnaly able to make a decent recording and now i'm just wondering if i should mix in the back ground music or send it as is. I think maybe the back ground music might be cheating.

Ameture acting huh? I tried acting once when i was in grade 10 (15 years old) It wasn't that bad, the stage lights were really bright so i couldn't see the audence at all and even if i could it still wouldn't have been that bad. But singing infront of a crowd is something i could never do so i have nothing but admiration for you or anyone else who has done it.
I think i'd have to drink a lot before Karaoke would sound like a good idea, i'd probably have to drink more than it would take to get me sky diving Sad)


Take care,


Pyro.



Do what you love, changing the world is incidental.
Re: I chose an awesome song  [message #22649 is a reply to message #22636] Wed, 27 October 2004 16:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
tBP is currently offline  tBP

Likes it here
Location: England
Registered: February 2004
Messages: 242




no one can talk about awful singing until they hear me murder something beautiful like "Into the West" by annie lennox.

hey pyro, maybe oyu want to drop the files in my inbox to, if your voice is half as good as the face in the pics you sent, then i'm sure it'll be more than good!
if you want to hear a classic example of how not to sing, i can send you a piece... i wouldn't advise it though.


why is it boys can sing before their voice breaks, but can't sing afterward? what a harsh thing to do to someone who's dedicated their childhood to singing, but hits 14 and has to stop!


have fun guys,
Aden



Odi et amo: quare id faciam, fortasse requiris.
Nescio, set fieri sentio et excrucior
hehehehe...  [message #22666 is a reply to message #22585] Thu, 28 October 2004 05:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rodneygabe is currently offline  rodneygabe

Likes it here
Location: USA
Registered: July 2004
Messages: 101




no wonder you're so good at dodging flying objects... hehehe... Very Happy



"more tongue and groove than a hardwood floor"
Re: Morocco  [message #22693 is a reply to message #22585] Sat, 30 October 2004 11:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eothain is currently offline  Eothain

Likes it here
Location: Rohan!
Registered: April 2004
Messages: 108



Well, I'm back. Glad to see you guys have been having fun. Anyhow, the trip was actually really good. The food was alright (thank god for grapes, chips and onion) and the company was good too. Got to know a few people in year 11, and a lad in year 13 whom I had already known but now know better. He went to the same school as me, Edgeborough! Except he left the year before I joined.

Took loads of photos. 101, I think, to be exact. Three films of 25 and one of 26. I should be able to get them developed today so I'll make sure to scan the best ones. Such as the camel riding (photography from the back of a camel is fun!), the sunset in Marrakesh, and the mountain scenery. The stuff we did was fun, and I did all the work we were meant to do, so no worries there. My A/S geography paper is gonna rock! In theory. I also bought a big black robe thingy with a hood. Imagine the Libera or Klu Klux Klan robes (how funny that they're exactly the same!) but in black. I was tempted to get white to show my innocence and purity, but considering I have none of that, it would just be a false illusion, like shaving my pubic hair to pretend that I was 11. Plus, four other blokes in the group got black ones and it was funny, at the hotel there was another school staying and there were all like a bunch of townies, so we went outside with our robes on, hoods up and walked in silence from one side of the balcony where they were being loud and playing drums and overall 'hanging out'. It was so bloody funny! All of them turned their heads to face us, but the KKK wore white, not black, fools! Strangely, there also seemed to be like some 12 year olds in that group. Either that or really short, high pitched year 10s, 11s or whatever. Also, some bloke offered me some hash when we were walking from the hotel to the square. Me, being the immature person that I am, burst out laughing at this, and tried to say "No thankyou!" while laughing. Anyhow, it was fun. And I did get some gifts for those year 7s. Nothing major, but it's the thought that counts, right? Especially in this case! Oh, and I'm so wearing this robe on Monday at school. Double biology first thing with the head of middle-school, haha!
Re: Morocco  [message #22696 is a reply to message #22693] Sat, 30 October 2004 17:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
blue is currently offline  blue

Likes it here

Registered: August 2004
Messages: 131



!! Welcome Back !! Sounds like you had a great time. Photos from camels, huh? Sort of "motion of the ocean of the desert," I'd guess. All that stuff about the black robes, oddly reminds me of "The Omega Man" or "The Magnificent Seven" for some reason. Laughing -- I bet you have some great photos, though. Would be nice to see 'em.

So you didn't do too badly diet-wise, either? That's good. I'm curious how you manage, since I suppose you take something to help with protein digestion, stuff like that, and a lot of foods must be a problem.

It sounds like you had a good time, even with the work part, and the sight-seeing sounds like a blast. Heheh, good sense that you turned down the hash. Kinda funny too. You got to know a few guys better, also good.

Oh, and don't let it worry you that you shaved your pubic hair before. It sounds like you decided that wasn't the right look for you, or the way you wanted to be. That's fine. And shaving there in itself isn't anything to think twice about. I hear some swimmers do it, for instance.

I hope things keep looking up for you, Eothain. You do know, don't you, that when you have times you're down or worried, you can still talk about that, right? It's great when you're feeling fine. But you don't have to pretend, if you don't feel fine, either.

I'm still listening, for instance. "Good times, bad times, you know I've had a few."

~Blue
Re: Morocco  [message #22700 is a reply to message #22696] Sat, 30 October 2004 23:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eothain is currently offline  Eothain

Likes it here
Location: Rohan!
Registered: April 2004
Messages: 108



I do take something which is sort of a protien supplement, some aminogram and sevarvit stuff. I mainly survived on pre-packed biscuits and bread, grapes, onion, chips and other assorted vegetables.

Anyway, here are some photos. I won't upload all 126 of them, unless you really want me to. Razz

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v189/neo222/Sunset2.jpg

Photo taken from the roof of my third hotel in Marrekesh which is situated just in front of the main Mosque in the city.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v189/neo222/Valley.jpg

The view from my first hotel in Imlil.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v189/neo222/Streets.jpg

The streets of Marrakesh, as seen from the balcony of my hotel.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v189/neo222/Me.jpg

Hugh-ance of Arabia!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v189/neo222/Gueliz.jpg

More streets in Marrakesh.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v189/neo222/Donkey.jpg

Photo taken on our first field work day on the way to a village. In the background is the hotel.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v189/neo222/Camels.jpg

Our camel train.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v189/neo222/Desert.jpg

'My god, it's a barren, featureless desert out there!'

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v189/neo222/Arch.jpg

Street shot in the Medina (the 'old' town).

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v189/neo222/Fountain.jpg

A big fountain in the Gueliz (the 'new' town).

As for feeling fine, or not, I don't really have any reason to not feel fine or, well, content... well, except... No. Nevermind. But I'm okay, I guess.
Re: Morocco  [message #22701 is a reply to message #22700] Sun, 31 October 2004 00:09 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
blue is currently offline  blue

Likes it here

Registered: August 2004
Messages: 131



Hey, pictures! That sunset's really something. Some are exotic, some remind me of California or of far west Texas or other spots. Then there's some fellow who looks rather Anglo-Norman, astride a camel. Smile Who was more surprised, you or the camel, hmm?

That must have been a remarkable, unusual trip. You got a first-hand look at a foreign culture, good and bad, though brief.

Feeling fine is fine, and content is enough and pleasant besides.
Previous Topic: Im so sad, lonely, i was angry, but now im only sad. Please
Next Topic: Please can we learn when to start new threads?
Goto Forum: