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I follow the blog of a young American boy, aged I would guess 15 perhaps 16. He is genuinely agnostic as to whether he gay or bi, hetero even, but consciously or subconsciously he makes it clear where his interests lie - gay.
In yesterday's blog he wrote:
>…First off I am a naturist at heart. Going around without clothes on in appropriate places is still legal in the USA, and I fully support that right.
>…I love boy films and boy naturist films. Do I have any illegal films or photos - absolutely not! The illegal stuff; i.e.; sex, etc, does not appeal to me for life style or entertainment. A beautiful face, body do. Mostly, I love true talent in acting!!!<
His thesis is that he is not sexually aroused by what he sees and I find it difficult to understand his point of view. Therefore I sought your opinions.
Btw this boy is highly intelligent and knows his own mind. He had an appalling upbringing where he was physically abused by his brutal father and although this is all in the past the mental and emotional scars are still there.
I'd still be interested in your reactions. If you are interested in his blog, PM me for the site address.
Hugs
Nigel
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
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Nigel, Is this boys name Mouse?
I believe in Karma....what you give is what you get returned........
Affirmation........Savage Garden
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Yes, Brian.
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
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Hmm. Well, I don't know the site, but
>Do I have any illegal films or photos - absolutely not! The illegal stuff; i.e.; sex, etc, does not appeal to me for life style or entertainment. A beautiful face, body do. Mostly, I love true talent in acting!!!
sounds to me very much like a disclaimer. Since he calls it illegal, presumably he is talking about under-age pornography: innocent naturism is not technically illegal within context (though it might be in some circumstances these days). It would be silly of him to admit to doing anything, even on the internet, that could jeopardise his position.
That said, I did not mention in my response to your other post on this subject my own position regarding sexual attractions, because it did not seem relevant at the time. I've mentioned it before on this board (at least a couple of times): while I find some people very attractive, there is virtually no-one (in fact, I might go so far as to say no-one at all) with whom I would like to have sex. That being the case, if you were being pedantic you could not call my attraction a sexual attraction, even though I have no doubt it is related to my sexuality. This stems from a psychosomatic (or perhaps purely somatic) issue that I've had for some years. While I expect I will have sex sooner or later, this will almost certainly (at first, at least) be purely out of curiosity rather than any physical desire to have sex. It is possible that this boy has symptoms along the same lines, especially if he has been abused in the past. Hence while his attraction would not be entirely asexual (which, from your posts, you seem to assume he is saying -- from the quotation alone I do not think you can conclude that) it is not sexually motivated either.
If it is sexually motivated, and he's just being a little economical with the truth for reasons of personal safety -- well, provided he does nothing illegal it does not matter what he thinks. We don't need to know.
>I love boy films and boy naturist films. [...] Mostly, I love true talent in acting!!!
I do not think that anyone watches naturist films for the acting. The best child/teenager/young adult acting is in mainstream cinema. That's the only comment I have difficulty believing.
David
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Deeej, perhaps I ought to have added the quotation:
>The illegal stuff; i.e.; sex, etc, does not appeal to me for life style or entertainment. A beautiful face, body do. Mostly, I love true talent in acting!!!<
I'm trying to keep my own thoughts out of these two threads because I want to know what others think independently.
Hugs
N
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
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I know who your talking about. I havent been to his sight in some time. I believe he had a bf named Dave, he is about 1 year older than me, so he is between 16 and 17. I know at one time he said he couldnt get sexually aroused unless he was spanked. Glad to know he is still around and coping, what his father did was horrendous. By the way guys I understand his dad is hiding out in europe somewheere.
I believe in Karma....what you give is what you get returned........
Affirmation........Savage Garden
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Well -- I think the two issues are separate.
A beautiful woman, a beautiful piece of sculpture, an excellent photograph -- these can be wonderful and amazing to look at, but completely asexual (unless you are determined to find something sexual about them).
I do not think, however, that this is the same thing. If this boy is gay, or probably gay, and watches boy-related and naturist films specifically, I would be inclined to believe that there is a sexual element to this -- or at least, an element of attraction, sexual or otherwise. That is quite a different thing. I do not see any reason to doubt his word that he would not look at anything illegal -- quite apart from the illegality and the danger of so doing, such material is exploitative and morally repugnant.
I have written all this without looking at the site. I will do so at some point.
David
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Okay, now I've looked at the site.
www. mouseboys. net/
There is something oddly inconsistent about it. Written by a mid-teenager in a childish style as a personal and self-help site, exhorting people who might abuse children to get help, but also run as a business selling DVDs and photos, complete with PO box, catering to adults interested in gay boy-related (early teenage/pre-teen) material (including people who identify as "boy lovers")?
This does not sound to me like the work of a teenager. I don't deny that it could be run by one -- there is no technical reason it could not -- but running a business of that sort would require the cooperation or at least the knowledge of an adult, and I don't know of many responsible adults who would agree to letting someone do that. It would be my guess that Mouse is somewhat older than he is letting on.
He is also evidently familiar with borderline-illegal material and covering up after himself.
Having seen the context, I would be inclined to think that Mouse is deluding himself if he does not see his attraction to the beauty of boys as originating in his own sexuality. (That does necessarily mean that it is overtly sexual.)
I would steer well clear. If anyone could give me some evidence that he is who he says he is, it might mitigate the circumstances somewhat. Even so, I would have thought it very naive of him to market himself in such a manner.
David
[edited to delink the hyperlink - timmy]
[Updated on: Tue, 26 September 2006 07:17] by Moderator |
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He says he is looking forward to college, but that he has postponed it for a year. That would make him about 18. That makes a little more sense, though I am sure he would have needed the cooperation of someone else to set it up and run it, unless his mother is in on it (and how many mothers would condone a business like that?).
Even so, he has chosen one of the most dangerous sidelines I can imagine. Whether or not the material he sells is technically legal or illegal, he's liable to attract the attention of the police.
David
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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I've seen these pictures before....
I've see the film list....
Some time ago there was a site exhibiting boys in speedos most were candid but alot were seductively posed..... The site sold the same movies with little changing in the way they are presented here.....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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cossie
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On fire! |
Location: Exiled in North East Engl...
Registered: July 2003
Messages: 1699
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... though not necessarily with his conclusion.
The blog section is not too inconsistent with what might be expected from someone of the age and background described. It's fairly naive and in some ways pretty amateurish, but there are flashes of insight and intelligence which are not wholly out of line with the Stanford score he claims for himself. On the other hand, I can't shake off the feeling that there is something not quite 'right' about the blog.
Going back to Nigel's original question, I don't think that there can be any serious argument that this is not a gay site and, what's more, a site aimed at so-called 'boylovers'. If Mouse is who he says he is, the clear implication is that he is gay and attracted to young boys.
I agree that the section concerned with the sale of DVDs is, to say the least, incongruous. I also agree with Marc that there is at least one other site - I suspect there may be more than one - selling the same material, offered for sale in a near-identical, if not absolutely identical way. I agree with Deeej that there's an experienced adult hand involved in at least part of the site; it's less clear whether this suggests that 'Mouse' is older than he pretends to be, or whether he is being manipulated by someone else. This being the internet, the 'someone else' need have no direct real-world connection with 'Mouse'; I don't know and there aren't enough clues to justify a guess.
So far as I am aware, most - and probably all - the pictures are legal in the US, and quite possibly in the even-more draconian UK. To my mind, this demonstrates the illogical and inconsistent stance taken by the groups which see paedophiles around every corner. It's blindingly obvious that the pictures are intended to sexually arouse those who are attracted to young boys - so blindingly obvious that the models themselves must know that their role is to exude sexuality, which some of them certainly do with panache. These kids are 'used' just as much as some of the kids who are photographed nude. In terms of psychological damage, what matters is not the amount of clothing but the degree of coercion, and until the do-gooders recognise that, kids will potentially suffer just as much psychological damage by being coerced to pose almost nude as they would if they posed nude. I'm not looking for moral high ground - merely stating what to me is an obvious fact - a child or young person suffers much more damage from being forced to do something with sexual overtones which they do not want to do, than does a child or young person who is happy to do it, even if 'it' is illegal. My point is simply that the degree damage to the child or young person should be the paramount consideration, not the moral outrage of the politically correct establishment.
For a' that an' a' that,
It's comin' yet for a' that,
That man tae man, the worrld o'er
Shall brithers be, for a' that.
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Now, with taking a little more time to look at this site and following some of the links it provides I am absolutly convinced this is a boylover site.......
Basicaly because the links lead me to a plethora of boy lover sites.
Now this may or may not be legal.... That is not for me to decide....
But I have to say that this is NOT the work of an amateur..... There are far too many sophisticated hooks suggesting purchasing one product or another..... ranging from photo by the month sites to videos to stories.
Childs play this is not.....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
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It is a highly professional site, though well within the capabilities of an 18 year old. Never underestimate the ability a young person has. Even so I doubt its provenance.
I am concerned, not about its legality, since the images are clothed and legal, certainly in the UK, nor about any sexuality, since the pics just look like any kid either snipped from a movie and acting, or posing for the camera, or snapped unawares.
I am concerned about the picture at the foot of at least gallery 1. "Got a pic to share? eMail mouse".
I see something different here. I'm not sure I see something in the global scheme of things that is bad, but I see it as, well, not entrapment exactly, but as a mousetrap. "Hey Mouse, this one shows a little more flesh".
I dislike things like this that encourage people to send pictures in the same way that I dislike those who prey on kids. In the same way that "Operation Ore" was heavily flawed by the invented evidence of a Texan detective, an operation such as this might be could also be flawed. And that includes the pictures for sale.
I've seen boylover sites and this feels like "a clean one". And that makes me very suspicious about its real motivation. And so far every "hurt and abused little boy" site I've seen has vanished in odd circumstances and the kid has been shown to be no kid at all.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Cossie said,
>I'm not looking for moral high ground - merely stating what to me is an obvious fact - a child or young person suffers much more damage from being forced to do something with sexual overtones which they do not want to do, than does a child or young person who is happy to do it, even if 'it' is illegal.
Yes and no. The 'damage' does not come only from the event itself, but from the way that other people react to it. In the first case, a photographer photographing a clothed child may well be exploitative (and sometimes the motivations are, as you say, very obvious), but on the whole the pictures will attract a great deal less attention than if they were technically illegal. Afterwards, the child may well still see himself as having been exploited, but at least he has the compensation that he was not physically or illegally abused. I think the man on the street, social services and so on -- the people who are driving most of the hysteria on the subject -- would see a distinction there: in most cases it is probably great enough that the child will not have the stigma of being a victim for the rest of his life.
On the other hand, a willing participant in under-age sexual activity may discover afterwards that he is much villified for what he has done; branded by all with the stigma of "abused child", something he may never be able to get rid of (even if he does not see it as true); and reminded every day how appalling this material is and how miserable he should be for being part of it. There is the potential for a great deal of damage there.
David
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
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The challenge is to disengage the child speedily from an abusive situation as a matter of priority and at the same time not losing sight of the wholly valid concerns you raise. A part of the problem is the media glare than can surround such cases and the prurient interest in what went on.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Deeej wrote:
> On the other hand, a willing participant in under-age sexual activity may discover afterwards that he is much villified for what he has done; branded by all with the stigma of "abused child", something he may never be able to get rid of (even if he does not see it as true); and reminded every day how appalling this material is and how miserable he should be for being part of it. There is the potential for a great deal of damage there.
>
Deeej, I very much agree with you on this one. Some here may know about the case of Justin Berry, who started off of his own volition doing online porn on a home webcam as a 13-yr old, and ended up getting in way over his head (prostitution, drugs, being pimped, etc), befoe finally starting to sort himself out at 18.
The first NYT report on Justin is unfortunately now archived, so is only available to subscribers on-line (there's an abstract on http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F30617FC3C540C7A8DDDAB0994DD404482 ) - if anyone is seriously interested in seeing just how far and how deep a kid can get, and how easily, I recommend checking out the article. A local library should be able to get a copy.
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
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It may not be exactly the same one, but there is an article on Justin Berry at the New York Times web site at:
http://tinyurl.com/8fw42
David
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Thanks, David - that's the article I was thinking of. Plus the links to the video interviews with Justin. I really appreciate having the chance to re-read it: it made a very powerful impression on me, and I had the original story bookmarked.
In some ways, it makes me glad to be the age I am - I'm thankful that I grew up in a time without the web, and that my own experiences of getting involved with an older-and-abusive guy were limited to a single someone I met in real life. Otherwise - given that I was pretty much off the rails with sex n' drugs (and a bit of rock n' roll) throughout my teens - I think I could very easily have ended up in a similar situation.
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
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It is easy to see what was in his mind "I take my shirt off for nothing at the pool, so why not for money?" After all, how easy was that $50 to make? And he was safe, if he had chosen to stay safe.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Is one responsible (legally or morally) at 18 (when one 'comes of age') for the decisions one made at 13 and 14?
David
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
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That depends on what those decisions are.
Decide to kill someone and carry it out at 13, and, depending upon the legal system, you are responsible whenever you are caught.
It follows that a moral responsibility should be treated similarly.
Eighteen is not a magic age, it just happens to be a common age of majority.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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Legally, maybe not, but morally, I think so. 13, 14.. most kids in today's society know what they are doing, enough.
I'm disturbed by that story, not just because of the "paedophiles" ("ephebophiles" might be more the right word?). But how Justin so readily sold them out, with likely no reprocussions on his side. He was ALWAYS in control, he NEVER had to feel threatened, coerced or scared. He could always have said no, but he didn't. Because he didn't want to. He enjoyed the power, the fame and the money. He still enjoys the power, the fame and the money. But at 19 he probably would have been finding a lot less customers (why pay for what you can get more easily, legally?). I don't know what to think, because to me, looking at this story, I definitely don't see Justin as any kind of hero. Convictions won't stop this. It will just bury further and further underground, as it always has.
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Legal? Perhaps, perhaps not....
What I do know is that the site leads into a warren of boy lover sites both soft thus free and many of the hard variety thus for pay....
There are agencies that ferret out these sites and persue them with a vengence....
One such agency is now aware of this "mouse"..... Now lets see who roars.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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Saben said,
>Convictions won't stop this. It will just bury further and further underground, as it always has.
Convictions of whom?
Berry has immunity against it. One must assume that those people who became involved (especially adults) knew what they were doing was illegal. That being the case, I don't see any reason why they should not be prosecuted.
I don't think Berry is any kind of hero, either (does anyone?). I don't see any evidence that he did not know exactly what he was doing: I agree with you that he seems to have managed to turn the tables at the point at which his business would have been starting to dry up, or perhaps because he could see that the whole business was liable to collapse at any moment, bringing him down with it. Whatever the reason, he seems to have got off rather lightly -- he is now famous (albeit in a sordid fashion) and has doubtless made a lot of money out of it.
It may well be that he got in with the wrong people, but on the internet it is difficult to do that by accident (whatever the media would have you believe): you would have to want to become involved in this way. If I had been involved in this sort of thing at the age of 13 or 14 (technically, I could have done; I suppose the technology might not quite have existed on a mass scale at that point), I would expect to be paying for the consequences now. I can think of virtually no situations in which this would not be the case. Portraying teenagers of 13 and 14 as impressionable children is not helpful, because many (most?) are not.
David
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Maybe I ought to drop that final "(most?)". Most people are stupid, but the same goes for adults just as much as children. I was probably lucky to have gone to a school with some of the brightest people in the country, so I have a general perception of teenagers as intelligent (and generally mature).
Justin Berry strikes me as one of the bright ones.
David
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I agree that Berry is no kind of hero, and that his alleged conversion to the side of the law enforcement agencies seems opportune if not opportunistic.
But I am interested in the way that it doesn't seem there was really a conscious decision to get involved in the wholesale kiddie-porn industry, but that it was a gradual and inexorable decline into it. And this, I think, is one of the areas of especial culpability of the adults involved - abusers are often skilled in making each small step seem insignificant.
Yes, I'm sure that Berry knew what he was doing - even at the start - was "wrong". But I'm not at all sure that he had any appreciation of degrees of wrongness, or degrees of danger. Much like the kid who has been told all drugs are evil, has a small drink of alcohol without ill effect, and immediately decides that all drug warnings are obvious bollocks and tries all drugs up to and including heroin.
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
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If a poor unloved child bonds with someone, the child will pretty well do as the adult wants because he loves and trust him. I dont care if they look like they are having the best time of their lives, the boy is humiliated. Especially when he finds out that those pics are being posted on the internet and swapped for others. The harm is betrying the boys trust and the hurt and humiliation the boy must feel.
I believe in Karma....what you give is what you get returned........
Affirmation........Savage Garden
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NW said,
>But I am interested in the way that it doesn't seem there was really a conscious decision to get involved in the wholesale kiddie-porn industry, but that it was a gradual and inexorable decline into it. And this, I think, is one of the areas of especial culpability of the adults involved - abusers are often skilled in making each small step seem insignificant.
Could the same not be said of a slightly naive young adult? I appreciate that the situation could not be precisely equivalent as an adult could perform similar sex acts without being in the slightest bit illegal. But certainly it would be possible to get into an industry of that type -- one that seems legal on the surface, perhaps -- and very quickly find oneself encountering more and more borderline material, under-age models, etc. In such a case, the legal culpability of the adult is absolute yet he may well have been manipulated into it; on the other hand you may well find an intelligent 14 year-old who knew exactly what he was getting into.
It is sometimes impossible to tell, and the law is next to useless in coming to a moral conclusion. I suppose for the purposes of the law there have to be some specific cut-off points: an age of consent and an age at which one can produce erotic material. I do not think, however, that these have much to do with an age of culpability.
I would be inclined to believe that there is always a point at which one can say, "Enough is enough," even if one does not take it. If Berry was seriously concerned at the time he could have ducked out. (If this was not the case -- in other words, he was being genuinely blackmailed -- then I will reserve judgement. I am unconvinced this was the case.) That he did not -- until the end -- sounds to me like he did not have too many qualms about it.
I agree that the really dangerous people here are those adults who should have known (much) better, and not Berry himself. Even so, I would not excuse his behaviour.
David
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I cant say for sure, but if the pic on the home page is supposed to be mouse, then there is a problem. I first went to that site when I was about 14, he had pics posted of himslef. the boy on the home page and the pics I saw are not the same boy. Oh well. also, I have taken the Stanford-Benet test and the Stanford-Roush test. If he scored that high he would have gotten a govenment scholorship. I see no mention of that. I thought there was something fishy about the site back then and Im even more suspicious now.
I believe in Karma....what you give is what you get returned........
Affirmation........Savage Garden
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Absolutely right, Brian. I do not think anyone is denying that.
The Justin Berry case is interesting because Justin Berry produced the material and posted it himself, in the full knowledge that it was illegal and that it was being passed around on the internet. So he was presumably guilty of exploiting himself.
David
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I agree that he is responsible for his own humiliation, but I think that is rare. These people go to the Check republic find some kids who are dirt poor and offer them a bit of money to pose and do things. These people want to call themselves boy lovers, but they are not. They care nothing for the boy or boys only for their own satisfaction.
I believe in Karma....what you give is what you get returned........
Affirmation........Savage Garden
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Hi Brian,
>I cant say for sure, but if the pic on the home page is supposed to be mouse, then there is a problem. I first went to that site when I was about 14, he had pics posted of himslef. the boy on the home page and the pics I saw are not the same boy.
I doubt it is. I am fairly sure there was a different picture yesterday. No-one has so many pictures of himself at a younger age that he can change them every day.
>Oh well. also, I have taken the Stanford-Benet test and the Stanford-Roush test. If he scored that high he would have gotten a govenment scholorship.
I would wonder why on earth someone would post their IQ score on their web site in the first place. IQ is pretty much meaningless as a descriptor.
Oh, and I've never posted about my scholarship to Winchester on my web site. I don't even put it on my CV. For most things, it's irrelevant. Some people would see it as elitist.
David
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Whoops -- I've just noticed that I did put that I won a scholarship to Winchester on my web site! I honestly do not remember writing that. But then I practically never read my web site.
It is certainly true that I do not put it on my CV, however. You can see a version of my CV on my web site.
David
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And that post is a demonstration of the perils of not proofreading! Web site... web site... web site.
David
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You are absolutely right. It is even worse when they claim that the child should be grateful for the attention: their motives are in fact entirely selfish.
There are a lot of perfectly legal photographs of Eastern European children and teenagers on the internet; one has the terrible feeling that a very sizeable percentage were in fact taken by those sorts of people.
David
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Getting into the porn industry is nothing like jumping into a pool if ice water.......
It is more like allowing a warm bath to chill in due course.......
The fact is, when a person gets involved it is done in small steps, each a little further down the ladder than the one before......
It lessens the shock of seeing one's self on the silver screen in the altogether with no recourse but to look for a window to jump out of all the while hoping it is on the 20th floor.....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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I'll have to take your word for it.
But there is a distinction between -- for example -- working in the ordinary film industry and working in the pornographic film industry. You couldn't work as an actor in above-board cinema and suddenly find that things have "warmed up" and you are now working in pornography. The major step is acknowledging that it's not entirely out of bounds, and I'd contend that it's a pretty big one. As a crew member, I would not ever consider the idea, and yet a crew member is a hundred times more invisible than an actor.
David
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Deeej wrote:
> I'll have to take your word for it.
>
> But there is a distinction between -- for example -- working in the ordinary film industry and working in the pornographic film industry. You couldn't work as an actor in above-board cinema and suddenly find that things have "warmed up" and you are now working in pornography. The major step is acknowledging that it's not entirely out of bounds, and I'd contend that it's a pretty big one. As a crew member, I would not ever consider the idea, and yet a crew member is a hundred times more invisible than an actor.
>
> David
Why couldn't a legitimate actor delve into erotic film?
Is this a hard and fast rule or just your prediction?
After all, work is work..... and you have to eat.....
A crew member....... I thought you were the director.....
Oh well.....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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I guess your right about the scholorshop thing. With my status in my family and the way my mom is, its the one single thing I am most proud of, but I can see where it wouldnt be important to someone else. It just struck me as odd that he would mention his test score and not mention gettin gthe scholorship.
I believe in Karma....what you give is what you get returned........
Affirmation........Savage Garden
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Some guys are proud of their trohies and awards, Im not into that, but I am proud of the scholorship and the test scores. There is nothing wrong in posting your scholorship, it is something to be proud of. Us non jock guys have to have something.
I believe in Karma....what you give is what you get returned........
Affirmation........Savage Garden
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