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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13783
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I don't suppose there is any scope for getting Deej and your friend to have an anon style chat?
And no, Like I have always said, you simply need a sweet, gentle, kind, erotic young gentleman to help you.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Jumping up and down, waving my hands, yelling, ME ME ME !!!!
I believe in Karma....what you give is what you get returned........
Affirmation........Savage Garden
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Unfortunately, he's not someone that I know well enough to set up a chat with.
If I explain a bit more, I know about his habits as a teenager because of an evening where he got a bit "tired and emotional" on my shoulder when we were both 18, towards the end of the 6th form. I guess he selected me as I was generally seen as being sympathetic to & knowing about those who are "sexually different" ... well, it was in 1973!
I didn't see him for some 25 years, and then a bunch of guys from my class at school started meeting up once or twice a year for a drink. This tends to lead to reminiscences ... and on one occasion we all started talking about losing our virginity, who we'd fancied at school, and so on. And whether we'd been scared, or excited, or what (and whether we'd experimented with members of our non-preferred sex). And this guy told us that he hadn't had waking orgasm until he got together with his wife, but had found the experience "habit-forming".
So I don't really feel that I could raise the subject with him: it isn't fair to bring up drunken revelations in the cold light of day. If I were to see him, I might feel able to do so in person, but the group doesn't meet up next til 7th Jan, and then June next year if he comes ... Yesterday was our summer meeting, and he was unable to attend at the last minute.
But we had 17 out of the 70 guys in my school year meeting up for drinks, and a game of cricket against the staff of the school - not bad 34 years after most left school (33 for me and others who did 3 years in the 6th).
And Deej, you don't need to find a wife. As long as you're in a place where you're open to meeting a person who you want to explore (and wants to explore you) in every way - mentally, emotionally, physically, erotically - without worrying about some theoretical destination (be it orgasm or marriage!). Enjoy the journey.
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Doctors suck.....
Every one of them......
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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Marc said,
>Doctors suck.....
>Every one of them......
Does that mean you'd never, ever consult a doctor on anything? Or would you still consult one as a last resort?
David
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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The last time I was in the presence of a doctor was when I awakened from an incident in NYC some 25 years ago.....
I threw a bed pan at him and ordered him not to touch me again......
I think the bed pan was empty... But I am not absolutly sure....
Before that I had not been with a doctor since I was 14 or so.....
I take care of myself..... I have even done minor surgery on myself and set broken bones for myself when the occasion needs it....
I do however consult a Native American Shaman, a Chineese Herbalist and a homeopathic healer.... I do these to concoct remedies when needed.....
The only consultation I can realisticly forsee reguarding a medical doctor would be to inquier as to his/her last meal.... nothing more....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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Marc said,
>I do however consult a Native American Shaman, a Chineese Herbalist and a homeopathic healer.... I do these to concoct remedies when needed.....
They are more effective than medicine rooted in science?
David
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Sorry, that's a rude thing to say, as, while I would have no idea whether their remedies are effective or not, you presumably have your reasons for not wanting to see a proper doctor.
However, the fact is that doctors are individuals and some are very poor at their jobs and some really care about their patients. To say that they all suck is ignoring the fact that, collectively, they have saved the lives of millions of people who otherwise would have died.
I, personally, would be more inclined to trust a medical doctor who works according to guidelines laid out in a scientific manner than to trust a homeopathic (faith) healer who does not.
David
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13783
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Homoeopathy may or may not have a scientific basis (and yes, I know the arguments intimately), but even if it is placebo effect (which is not faith healing) the fact is that something happens when a homoeopathic remedy is used. As long as there is an improvement in the condition I realy don't care what is at work.
It may even be the consultation process that does the work, and not the remedy. But it doesn't matter.
Being dismissive of something is fine, but dismiss it correctly.
I see it as unproven scientifically, but proven anecdotally.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Timmy said,
>Homoeopathy may or may not have a scientific basis [...]
>Being dismissive of something is fine, but dismiss it correctly.
There is no way that homeopathy can be proven scientifically, because homeopathy uses pills and medicines that have absolutely none of the active ingredient in them. In most homeopathic remedies, the ratio of ingredient to water is something like 10 to the 60 -- er, that's one small drop per 1000 cubed light years, according to my calculations. The probability of there being a single molecule of the "active ingredient" in any reasonable amount of solution is infinitessimal.
Hence there is no difference between faith healing (I believe I am going to get better) and homeopathy (I expect that this pill will make me better). Yes, the process is slightly different, and maybe the latter seems slightly more scientific to the layman, but both depend entirely on the placebo effect and nothing more. (Okay, that is not technically proven, but there is nothing to suggest anything else is at work.) As far as I'm concerned, they are the same remedy with slightly different parameters. I was perfectly aware of what I said, and I was not even meaning to be provocative. I simply do not see the difference.
>I see it as unproven scientifically, but proven anecdotally.
The placebo effect is proven scientifically.
David
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I'm with David on this one.
My life - quite literally - has been saved on more than one occasion by timely and competent medical attention from physicians (on one occasion following clinical death). Where I live the cost is comparatively cheap and the service prompt and excellent - and that includes family doctors, specialists and hospital services.
Twice in my life I have been persuaded to seek the attention of a homeopath and each time I found the attention to be both very expensive and entirely ineffective.
Just my experiences.
The paradox has often been noted that the United States, founded in secularism, is now the most religiose country in Christendom, while England, with an established church headed by its constitutional monarch, is among the least. (Richard Dawkins, 2006)
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Nevertheless......
I would shoot god in the eye before I trust one of those butchers......
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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why
Why are you wearing that stupid man suit?
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13783
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Faith Healing. Interesting. So, broadly, Jesus Christ's miracles of healing were placebo effect. I think wiser to allow them to be faith and allow placebo to be placebo.
I agree that the placebo effect is proven scientifically. You have taken me out of context with that I think.
Why is this so very important to you? Surely one should care that something works rather that seek to trample it under the foot of science? If I am ill and something helps me I truly do not care if there is a scientific basis or not. I care that my health improves. Don't you?
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Because all doctors are butchers....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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well that was vague and useless
Why are you wearing that stupid man suit?
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And all gay men are heartless bastards...
Apparently...
From a representative sample of one...
David
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Timmy said,
>Faith Healing. Interesting. So, broadly, Jesus Christ's miracles of healing were placebo effect. I think wiser to allow them to be faith and allow placebo to be placebo.
Jesus Christ's miracles of healing are fully documented? Scientifically tested?
Assuming he existed and at least some of the documented miracles happened, the only possible scientific explanation (without highly improbable alternatives, such that he had medical knowledge far exceeding everyone else of his time) is that they were achieved because those that were cured believed they were cured. Which is the same as homeopathy -- those that believe that they are receiving real medicine are cured.
>I agree that the placebo effect is proven scientifically. You have taken me out of context with that I think.
Yes and no. Yes in that you didn't say it wasn't. No in that homeopathy and faith healing are both examples of the placebo effect.
>Why is this so very important to you? Surely one should care that something works rather that seek to trample it under the foot of science? If I am ill and something helps me I truly do not care if there is a scientific basis or not. I care that my health improves. Don't you?
Why is it so very important that I care? I care because I see the world in black and white -- at least in some ways. I like the feeling that everything is explainable, even if I don't know the answer. Sticking to science ensures that.
If you find that homeopathy helps you, great. I don't mind. I would draw your attention to the fact that the only reason we are having this conversation again is that you were the one who brought it up -- claiming that faith healing is not the same as homeopathy. Essentially, as far as I'm concerned, they are. If you'd rather think they're not, then fine. But I don't think you're going to be able to change my mind. I hope that doesn't sound like pig-headedness to you, because it's not meant to be.
David
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Note that I don't think you, Marc, are a heartless bastard, as I understand you have reasons for saying that. But it doesn't stop it from being stupid logic.
My parents are doctors, incidentally, so I am inclined to take that remark personally.
David
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Marc, my doctors are some of the best guys you will ever meet. I dont know why the difference, but they keep me alive. fifteen, 20 years ago I wouldnt have had much of a chance. I would have been taking blood transfusions every week just to try and stay alive. Now I just give myself a shot of EPO and I start making my own, no fuss no muss. I also cant store iron and can hardly absorb it. five years ago, I would have been hard put to stay alive. Some super smart dude in Europe figured out how to encapsil iron and now I can get it by IV. Again, no fuss no muss. I had to have my gall bladder out, if my doctor is a butcher I want him working on me every time. You cant find a scare. They make 3 little holes then turn the gall bladder to jello and suck it out. What I thought was amazing, they glued the cuts and there were no scares or stitch marks.
I know why you dislike Doctors and believe me I would to if I had been thru that. My doctors, butchers or not, keep me alive. There are some bad doctors out there. Some have no bedside mannors, some got their medical liscense from Granada. so far the ones I have had, have been top notch.
I believe in Karma....what you give is what you get returned........
Affirmation........Savage Garden
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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If your parents are indeed doctors.... yay for you... yay for them....
I however hold to my opinion of them as a profession....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Great for you.....
but don't think that changes my opinion of them.....
If I had to make the decision to die or visit one .......
Well you do the math......
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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no....... it was descriptive and to the point....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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why dont you keep your opinions to yourself if your only going to be obstinate and not attempt to validate your statements in any form.
it would do the rest of us quite the favor.
Why are you wearing that stupid man suit?
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I would undoubtedly have died at age three without an emergency operation. I would undoubtedly be in considerably more pain (and much less mobile) than I am now, without a lot of informed and sympathetic help from medical staff - consultants, nurses, and physios.
On the other hand ...
the bastard that circumcised me as an infant. The dullard who fucked up a simple set of stitches when I damaged my knee aged nine - leaving me with a permanent weakness and scar. The incompetent nurse who took ELEVEN attempts to draw 10cc of blood when I was 12 - and who made me so needle-phobic that I fainted every time I saw a syringe until I was in my late 40s (thank God for a sympathetic dentist for getting me over that one)
Like any profession, medicine has both competent & dedicated members and callous incompetents. It may have a fairly high proportion of the latter: the power of the medical mystique seems to attracted those who need to be in a "position of power" in a structured setting (as teaching used to).
Also like any profession, one can significantly reduce the risks of getting a poor practictioner by being an informed consumer, finding out as much as one can, and seeking recommendations from those one trusts.
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
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cossie
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On fire! |
Location: Exiled in North East Engl...
Registered: July 2003
Messages: 1699
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I've had a glandular malfunction since I was in my early teens; it can cause serious problems from time to time. It's a 'syndrome', which basically means that the medical profession acknowledges that the condition exists but the cause is uncertain. Treatment when I was young was pretty awful, but since my early thirties it has been excellent. I have a regular check up with my GP, and successive GPs have kept me fully up to date with research in the field; not one of them has been in the least 'superior' in his attitude.
At 23, I hsd a cist on my lung which burst. The collapsed lung would not re-inflate with conventional treatment, and I was shipped to the other side of the country for specialist surgery. I had a long stay in hospital, and two operations. Throughout this time the medical staff were friendly and supportive, and I was kept fully informed about everything but the probability of survival - apparently it was originally assessed at 3 to 1 against, so I'm glad I wasn't told until afterwards!
I've had a catalogue of medical misfortunes over the years, and I currently swallow an assortment of five drugs each day - one of which is an amphetamine: yippee! - but it's a small price to pay for leading a normal life. I owe a great deal to the medical profession, and whilst I agree with NW's sentiments abour standards a few decades ago, I think that the overall quality of service has increased dramatically since then.
Responding to Marc, I acknowledge that you have had bad experiences, but you are not lacking in intelligence and you must therefore be aware - however paranoid you may be about avoiding contact with the profession yourself - that though there may be bad doctors, there are also doctors and surgeons who are truly excellent in their respective fields. To describe the whole profession as butchers is infantile. To respond to Deeej's post with the remark 'Yay for you ... yay for them' is childishly and appallingly rude. Your posts reveal more about you than about the medical profession. I can only endorse Andy's view: if you have nothing constructive to say, say nothing.
For a' that an' a' that,
It's comin' yet for a' that,
That man tae man, the worrld o'er
Shall brithers be, for a' that.
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pimple
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Likes it here |
Location: USA
Registered: March 2006
Messages: 375
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I should be all over this topic, health care (and this board) has been the sum total of my existence for the last 4 months, I posted my first message here on the day I got out of the hospital. I tried to talk about it in a round about way, but there were no takers. At the time that pissed me off, now I'm sorta grateful.
Now that two thirds of the time they allotted me has passed, I'm not angry anymore, but I'm hardly resigned either. What will be will be. If it is possible, I take pleasure in the knowledge that I'll never have to drive in another ice storm, and that is balanced with the thought that daffodils are only a memory now.
I want to thank everyone for their patience; there were days when I thought I'd go crazy, and that transferred into what I said here. This was a noble experiment, and it turns out that I'm better in black and white than in color.
I am leaving you guys to it, sorry for the ripples I made in your still waters.
Good by
Simon
Joy Peace and Tranquility
Joyceility
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There is a difference between subjective opinion and objective evaluation, is there not?
The paradox has often been noted that the United States, founded in secularism, is now the most religiose country in Christendom, while England, with an established church headed by its constitutional monarch, is among the least. (Richard Dawkins, 2006)
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Yes..... I am sure....... as always ....... you are right......
Nevertheless....... I would not allow one of those butchers touch me.....
Like it or not..... just as you are entitled to your opinion I am entitled to my opinion.....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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OK..... you want validation.... here goes.....
when i was 14 i was dragged to a hospital, strapped to a bed and given drugs.... every few days i was taken to a room and strapped to a table and electrodes were attached and without furthur adoo the "doctors" threw the switch....
it was not because i was ill in some way....
because i was gay....
so........... If you want doctors..... take my share.....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13783
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We always work on a simple concept here. What people wish to say they say. If a gentle question does not do the trick we tend to assume that the matter is private. And that has worked for you, well by the sound of it.
Ripples are good, tsunami are not. You're a nice ripple to have around, though you can also be cantankerous. You haven't yet made tsunami status.
Tell us more if you wish, stay private if you don't. What matters is not us, but you.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Marc, this is very unfair. You cannot extrapolate your personal experiences (which sound truly awful) and apply them to the whole medical profession. Never mind.
The paradox has often been noted that the United States, founded in secularism, is now the most religiose country in Christendom, while England, with an established church headed by its constitutional monarch, is among the least. (Richard Dawkins, 2006)
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13783
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I do not wish to even think of trivialising the gross hurt that you suffered.
I would simply ask you to separate the imbecility and cruelty of the people who mistreated you and worked against you "for your own good" from a competent person with your genuine interests at heart who works with you with your agreement and informed permission to seek a solution to a disorder.
There are appalling people in all professions. There is thus every reason to find out about a practitioner before employing them, even to take up references. And also please note that you employ them, they do not treat you.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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I thought about this long and hard.....
You are indeed right..... This is very unfair.....
But it is my reality..... I used to throw up just if I perchance happen to drive by a hospital or medical building..... Now I just break out in a cold sweat and begin to hyperventilate.....
Do I need to see a doctor..... Yes..... Absolutly..... I had to stop working today due to throbing chest pain..... Will I go to an emergencr room????? Nope, I just can not do it.....
Is it fair..... Not a bit.....
But it is my reality.....
That being said, I want you and others here to know that I am not trying to be negative, nor am I belittling anyones choices to seek medical treatment..... I am just trying my best to live in a world that has parts in it that I just do not trust..... Maybe someday I will overcome this..... Most likely not..... All I can do is try to get through each day as they come.....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13783
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I want to remind you of something.
A few years ago you conquered this long enough to have some tests in hospital. You did not find it a pleasant experience, but I recall at the time you found it a neutral one.
We worked together on that. You found a therapist who could help with anxiety, and you conquered it. I'd like to suggest that you take that road again.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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I recall allowing some blood to be drawn but I was in my office at the time....
That therapist is no longer in the area....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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Simon,
I have enjoyed reading your posts and I always appreciate your viewpoint, even if I don't necessarily agree with it.
If you wish to post anything further I am sure that people will be sympathetic. If you wish to leave now, please feel free, and good luck.
David
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Simon, we didnt always agree and we fussed and fought, but never at anytime did I wish you ill. My thoughts go with you and my best wishes. Just remember, when someone thinks about you and smiles, thats all anyone can ever ask for.
I believe in Karma....what you give is what you get returned........
Affirmation........Savage Garden
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cossie
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On fire! |
Location: Exiled in North East Engl...
Registered: July 2003
Messages: 1699
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Only you know whether it is more difficult to keep posting or to leave; whatever you decide, I wish you well. You seem to be a brave man.
I ruefully take note of your comment that when you first started posting you'd have liked to talk about your situation, but there were no takers for the hints you gave. You say that, looking back, you're grateful, and I'm happy to hear that. I'm sorry if I or any of our group seemed in any way uncaring - we're not, it's just our custom to wait for each individual to reveal whatever he (or she) wants to reveal about personal circumstances.
As Brian says, we'll smile when we think of you.
For a' that an' a' that,
It's comin' yet for a' that,
That man tae man, the worrld o'er
Shall brithers be, for a' that.
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