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cossie
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On fire! |
Location: Exiled in North East Engl...
Registered: July 2003
Messages: 1699
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... I was responding to this post:
Jack wrote:
"Just so that it is crystal clear, young children need to know why his friend has two dads, or two mums."
You replied -
"Why do they need to know this?
Does a pair of same gender carers mean the carers are gay?"
My point was simply that, in the nature of things, kids will ask the question, and if parents and teachers have ignored the issue, the kid with two dads or mums is likely to be hurt.
For a' that an' a' that,
It's comin' yet for a' that,
That man tae man, the worrld o'er
Shall brithers be, for a' that.
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cossie
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On fire! |
Location: Exiled in North East Engl...
Registered: July 2003
Messages: 1699
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I accept all that you say - I simply responded to the suggestion that 'gay' wasn't a noun.
Personally, I take a rather fatalistic approach - if the word is used in that way, I'll accept it and use it to make fun of myself. That usually proves to be a pretty disarming technique!
For a' that an' a' that,
It's comin' yet for a' that,
That man tae man, the worrld o'er
Shall brithers be, for a' that.
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cossie
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On fire! |
Location: Exiled in North East Engl...
Registered: July 2003
Messages: 1699
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... but being a UK farm boy who found a career in the big, bad city I realise that a lot of guys don't find it quite so easy to cope with the way they feel.
Btw, what's the origin of 'Eldon'? The original 'Eldon' is a village not far from where I live, and the first Earl of Eldon became Lord Chancellor
(that is, the principal Judge) of England - and so acquired his title - despite the fact that he turned up outside the house of his girlfriend Bessie Surtees, with a ladder, allowing her to escape from a first-floor (USA: second-floor) window of her house on Newcastle Quayside and to elope with the future Earl. Apparently, her parents didn't think he was good enough for her!
For a' that an' a' that,
It's comin' yet for a' that,
That man tae man, the worrld o'er
Shall brithers be, for a' that.
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Hullo,
Why does it bother you that we discuss things at length?
Seldom does a conversation start with one person saying one thing and the second person responding with one other and then thats the end of it.
I am certain that when your mom found your box of raincoats in your drawer the conversation was talked to death....
I find it funny that she took them though. I wonder what she was thinking? Take away the raincoat and you'll just not go out and get wet?
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13818
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Agreed. Children ask and require answers, and correct answers at that. They will not be fobbed off with rubbish.
But the answer must be graduated, without being patronising, with regard to the age and intellect and nature of the question.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13818
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When my son was 12 or so we gave him a load of condoms. We told him we didn't care what he used them for, but that he should ask for more if they were used up or went past their safe date.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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I have to agree with your post and timmy's post above yours.
[Updated on: Wed, 21 May 2008 09:57]
Cycling is the one sport where a guy can shave his legs, wear spandex and bright colors, and be accepted.
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cossie
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On fire! |
Location: Exiled in North East Engl...
Registered: July 2003
Messages: 1699
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No Message Body
For a' that an' a' that,
It's comin' yet for a' that,
That man tae man, the worrld o'er
Shall brithers be, for a' that.
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Hi Scott -- welcome to the board. I enjoyed reading your post.
There's nothing to disagree with there. The only point I might make is that, fortunately, attitudes in the US are not the same across the world -- at least not in the UK (obviously you're talking about the US, but you didn't specifically say that). The British curriculum is national and less tainted by religious/homophobic sensibilities. And we have a more liberal society. Although there are a few people around (a tiny minority) who might make a fuss about being taught about 'alternative lifestyles', the vast majority of parents -- or, at least the vast majority of the new generation of parents -- is much more likely to accept gay people just as variations on the norm. Finally, these days, despite the hysteria about paedophilia, there is a very clear dissociation between paedophilia and homosexuality (as there should be), appreciated from the lowest to the highest levels by all but the most ignorant.
And yet there are still very much the same problems in the UK. From my own schooling, there was a clear reluctance on the part of teachers to talk about the issues -- despite most of them being perfectly liberal and open-minded people. I suppose that the perception was that it was not relevant to the teaching syllabus or pastoral care, that the benefit is not worth the risk (even though it must be much smaller than in America). This is a shame because, whereas straight kids have any number of role models and incidental confirmations of their normality (at school and elsewhere), gay children often grow up feeling excluded. If anything, they need more.
It's good to hear from an American teacher as I've really very little idea what life is like in an American school (er ... except for what one sees on television -- Buffy et al. -- which must be very stylised). Many thanks for your input.
David
P.S. Is 'liberal' a pejorative word in America? I've always seen it as very positive. Even the Conservative Party in the UK promotes many liberal policies.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13818
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In the UK schools are managed a little differently. We also welcome male and female homosexual teachers. Oddly the only really taboo subject here is death.
I think most of Europe is similar. As a sweeping generalisaton, with exceptions (section 28 in the UK [now repealed], for example), we have been historically far less modest, less prurient and less afraid of homosexuality that our cousins across the Atlantic
Having said that, a child's question is not always appropriate to handle in a classroom "on stage" so to speak. Often a very general answer is ideal for the classroom and then a specific answer, one to one, with the child. There are times when the questioning is to gain real information and times when a teacher needs to notify the school's child protection officer. Some questions indicate the potential for abuse of children (Almost only ever when a disproportionately large knowledge of sexual matters is present with respect to the age/intellect of the child).
Even so it must always come back to giving a child a well thought out, unbiased, correct answer, but always judged for the age, needs and intellect of the child asking the questions.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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No Message Body
[Updated on: Wed, 21 May 2008 10:00]
Cycling is the one sport where a guy can shave his legs, wear spandex and bright colors, and be accepted.
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ChowanFarmBoy
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Toe is in the water |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 93
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Why does it bother you that we discuss things at length?
Actually is doesn't bother me that the discussions go on and on, I just don't understand having the time to nit-pick everything into next week as we say in North Carolina. What word means this and what word means the other and verbs this and verbs that. It's just silly to me.
But Mr. Marc I have to say this and I hope it doesn't hurt your feelings but you got a way of saying things that gets folk's backs up and it's like you are sneering at people like you know what's what and nobody else does.
I am certain that when your mom found your box of raincoats in your drawer the conversation was talked to death....
Well no as a matter of fact it wasn't talked about at all because my mother wouldn't know how to talk about things like that to her son. If I had a sister she might have talked about it with her but like most else that I get into trouble for my dad got left to deal with me and that talk I wrote about was all that ever got said then or since.
I find it funny that she took them though. I wonder what she was thinking? Take away the raincoat and you'll just not go out and get wet?
Well I guess the poor thing was so shocked to find them and then to come to the conclusion that I was using them for what they were supposed to be used for she didn't really know what to do or say. Like I said she just passed that off to dad and he did the talking. The next time my girlfriend came over to the house my mom and dad were a little embarrassed I think. Mom went into the chirppy thing mom's do when they are trying to force themselves to be happy and polite. What dad told mom I don't know but the subject of my sex life has never since come up.
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ChowanFarmBoy
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Toe is in the water |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 93
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Howdy. I took the liberty of sending you an answer direct to your email from my email. I hope you don't mind that. I didn't think all my family history and how I got named like I am was all that interesting to the others.
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JimB
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Likes it here |
Registered: December 2006
Messages: 349
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I would imagine that to those outside the US your description of our educational system structure sounds crazy. I live on the other side of the country and am in School District No. 376 of my state. That's nearly 900 different districts, with 900 different sets of curriculum, in only two of the fifty states.
For those not familiar with it, the term "State's Rights" is what describes areas that the federal government is supposed to stay out of. There are many different topics covered by this term with education being only one.
I'm not sure that I would agree with you regarding liberalism in general, but that it DOES depend on where you live. The east and south are far more conservative than the west, where I have always lived. California recognizes marajuana (sp?) for medicinal purposes and Oregon allows a person to end their life when they have an incurable illness.
I have experienced on this forum the difference between how freedom is perceived in the US and UK, and the issue of State's Rights is a part of the origin of these differences.
By the way, welcome to the forum, Scott.
JimB
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Thanks for the clarifications.
[Updated on: Wed, 21 May 2008 09:58]
Cycling is the one sport where a guy can shave his legs, wear spandex and bright colors, and be accepted.
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