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Matty
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Getting started |
Location: United States of America
Registered: July 2005
Messages: 2
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Hello. My name is Matt,(my friends call me Matty) I’m a 16 year old from Utah who is lost, confused and broken. As some of you may know Utah is the headquarters of the Mormons or The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. This church says that homosexuality is very wrong and unnatural and is a sin against nature. This is also the church that I have been raised in my entire life. Yet deep inside of me I have feelings, feelings of wanting to be held, of wanting someone to be my best friend, of wanting to hold someone, of wanting a strong shoulder to cry on, feelings of wanting to love another male and be loved back. These feelings are like a hole in my heart and soul, they won’t go away, it’s just this deep ache. But if I do follow that path in my life then I would be excommunicated from the church that is so deeply ingrained in the lives of everyone I know, my family would disown me and I would be left high and dry. I don’t know what to do anymore. What do you do when you want something so badly that your heart, soul, body and mind aches for it constantly, but when you have been taught all your life that it is wrong. What do you do? I guess I am writing this because I am hoping that there is someone out there that can help me get through this and who will just talk to me. This is a plea I guess, a desperate plea for help.
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Hi Matty
I'm really sorry to hear that you're going through such a difficult time at the moment. I'm glad you posted. There are certainly people here who will always listen to you and try to support you.
And I know it is difficult trying to make sense of the conflict between your feelings and what you have been taught is right. It is OK to feel confused about it.
You seem pretty clear in your own mind that you are attracted to other males, and that it is an emotional as well as physical thing. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, if that is what feels right for you. I know that the faith in which you have been raised is not amongst the most accepting, but others have faced this before (if you haven't visited it already, the site http://www.affirmation.org may help: written very much from an LDS perspective, but striving to be impartial and balanced).
Can I ask if there is any particular deadline that is putting pressure on you at the moment - such as having to subscribe to an honour code, or make some other kind of affirmation? Or is it just stuff that has been building up for a long time, and has now reached a level you find really difficult to deal with?
Do please keep in touch with the forum (or mail me if you prefer). Best wishes.
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13780
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We have another of your religion here. I hope he is able to answer you properly regarding the religious elements because I cannot.
What I can say is that usually but not always family comes before religion. And I know your problem is the "not always" element. I hope someone can remind us of the Mormom parents who supported their gay son through thick and thin? It became something of a cause celebre?
At 16 I know, because in a different way I was there, that every day is an achingly long time. At 18 I was too afraid of my past to reinvent myself for my present, so I grew up apparenlty str8 and married, to great initial joy of loving and being loved, and then despair that I was not loved by a man.
If I had my time again I would have reinvented myself the day I left home and went to university. I am hoping youi will not have to attend a local university, if university is the route you are heading. And I do know how far this feels in the future.
http://www.truluck.com may be of some help for you in resolving faith based issues. I know with a certainty that God does not make mistakes. So you and all other gay boys, teenagers and men exist for a reason. It seems odd to me that a religion then forms that rails against us. But the religion is manufactured by men striving to understand the universe, it is not itself created by the deity it worships. And, since men are fallible, so is religion. Faith is different, is personal and is something one can live and love by in private.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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... at least two Mormons (other than the one Timmy refers to, with he being a frequent contributor) who make this Forum their home, both seldom heard from but whose presence is often felt. Perhaps one or the other will again venture out of the shadows to help this youth.
Warren C. E. Austin
Toronto, Canada
"... comme recherché qu'un délice callipygian"
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13780
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That would be excellent. Secualr matters we can all deal with, but religion based matters are far harder.
And, dammit,all Matty needs is a really good, sweet friend to snuggle with.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Try.......
http://members.aol.com/WasatchWeb/
There might be some answers there.......
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13780
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Marc, this is a wonderful resource, the more so since it includes a 1-800 number for US troubled LDS people to be able to contact it.
Matty, this looks as though it may add to the help you are looking for. We'd certainly like to hear if it was useful for you, too
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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It was taken from the "religion" section of the resources area from the community website I administer.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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TygerBoiSammy
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Toe is in the water |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 57
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Hiya Matty. I'm Sammy, sometimes known as Tyger. I'm 15, from Massachusetts, currently stuck in Hurricane Alley (aka Florida Gulf Coast), I was raised very catholic and I'm undeniably gay. I'm in a relationship, so don't think this is like some random guy trying to hit on you. But like, we all need to talk from time to time. Even if just to another scared, lost, confused, lonely and at times broken kid. I recently came out to my parents, and, well, it wasn't pretty at first, but that was just because of other cirumstances. They took it really well. I was so terrified that they wouldn't tho. Still, if you just need someone to speak to, a sounding board in the darkness of the internet or just plain a shoulder to cry on, you've come to the right place. The people here are awesome. They sometimes get carried away on the heat of an issue, but that just shows you that they care passionately for each other and for what this site stands for. Don't let any perceived arguments scare you off. Besides, it's only when you get real that you learn the truth.
So like, holla back sometime, Matty. We're all in this together. And who knows, you might wind up with the answers you seek, or if nothing else, a better idea of the questions you need to ask.
OH yeah, before I go, one more thing.
HUGS!
Cya round, Tyger
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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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I think I, more than any of the regulars here can sympathise with what you are going through. No offence to the others as they are all a bunch of great guys, but I grew up LDS, too. There a lot of options you have, but none of them are easy. Just remember a few things- most of all free agency. If you want to talk to me you can reach me by email, MSN, Yahoo IM or a number of different ways. Just let me know. It's torturous. I've been there. Yet all is not lost. You can make it through.
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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Hey Matty !!! I so empathize with you !!! I was there... Mormon and all. I know what it feels like to ache inside so bad for that right guy to come along and be your friend, walk with you... love you... hold you... and it seems that day after day it gets stronger...
But you have the society all around you that you grew up with. Mormonism everywhere, and you just can't afford to come out. You are afraid to, because you know not only will your family ostracize you, but you will be excommunicated from the Church if you don't denounce your homosexuality.
Matty, you are just who God madeyou to be. The longings you have inside you are God placed, not Matty made-up. You are right to feel what you do. The question to be asked is what to do now?
Be patient. Don't do anything that you are not comfortable doing. Timmy said that if you are going to college, then maybe wait until then. I agree. I waited until I was much older to come out and things came out great. My mom loves my boyfriend. My dad doesn't say much about it, but accepts Michael. My brother still thinks God hates me. I jsut don't care... and that is a place you will get to... really. You will get to the point of not caring what everyone else thinks or says. It is not easy at first, but as you are honest with yourself, you will get stronger and stronger, and it will be ok then. Just wait until you can do it and go for it. Think out how it will affect your life, but please understand that no matter what, it is your very own life, and you need to be honest with yourself and God, both. That is the only way you will be happy.
I pray for you, Matty. Please email me if you want to talk. I will always be here to help if I can.
Hugs, and Huge Smiles!!!!!
BamBam 
Celebrate your life... embrace your love... Become intimate with your place in forever !!!
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Hi Matt,
I don't think I can really add anything to what everyone else has been saying, except to send a message of support. I can't say I know very much about your religion, or about your particular situation, but I am thinking of you and hoping that everything will turn out all right.
Hate almost always arises through fear, whether fear of God, fear of difference, or - worst of all - fear of what may be lurking inside oneself. Rational and intelligent people should always be prepared to look past their prejudice and respect other people's opinions, whether they agree with them or not. If they cannot - in short, they are not worth knowing.
Wishing you the best of luck. If you'd like to talk to me or email me or anything, you're welcome to. (I was just wondering if I'd spoken to you before, or whether it was someone else?)
David
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13780
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I have just been toalking to a friend in Edinburgh. He has beena bishop and laso has served on the disciplinary things above bishops. He has worked with 2 others overseeing more than one stake.
He has experience of handling the trauma of a faith that conflicts with homosexuality with boys and girls of your age.
His advice is as follows, and holds good provided you are "mainstream LDS". If you are a member of one of the sub cultures that practice polygamy still he says this advice will not work, for they are hard line in the extreme:
If you need to, you may see your bishop in total confidence. You state at the beginning that the conversation is to be 100% ocnfidential and he must respect that. The bishop should work properly with you to help you identify thye route you want your life to take.
If you choose to talk to your parents it is likely that all three of you will wish to visit the bishop, under the same confidentiality.
He was clear that LDS views homosexuality as a sin, and that they truly hate the sin and truly love the sinner.
He feels it is not an excommunication matter at all, and that guidance in your lifetstyle, including "don't ask don't tell" for being discretely gay works well in LDS.
There is a vast social welfare LDS network of experienced and professional people who will also work under confidentiality IF ASKED at the outset. He says that actually Utah is a great place for that very reason. There are people in abundance who genuinely wish to help if you need it.
His main advice was to wait and try to take no action to satisfy your physical needs with another boy. He hopes that you will not end up as a gay man, but siggests that the longer you can wait the better you wil be able to resolve the fact that LDS sees homosexuality as a sin, and will be able, if necessary, to make a choice between faith and orientation. he does not see this as a choice to be made lightly, or too young.
In his experience 90% of parents in LDS handle a son;s homosexuality well. There is a bit of shouting and yelling as they understand, but the social and faith based support networks also help them a great deal.
He was 100% certain that any counselling you may receive is not "boot camp" but is gentle and lifetstyle and, yes faith based, but brainwashing it is not. Instead it is built around you to help you to decide to remain in the faith and learn to live with latent homosexuality, or to leave the faith and be a gay man. But he said there is no pressure either way.
Oh the bishop. if he proves hostile you may ask to go above him.
Now this may be at variance with other things you have found. I siomply present it as it was told to me
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13780
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We've been wondering how you are doing?
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Matty
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Getting started |
Location: United States of America
Registered: July 2005
Messages: 2
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I've been thinking alot lately, probably a little too much. And then I just stopped thinking about it, I through it all out the window and hoped that if I didn't do anything it would all just go away. But it didn't. Some guy would come in to where I work and I would see the strong arms, peircing eyes and loving face and all I wanted was to be loved by somebody like that. I knew it wouldn't work, but I have to try right? I have to beat it. Then I would go to the school football game and see the players or some kid would walk passed me in the hall and I knew. I guess I've been going through a bit of denial. But I don't know, heck who does know? I guess you could say things took a turn for the worse in my little world. My parents found out. I guess my mom suspected for awhile, I think that shes still hoping that this is just a stage in my life. I'll get over it and move on. We don't talk about it anymore, in fact we only did once and there was a lot of crying, on my part. I kept telling myself, that this was not supposed to happen, at least not yet anyways. I was suppossed to have years to decide how, if and when I wanted them to find out about everything. Time robbed me of that luxury. There is something that you have to understand about me. When I get angry I'm mad for a few seconds and then I can physically feel it slipping away, being put somewhere else and buried. I's the same with most of my emotions. I get hurt by someone and I bury it. But for some reason I don't blow up. I don't really feel anything. I'm feeling everything at the same time, that it just feels like nothing. Does that make sense? I don't know I guess I'm just venting and rambling on now and taking the advantage of having someone to talk to about what is really going on inside me. But when my emotions start to spill, just a little the dam breaks, just for a few minutes and then I'm calm and I feel nothing. I've buried myself in school classes, focusing everything there. Because I can't take it. I can't take having no one to hold me and love me. So I can't think about that, even if it the thing that I want more than anything I can't have it. I don't know anyone at my school who is even remotely gay. A few years ago a kid got beat up because he was gay. I'm scared, but I want someone. I don't even know anymore. I'm waiting for Prince Charming to come by and sweep me up and take me away to his magic castle and we'll live happily ever after. But then I remind myself that that won't and can't happen, I live in Utah, gay people don't live in Utah, and this is life, things like that and people like that don't happen. Prince Charming doesn't exist. And if he does, god be willing he finds me. Because I don't know how or what to look for. I guess I'm hanging on by one word. Just one word. Hope.
Sincerly yours,
Matty
P.s I would just like to thank everyone for thier e-mails, it makes my day to come home and see that someone cares enough to send me something. For that I thank you and thank you for listening
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13780
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I don't know how much it helps to hear it, but in different ways a number of us have been there, or are there still. We were in a different environment, maybe, or a similar one.
Mine was hiding from the world while desperately wanting my own primce charming, and actually wanting to be found out by the right people but dreading being found by the wrong ones.
No-one was gay in the land and time when I grew up either. Even the one boy at my school who was gay, while a single man today, professes to chase large breates blonde ladies. I have my doubts there. I was not gay either, of course. So, if anyone had even flirted with me I wodl have never returned the flirts unless, by happy coincidence, he had been one that I already wanted.
In the same manner that no-one was gay and there was no gay perosn where I lived (socially unacceptable) there are no gay people in Utah. Except, of course, for the large number who are working through the stress of being faithful to the church and living a heterosexual life while having the inner agony of being homosexual. Yup, that one works for me, but for different reasons.
There are some facts about prince charming.
See, he is just as terrified as you are. He has a mother who may know and a father who may be passionately "ungay". He has friends he woudl hate to lose, a school career that he enjoys, and a feeling of safety in the halls where he walks. And, while he may adore you from afar, he will not dare to tell you in case you beat him to a pulp.
It's college, if you go, where you will meet him. So research a non LDS college, go out of state, reinvent yourself and be who you are when you get there. And look for him, properly, actively and gently.
I need to look at teenage relationships and real, deep, abiding love in teenage years. First it happens. Second it is rare. Heterosexual teenagers do not get the warmth you crave because mostly they are incapable yet of giving or receiving it. Homosexual teenagers actually may be a little different because the emptiness is there, so they know it needs to be, can be, filled.
If being held for sex is the important thing, I know you will not believe this, but sex with yourself is at least as good as sex with someone else. Sensation wise, at least. And you can, if you fantasise hard, make up for a lot of the lack of companionship, make up for it for a while inside your head.
How did your mother find out? Think carefully about this and whether you left a trail of crumbs for her to follow, or whether she just found out. And think hard about her reatction. Also, as a father, I can tell you clearly that all parents hope the things they percieve in their kids as being "not desirable" are a phase. In so many ways I suspect you hope(d) it is a phase, too. I know I did, and hoped it woudl pass. In so many cases it does, and in so many others it seems not to have.
I'm glad people have been emailing you. 
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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I can relate to not feeling anything. Might be it's your way of protecting yourself against... whatever, actually. Lack of persisting emotion is a very strong armor, altho heavy to carry.
As for not knowing anyone remotely gay - Well, I live in "secular" Norway, and I don't know gay people outside the net either. Then again, i don't go to the "gay" bars/cafes either, but still, the stigmata is there.
Now to the more serious part - do you care an awaful lot about what your parents think about you being gay? (Practical thigns aside, you are 16 and depend on them, but nevermind that for now) If you don't, it becomes easier.
As for prince charming... well, it does happen, altho not always the way we want. Never say never.
Hang in there - after all, you are not alone.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13780
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Silfer wrote:
> Now to the more serious part - do you care an awaful lot about what your parents think about you being gay? (Practical thigns aside, you are 16 and depend on them, but nevermind that for now) If you don't, it becomes easier.
I had never even thought about that. I had never realised that one had the option not to care. That is an impressive revelation and I thank you for it.
I have lived my own life caring about it, you see.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Of course that is an option.
I never cared.....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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If it was because your parents were good and loving to you, I am happy for you. But why the... negative attitude in your post, Timmy? The sarcasm/whatever feeling I feel after reading it? I assure you, there is always a choice, for one, and two, no, I didn't make the choice. I simply do not care what my parents think, both in this subject and in certain others, and I see in hindsight many reasons for it. I'd rather not dive ther ein this thread, becuase it is Matty's, and my post was for him. And a practical, analytical attitude can sometimes be worth it when you cannot think clearly. Yes, I am cynical, and no, i did not want to offend you.
If you want to contiinue this discussion, make a new thread/contact me, info is at profile.
Matty: It was an attempt to help, nothign more. I hope you are not offended by it.
Light,
Silfer
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13780
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I do apologise. There was absolutely no sarcasm or negative thought intended.
I genuinely think this thread has value as it stands, not only for matty but for those of us who are still realisng how much further we have to go before we are whole.
My own parents were - odd. And I cared because theywere odd. and I cared about other people's thoughts about me, still care, because I am not yet ready to shake that off.
I see news like that as having value for others here. It may allow them to understand the real choices they have that I, for example, denied myself for so long.
Again I apologise. I did not mean to imply any criticism at all. It was genuine light dawning in a way I had not realised.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Timmy, I so agree. My parents were not odd, but rather nasty about it, and for those of us who have read my story before, I wasn't able to talk to or see my older step brother from when he was 17 until he died at 42... or I would have been ostracized from the entire family.
Like you, I cared what they thought. Please note cared.... for I no longer do. I realized that I was gay. I realized and came out of the closet and slammed that door so hard that it tore off the hinges and I could never go back in. (No, I am not a screaming out loud gay man... just not ever denying I am gay... ever again!!!). But that is my walk through life. No one else's.
We all walk our walk in life. Every one who has posted on this site, has posted because of some insight they have gained in their walk through life. That is the great part of our little corner in society here. We all contribute to each other's lives.
That said... Matty, I hope we can help you through all this. You are so special to us... and we love talking with you. Just come hang around with us once in a while, and we can all have another great gab session!!!!
Hugs,
BamBam 
Celebrate your life... embrace your love... Become intimate with your place in forever !!!
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Why should anyone be offended by rationalizing the option of not giving a damn what his (or any) parents think reguarding his (or anyones) sexuality.
After all I am fairly certain that no one pondered the merits and disadvantages of their being straight.
Ones sexual orientation is not a choice. It just is.... For all the good and all the bad..... It just is...
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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Timmy: *sheepeish grin* I should perhaps expect less hostility, especially here. But I have been met with very blunt responses summed up into "You are bad person for not caring" etc., so it's just defensive reaction. This post of yours definately lightened my day.
General: As caring goes, i care for the opinions of some people, but these people do not have a)Unfounded opinions and b)Even if they do, they don't try to shove it up your ass. My parents are quite the opposite. (Luckily/skillfully, I am not dependent on them in any way, so I also have the practical freedom of not caring, not just the intellectual one. And the fact that young people are so dependent on their parents, and that their parents abuse that dependency, makes me angry at times. For heaven's sake, don't they think about their responsibility?)
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13780
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You are wholly welcome. You opened my eyes to something I had never considered.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Guest
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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Matty,
I can tell by the passion in your posts that you are a very special young man. You have something very special to offer. I truly believe that there are select people in this world who can love more deeply, more purely, and more lastingly than all the others and I think that you are one of them. Your Prince Charming when he arrives will be one of the most fortunate men around.
I have been where you are. I lived in a very conservative era and was raised by a very conservative family who attended a very conservative church. I was alone and gay. I chose to live a heterosexual lifestyle when I reached adulthood because that was what was expected of me and I felt it would have cost me everything I held dear to do otherwise. There are times now when I wish I had chosen the other path but at this point in my life my wife and daughter are very important to me and I don't want to loose that. From what I have read on IOMFATS website Timmy has a very similar story to mine.
I guess what I am trying to tell you is this. Don't let any person or group steal your happiness. Take the advise given in a previous post. Go to College in another state and become who you are and want to be. Be true to youself so that when you get old like the rest of us you won't have to look back on your life and regret.
Remember Matty, you are a very special person.
John
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Hiya! Pounce! 
Re: lostconfusedandbroken 
Re: It's been a while, matty 