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Eothain
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Likes it here |
Location: Rohan!
Registered: April 2004
Messages: 108
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Dodgy images, on the computer... My mum. No more need be said. I'm feeling depressed now. Eurgh.
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Well you can alway talk to me if you need to.
In Pride,
--Hinch
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13780
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Heavens. Two things here:
1) Depending on what they are, get rid of them. Totally. Anything under 18 is unlawful. Do not just delete them, but erase them.
2) Take time to talk to your mother. Remember that ALL boys like porn. So you are not special here. So, just for once, take advice and speak to her about you, your needs and your orientation
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Timmy has given good advice.
I hope everything goes well for you.
I was taught that the 11th commandment is "Thou shalt not get found out".
But maybe it's too late now
The paradox has often been noted that the United States, founded in secularism, is now the most religiose country in Christendom, while England, with an established church headed by its constitutional monarch, is among the least. (Richard Dawkins, 2006)
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Eothain
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Likes it here |
Location: Rohan!
Registered: April 2004
Messages: 108
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The first thing I did was deleate them and I'll never aquire anything like that again. I did sort of talk to my mum, but it was just really awkward and I just said the reason for starting it in the first place was just curiosity (which is true, if I remember rightly) and it's just a phase or something. I don't know. This totally sucks. Talk about chucking a spanner into the wheel. Why does it all have to turn out horribly? Why does my life have to be so bloody messed up and have all these bloody things happen? *sigh*
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13780
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You need to think this through. And I do not wnat to know what type of pictures you had.
First of all, pure deletion is useless for such things. You have just broadcast to the world that you have some sort of undesirable stuff on your machine, and you need to erase, not delete. White space on your machine needs to be wiped of the pictures were in any way of doubtful ages.
Having dealt with that, you know you mother loves you. So talk to her properly. Forget "Awkward", just talk. I also made you an offer some time ago. That still stands.
Do not blow this out of proportion. My son caught me looking at gay porn online. If you want a "Disater of epic proportions waiting to happen" that was it. That day I could have lost him. As it happened he hugged me when I came out to him the following day.
So your life isn't over. You are just somewhat embarrassed because your mother knows you masturbate over mucky pictures. Well I have news for you. She already knew you masturbate. All mothers do, except mine, of course. Who aske dme "Do you masturbate, dear?" when I was 17 or so.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Hi Eothain,
I'm really sorry to hear of your situation, whatever it is. I hope you manage to sort things out with your mother.
I felt I ought to post a warning here for anyone who is curious about using the internet for illegal purposes. Don't do it! There is a widespread misconception that the internet is anonymous. It *is* fairly anonymous for private things like personal email, but as soon as the law becomes involved ISPs can be forced to give up their logs and it is possible to trace virtually everything a particular internet user has done at a certain time and date.
For example --
File-sharing networks - everything is logged by the computers sharing the files, and in the case of centralised ones like Kazaa probably by Kazaa themselves.
The web - all web servers store logs of all their visitors, and the logs are not usually emptied for weeks or months, if at all - if a machine is seized then the police can find out the IP addresses of all the visitors, and potentially follow it up by contacting the relevant internet service providers.
That said, most child pornography prosecutions are traced through credit cards, I believe. But they can easily trace you even if you don't use one!
Anonymising proxies - there are anonymous proxies available on the internet, but you have no idea what they are logging - they could even be run by law enforcement agencies!
There are some anonymous filesharing networks that use encryption and very clever algorithms to transfer files totally anonymously, but none of them work very well. And in the UK, at least, I believe you can be sent to prison if you won't unencrypt encrypted files for the police.
Email - email is generally routed through three or four different computers on its way to its destination, and since it is stored as plain text (unless it is specifically encrypted) any of those computers can read it. Also, mail servers almost log the origins and destination of an email, and sometimes the headers, so it is really easy to trace what has happened to an email.
The internet itself - when you connect to another computer over the internet you are probably connecting through somewhere between 10 and 30 other computers or routers on the way. Any of those computers can "sniff" the data you are sending and get a pretty good idea of what you are doing. This is why you should ALWAYS make sure you are using encryption when sending credit card data, incidentally.
Copyright violations like music, movie and software sharing are also logged and easily traceable - the only reason that it is safer is that copyright violation is not a very serious crime. But you could be caught and fined for that too quite easily if the music/film/software industries devoted (even) more time and effort to the problem. That said, they tend to go after the people who *share* files (make them available to others) rather than those who just download them for personal use.
My apologies, Eothain, for writing such a long and fairly off-topic email.
Best wishes
Deej
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Eothain
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Likes it here |
Location: Rohan!
Registered: April 2004
Messages: 108
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Well, my brother in Australia phoned up today. I knew something was up by the fact that he phoned up to speak to me. So basically, there was a long conversation and he suggested I should go see counciller and stuff. Still, it was quite upsetting. Also, there was the more legal side to the conversation which was pretty horrible.
Then after that I talked to my mum for a while and stuff saying at one stage that I felt "deprived of a normal childhood" due to what happened (and I'm not talking about what happened when I was 11). The only significance of that, probably, is that it gives an actual year and was the latest thing when something not so good happened. But I'd been nostalgic before and it had been inclusive of a time after the event (i.e. when I was 13). I used 11 as a number because of that maybe, and it was a deffinate age but 7, 9, 8, 11, 12 even (won't say 13 because year 9 sucked) all meant the same thing - my childhood. At least, that is my belief. And it is also my belief that the thing at 11 has been blown slightly out of proportion (maybe by myself). Sure it was bad, but I've experieneced worse things...
Now, what I fear most is that these recent developments will create an atmosphere of... I don't know what exactly, just a bad atmosphere and it will ruin the whole atmosphere and everything and no-one will look at me in the same way ever again and I'll be subject to being talked about behind my back and so on. Though my mum assures me this will not be the case, I still fear it (maybe it's an unjustified fear)...
Though I really never will do anything like that ever again. I was stupid to have done it, and I guess I've paid the price but, one can only learn from their mistakes.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13780
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I think your brother was both right to talk to you because he had been told, and also should not hav been told without your permission. However that is done. Water and bridges come to mind.
Have you actually listened when I spoke of erasing files not just deleting them? You say a lot about you, never about whether you have taken advice on board. Listen carefully, please. You are at risk. So act on that risk.
As for "Never doimg...." That is pure bullshit and a reaction to nbeing caught. You will look at porn again and you will enjoy it. Everyone, well most everyone, does. What you have to be immensely careful about is not the acts shown, but the ages of the models. While the age of consent is 16 the age limit in a pciture is 18. And this law is retrospective, making previously legal collections illegal.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Eothain
I'd strongly echo Timmy's advice about fully erasing all dodgy files. But you know all that.
Most of us on the forum only know you from the posts you make when you're at emotional extremes - very happy or very miserable (although I know there are a few guys like Timmy you talk to off the board). In some ways, this means that we don't know the normal you. That doesn't stop us wishing you the best, supporting you, or being on "your side".
I slightly get the impression that you feel that if you talk about your difficulties to any kind of professional recommended by anyone else, there's a part of you that may feel that the professional is on "their side" not "your side". Have you thought about YOU picking someone YOU've found, who YOU trust, who will have NO connection (other than paying the bills) with anyone else in your life?. Dammit, if necessary, pay them in cash and get the money from your parents later, so there is NO direct communication. I don't think you'd get anything but respect if you were to take control of things in this way.
You may have to talk to several potential therapists / counsellors / helpers etc before you find one that you can feel entirely relaxed with, but this is very usual. As long as they're professionally accredited, it doesn't matter a jot whether other people think they're suitable, the best, or anything - what matters is being right for you ! And you both could and should make it very clear that you don't talk about what is spoken about in sessions to friends and family: they MUST respect that. It's entirely up to you if you occasionally choose to share the odd thing - but there can't be any expectation of 'progress reports' or anything, and it would be SERIOUSLY wrong of anyone to expect them.
as always, warm wishes.
NW
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
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Eothain
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Likes it here |
Location: Rohan!
Registered: April 2004
Messages: 108
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About fully erasing the files, I don't really know what you mean by that. I deleated them, I ran a disk clean-up, what more can I do?
And Timmy, I meant I would never look at anything with the models below 18, not that I wouldn't look at porn in general. That I may do (though to be honest, I rather wouldn't but meh...)
As for the whole councillor thing. I wouldn't trust anyone and it's not like I have any connection with anyone whom I could chose to go to but grudingly, I agreed to my mum to see a councillor.
And my sister came and talked to me. Hurray... Though now, I get the feeling that everyone thinks that there's something wrong with me and I'm messed up in the head and need counselling to be 'cured', maybe I'm just getting a completely wrong impression.
Yes, I do tend to have extremes of moods, but recently that had been not so apparent, mainly due to Alex. Not that I am friends with him, just I've come to realize I'm not friends with him and just accepting what I have (friendshipwise). Truth be told, I was quite looking foward to thursday, as it'd be the first day in ages when I could be... carefree, after having finished my exams and having no lessons. I could just relax, and hang out with the year 7s and such. Of course, a spanner was shoved in the engine of that dream (by now, I should have realized that nothing in my life can ever go as planned, even something as simple as that...)
I'm still feeling down though, in fact, a bit worse than before. Eurgh...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13780
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If the pictures are over 18, that is fine. What otyu can do is to get a utility that WIPES white space. Delete simly deletes the piinters to the files, not the data. But 18+ is fine
And if they are 18+ do not feel guilty about looking. Do not feel guilty about getting more. Do not feel any guilt of any description.
The counsellor you want (note that a "Councillor" is a locally elected representative, seeing one of those is useless) is very local to you. i have given you his name and address before. Ask me by email and I will tell you again.
But frankly what you need is a mother and son talk. A proper one. Without defences up on either side
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Eothain
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Likes it here |
Location: Rohan!
Registered: April 2004
Messages: 108
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On MSN a sec ago, Timmy said: "and actuallty life doe snot suck really bloody bad. You seem to spend your time behaving like a very spoiled and sullen brat,and you cause the alleged bad things to happen to you." How bloody nice that is. Really morale boasting. What the **** is the point in insulting someone who's already pretty distraught? I'm sure it does lots of good. And I cause the bad things to happen to me, eh? I suppose I caused myself to get brain damage then? And I caused all the things rellated to that? And I hardly spend my time acting like a spoilt brat. BIG FUCKING DEAL, SO I'M NOT OVERLY KEEN TO SEE A FUCKING COUNSELLOR! GOOD GOD, THAT MAEKS ME WORSE THAN HITLER DOESN'T IT?!?!?! Cheers. Cheers a lot. For bloody ages, all that's ever been done is bugging to see a counsellor, intermixed with various insulting comments like that. So I've finally had enough. If I wanted to be called a brat, I would go on Big Brother or act like one. But I'll remember to call anyone a spoilt brat if they ever show reluctance to do anything. Well, this spoilt brat is off now.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13780
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Just to be clear, you now have all the information you need in order to find a top class counsellor for your mother to help oyu in the only way she seems to know. Though she woudl be a damned sight better actually making you talk to her for once instead of waiting for you to get around to it.
You have his name and you have his address. And he is within 2 miles of where you live.
I have kind of lost interest in hearing the "I love Alex and he's 12 years old" stuff. And the "Alex is not my friend" stuff. Of course he isn;t. You are four years older than he is. Maybe he'll be old enough to be your friend when you are 20. Right now he is not.
You need to see the counsellor. Period. Yes, this sounds harsh. It is time for you to receive the hard news about yourself. It is not everyine else's fault. You are where you are today beciase you have made the decisions you have made. Thus you must want to be where you are in your life.
If you don't like where you are, then make new decisions and change it. Doiing what you have alwasy done and expecting thinsg to change is insanity. It just does not happen.
High on your agenda should be getting over kids Alex's age. Instead you glorify them. Yes, they are good looking, and everything you were at 11. But you are 16. So get over it. And see the right counsellor.
This one is gay friendly, teen friendly, professional, content to work with people with under age attractions and plain good. Or see one your mother chooses for you. Trust me. All counsellors are not the same. Some report clients to the authorities.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13780
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I know you are waiting for a reaction to this.
The reaction is simple. Get over it and grow up. It is time to stop behaving like a spoiled brat. So do so.
And, if you want the entire conversation and the context, I have it. What I don't have are the lengthy waiting periods. You need help. Stop hiding behindn the brain damage when you were an infant and get help.
[Updated on: Sat, 11 June 2005 19:15]
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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i know wehat your saying timmy, i've said it to him myself before as well...
but eothain is, offline, a very shy introvert person, he has a hard time opening up to ANYONE parents and friends included, and this is a particularly painful subject to him. its embarrassing for him to talk about it, and it involves him facing up to some truths he's not quite ready to accept yet.
please, don't be too harsh on him.... there is a lot of help and advice available here, don;t drive him from this place. everyone needs their own "place of safety"
i'll try and talk to him some more myself, don;t give up on him though timmy... please... i know, and agree with most of what you are saying to him, but tyr and see his side of things too...
Odi et amo: quare id faciam, fortasse requiris.
Nescio, set fieri sentio et excrucior
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13780
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There are times, as you know, that a kick is ean essential part of helping someone. Give up on him? No. Need him to walk towards me, pace for pace? Yes.
There is a brick wall here. I have a bloody forehead from knocking my head against it. If you know him as well as I believe you do, somehow get him to sort this out. I have offered to speak with him to his mother. Or to speak to his mother for him.
He has to walk towards help. If he does not then help will not, absolutely not, find him from any source.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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First......
Black Prince... I don't think you are anyone at all qualified to advise anyone reguarding the tendencies toward cross-generational encounters... Quite frankly your own history has proven my point here.
As for Eothain..... He will not let up until he manages to bugger a 12 year old.
He needs help... He needs it very soon... It would be better if it was due to his own volition rather than a court order.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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I don't think 4 years' difference really counts as cross-generational...
It all depends on what Ethoain intends to do. If he has the restraint and maturity to appreciate that sexuality is not something that one can push onto someone so young, and is prepared to accept that, then there is not really a problem.
But if he is looking to go beyond that, then the situation becomes very difficult indeed. It is perfectly possible for someone to control one's attractions. But it is not a good idea to advertise them, here or anywhere.
But I don't know him, so I'm not in any position to judge.
David
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Eothain has been lusting over a series of young boys for over a year.
He will not stop. It is an obcession with him.
He needs real time therapy.
Not sugar coated advise which will continue to urge him toward hurting some kid.
This is not by any means advice...... It is a clear warning.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13780
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The challenge is not his intentions. It matters little what his intentions are. What matters is the perception people have of his intentions.
In Marc's post you see a clearly defined perception. He has based it wholly rationally on the posts made by Eothain over the months. Whether is is a correct perception or not is immaterial. Well if it is correct it is patently not immaterial to the 12 year old, obviously. But otherwise it is immaterial. The perception is the reality Eothain faces.
As we have seen with Jackson, protestations of innocence do not prevent an arrest and trial. And this is what I and many others have been trying to drum into Eothain online and offline.
I am forced to agree with Marc's perception. From the evidence before me, despite protestations otthe ocntrary, I have a similar perception. I accept that this is likely to be an unfair perception, but it has been increasing inexorably as time has passed.
That does not mean I have abandoned trying to help him. But, to be helped, he has to walk towards the help.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13780
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I should add here that several people who do not post here have said to me "This boy is in grave danger of abusing a child" and suggested that he needs not help, but a more formal approach wearing a uniform.
That is not something I am interested in pursuing. But others might.
So, to be blunt, he had damned well better get himself to the right counsellor and start sorting his life out.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Hmm...
That sounds particularly grave. I wasn't really aware of how much back story there was to this. On the whole I tend to trust people to behave in a responsible manner as most of the people I have known have been intelligent and rational people.
It is harsh to say it, but if what you say is true then it is probably lucky that Eothain's family now know about the problem before it gets worse.
Oh dear... I should probably try not to get too involved in this issue as it is really nothing to do with me.
David
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I rather agree with Timmy - what matters is the *perception* that people may have of Eothain's intentions.
Even if Eothain's desires are possibly rather mixed, it is, as Deej says, quite possible to control one's attractions. Eothain has indicated that he's sometimes worried about his ability to do so (his post of 6th Feb) - the fact that he is able to articulate and face this worry does actually considerably reassure me.
My own experience with this kind of situation is very limited - to having been the younger party in an abusive relationship by someone who was five years older than me, starting when I was the age of the kids that Eothain finds attractive. Eothain doesn't seem to share many characteristics with my abuser, but I guess that's not really a guide.
And we've all urged Eothain to get some sensible help. And his post on Jun 11th says that he has reluctantly agreed to see a counsellor - I hope he goes through with it, and I hope that he manages to strike up a working relationship with the counsellor, or try others until he finds one he can do so with - I'm a little afraid that he may not be able to develop an appropriate theraputic relationship if he feels that he has not really been in a position to give informed agreement. But any help is better than none.
And Eothain - if and when you read this:
I repeat what I've said before - you have my best wishes. But any interaction on the forum, or MSN or whatever, with untrained people (however well-intentioned) is no substitute for getting sensible help. Oh, I - and I know others - will always be here. But you do need more than that.
And the right counsellor can really make a difference. I've been seeing someone for the past seven months, helping me come to terms with my experiences of being abused 35 years ago, and the ongoing consequences. And ... my final session is in two weeks time. And I'm a damn sight happier than I was!
NW
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
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It is really important to find a counsellor who is experienced.
About five years ago I saw a psychologist who really wasn't very inexperienced and she was extremely unprofessional; to be honest, I think I went downhill under her. She managed to make some some suggestions to my parents -- who were out of their depth -- and my housemaster -- who was out of his -- that were, in retrospect, totally inappropriate and have seriously affected my entire life since, and quite possibly my career.
On the other hand, I have seen a couple of very experienced psychiatrists in the past and both of them have been really helpful.
Eothain -- sorry if I have sounded at all judgemental. As I don't know you all I can go on is the opinions of others, which are very mixed. I wish you the best of luck and I hope this is all sorted out soon.
Deej
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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I on the other hand feel that it is the 12 year old boy that needs help.
If I see a sparking electrical outlet I will inform the building super to see that it is made secure.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Eothain,
I as well hope you do find a therapist that you can talk through these issues.
I wish you no ill will on any level. I never have. I do however speak my mind and I never pull any punches. If I seem harsh toward you it is because you need to be harshly spoken to.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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On bad counselors..... OH MY GAWD, there are some real dopes out there...
But there are some gems too... A long time ago something bad happened to me and i underwent therapy for issues several times. I became very good at wedding out the chaff and dumped them without mercy or payment for that matter. The good ones however are the men and women that help because they have a passion to do so.
Eothain,
The counselor Tim recomended is not one to be sneezed at... He is kind and compassionate and as non-judgmental as any person can be.
He can help you if you choose to seek help.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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XXX wrote:
> On bad counselors..... OH MY GAWD, there are some real dopes out there...
>
Yup - I had one when I was 20. Extremely experienced, highly recommended, by a family member I'm close to (who is an internationally-known child therapist who has always accepted I'm gay). Lasted three months. Put me off therapy for nearly thirty years!
That's one of the reasons I'd really like to encourage Eothain to persist. No matter how experienced, competent etc any counsellor is ... if you don't 'click', don't let that drag you down. There are others - try several if you have to.. There is NO FAULT on either side if any particular counsellor / client combination just doesn't work.
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
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