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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13780
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I have been posed a question, and the people who have posed it are willing and happy to see your answers to it. They recognise that the relationship they have is unusual in terms of age difference. The questions are being posed by the younger in the couple. Make no mistake, this is a couple.
First the scenario. The age of consent in the UK where they live is 16. This is full consent, nothing limited by parents' wishes nor anything else.
Our young friend is 16, and is certain that he is in the relationship without any form of coercion. In fact it was he who initiated the relationship. While one might argue that he may not know his own mind fully, I am sure that he, too, is aware of that. His partner is 32. Twice his age.
Immediately I can hear a sharp intake of breath. And, to be fair, anyone woudl have the self same sharp intake of breath. The age difference is not small, though next tyear the older will not be twice te younger's age. Oh yes, they are a gay couple, and happy in each other's company. This is not "just"(?) about sex.
So we have a happy, legal and unusually age differenced couple. Whetehr the realtionship remains a success of not is down to the two in the relationship. The question is really asked in the preamble, but it is this:
Both men are still in the closet. They want an open (I do not mean multi-partner I mean 'not hiding') relationship, with the ability to show affection and be a couple in all senses of the word with their social circles. How do they deal with the varied reactions their friends and family will have, solely because of the age difference?
In answering this it does no harm at all to show your own reaction to it. I simply ask that if you express disapproval you do it knowing that your words may hurt, and so to do it with empathy.
[Updated on: Fri, 22 July 2005 17:51]
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13780
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I have an example of a successful relationship that is precisely like that. I met the older of the two in this case, and he was 30 or so, and his boyfriend was 16. I have not yet met the younger, though he has been invited to my home. I was asked to advise the older.
I was cautious in the extreme.
My advice was that the older, if serious about the relationship, had to meet the younger's parents and to show them that his intentions were decent. And that he had to act in the same way that any heterosexual couple with that age difference would act: as a gentleman.
He took the advice, though found it quite a challenge. Their situation was slightly different because the younger was out at home, but still challenging.
My view was that he should simply show the parents that he was an acceptabel suitor. He succeeded. And they were, when I spoke to him last, still a couple. A few rocky times, a few times when each rebelled against th eother, but still a couple.
The generalism is that these relationships do not work. And it does take an exceptional couple to ensure that they do work.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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I shall answer this with first a question.....
Were ther both legal when the (so called) relationship began?
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13780
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Yes. Categorically yes.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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OK..... That being said...... Hpw long has this relationship been between them?
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13780
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That is the end of the information that I have. If they, either of the, care to post more then that is fine. But their friends find them as they are now. So let's take them as we find them, please.
It is somewhat challenging to see the words "so called" about the relationship. They declare it to be one, so I see no reason to challenge them on it. Though I am sure they understand your reaction in those two words.
It would be kind, though, to use empathy when answering in more detail. But they are prepared for brickbats, too.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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God Damn it...... my post was eaten by a monster!!!!!!!!!!1
OK...... Now first I want to justify my phrasiology reguarding "so called" relationships.
Far too many "relationships" tend to begin and end with a trip to the local gay bars mens room. Relationships are far too casual to hold as much meaning as the term implies it should.
A relationship is built on trust... Trust comes with familliarity...
A relationship needs both parties to come together to a meeting of the minds. Not only in just the mundant ritualistic forms practiced in the workings and maintainance of a mutual household but to also include all the fobiles and faults each person brings into the mix and also, bringing with all that, all the joys and sorrows of a combined life together.
Now...... All that being said..... To the meat of the queery... "How do we deal with the varied reactions that our friends and family will have?"
OOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooK..........
My best advice on this is just take them one at a time..... Your true friends will show their brightest colors as well as the family members that support you..... Of course the same rules apply to those that do not.
The choice now is whether or not you want to remain in proximity of the ones that don't.....
And always remember.... The world is a big place.... and there are friends yet to meet.
Also..... there is 16 years between Kevin and myself....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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First and most importantly - best wishes to them!
If they're both in the closet, I think I would probably not go looking for any big defining "coming out" thing - although I do understand that when one is first in love one wants to shout it from the rooftops! In general, coming out is easier if one is not partnered, (simply because if one is, others can focus any problems they may have with homosexuality onto the personality of the partner, which puts a strain on the relationship ...) but obviously, that is not an option here.
So I would suggest just doing what they feel comfortable with, in the way that the social circles they move in consider acceptable normal behaviour for couples. In my own circles, that's handholding, sitting leaning against each other, small casual gestures of intimacy, using "we" not "I" ... but avoiding anything that may make others feel they're being excluded (heavy snogging in company, for example). And, I think, probably best if the younger partner initiates any physical contacts in public, at least to start with.
Actually, I suspect most friends etc won't overtly raise the issue ... although that does depend a lot on the kind of friends and background. And if they do, perhaps it would be best just to say "we're together", without going into any kind of detail ... which is no concern of anyone else's anyway. If they want to draw conclusions, let them.
Parent(s) of the younger partner may be more difficult ... and everyone has such different relationships with parents that there can't really be any one way to deal with it.
Difficult to say more without knowing the circumstances ... but, in general, be convinced that it really isn't that unusual or worthy of comment, act that way, and many others will go with that and treat the couple accordingly. Again - best wishes.
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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On a side note...... As far as parents of the younger are concerned......
I would tread very very carefully......
Especially if there was any sort of dallience prior to his 16th Bday.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13780
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I think you make perfect sense here. There is scope for accusations of improper behaviour whether any has taken place or not. Such accusations would not be helpful to anyone involved, the more so if they are unfair.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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That is unless there is just reason for alarm.
If there is reason, well then it is best not to ring the bell.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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I do like what you have said about this relationship query... Surely, you and Kevin have the experience to tell this couple what life can be like.
May I interject my own view:
There are reasons why each person wants to come out. I had a very definite reason very early on, but after about a year those reasons were gone, and since then I simply live as I am. I do not tell others that I am gay. I do not flaunt my homosexuality. However, I absolutely refuse to be anyone other than who I am.
That said, I am fully aware that I may be bashed at some point in life. No matter what tho... Michael and i are fully a gay couple in public, private, at family functions and work functions. We do not flaunt our relationship, either. Nor do we allow anyone to cause us to have to hide. His boss and co workers know all about me and us... my boss and coworkers all know about him and us. We all have a great time, get along great, and work like hell to get ahead in life.
I guess it is more important to understand why you need to come out more than actually coming out (the action). My life shows I am gay without me having to flame and push myself on others. My life is very comfortable this way, and so far has been very palatable to others as well.
Hope this helps you guys decide what to do...
Hugs,
BamBam
Celebrate your life... embrace your love... Become intimate with your place in forever !!!
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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I agree totaly....
Living a comfortable lifestyle does not necessarily involve exhibiting gayness to the Nth degree.
I don't flaunt my sexuality although I also know how far I can kid along with certain of our aquaintances. Kevin on the other hand is a bit more gentile than me and is far more on the sensitive side. He likes to shop and I am just as happy to enjoy a frosty cold one with friends.
Coming out is different for sach person. There are no set rules other than to be careful. Being out for the vast majority of gays means telling ones family and then easing into the subject with close friends. As far as the periferal of aquaintences in your sphere of social interaction it really is a non issue. If it is brought up it should be by you... after all it is your personal business. And the level of information is also up to you.
I have learned over the years that being "gay" is just one facet in the spectrum of humanity. Some people will react adversly and if they do just exclude them from your circle of interaction. Most people however will treat the subject in more of a "matter of fact" way and will be comfortable with the gay issue as long as conversation and actions do not cause an upset.
In other words, Take your partner to the company picnic...... but dont sit under a tree and make out.
I hope this helps....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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