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I have a parking permit to park in the road outside my (large, shared, suburban) house, granted by Reading council. They are rationed, so I'm one of the lucky people whose application has been granted.
There are already four residents who park outside the house with reserved parking in a concrete area in front, assigned by the landlady, which means that there are no street parking spaces just outside it. But there are various other street parking spaces all the way down the road.
Today, I was parking in front of the house next door when a woman came out of the house, and said, brusquely, "I'm afraid you'll have to move. My husband will be back in a minute and he needs to park there. We've already got two other cars and there's not enough space for them as it is."
I don't make a habit of parking in any particular space, but she is now the second person who has asked me not to park outside their house (the other one being the man living at the house on the other side). Bearing in mind that there are lots of houses in the road, I'll always be outside someone's house.
Not wanting to cause a scene, I moved down the road, outside another house instead (no idea whose, but they haven't asked me not to park there, so I assume it's fair game).
Is this normal suburban behaviour? (I was brought up in the almost-countryside, where there are many more potential parking spaces than cars.) As I can't park outside my own house without obstructing the other residents, am I quite possibly offending someone every time I park anywhere in the entire street? Do I have any obligation, moral or otherwise, never to park outside that woman's house?
(I told you it was trivial! People tell me I worry too much ...)
David
[Updated on: Fri, 18 July 2008 19:27] |
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Parking on the street is "firt come first serve"
The street is public and accessable to all.... Therefore it is beyond your neighbors expectation to believe the places in front of their property is "reserved" for them.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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Providing your car is taxed, MOT'd and insured, you're not causing an obstruction and there are no restrictions of waiting (parking) you have the right to park on the Queen's highway and this needs pointing out. It's something that needs nipping in the bud. Sometimes people put plastic cones in the gutter to reserve a spot. David, just point out that you live there as well.
Hugs
N
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
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Dear David,
Doesn't the council issue a leaflet? We've just voted on whether to have a parking scheme or not and if we have one they say the permit will allow one to park in any of a small group of streets wherever there is a space.
The implication is that one has a right to park in any space, whoever lives in an adjacent house. I suspect that the woman was being a bit unreasonable - I'd say having three cars might be unreasonable too.
It might be fun to email your council and ask them what they would recommend you to say (and do!) when it comes up again.
In our case the first permit for a household is going to cost £40 but a second permit is over a hundred and if one can get a third permit it will be very expensive indeed.
Love,
Anthony
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My permit entitles me to park in this road only. So I don't have much of a choice about where to park. The signs say 'permit holders only'.
Something I didn't mention in my original post was that a young man, whom I took to be her son, asked me a minute or two before she arrived to move my car backwards a bit to economise parking space in front of his house. That seemed a reasonable request at the time. Being asked to move my car a second time, however, was definitely inflammatory.
If it happens again, I will challenge. Incidentally, I have been respecting the request of the chap on the other side, and will continue to do so, as he is elderly and actually has a good reason not to want to walk far to his car. But this woman was middle-aged and mobile, and her son was my age and even more so.
I suspect that most of the houses in the street are owned by their inhabitants, and I'm pretty sure this is the the only one containing bedsits. I wonder if the neighbours are likely to be more intolerant of me than if I were a homeowner. In this house, we're all young and poor, quite a few of us are foreign, and even I don't know everyone's name.
David
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13778
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They have no right whatsoever to do it. The highway is for all. It is normal intimidating behaviour,though. People think of it as "their" space
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Is the woman's name Hyacinth?
Is the son's name Sheridon?
Does he have a friend, Tarquin?
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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I'm sure that woman would like to claim that spot in front of their home as their exclusive parking area. However, your parking permit is just as valid as theirs. You are forced to park a distance away from your own home so why shouldn't they expect the same parking inconvenience? It seems to me that the council has deemed that there are "x" number of spots to park so they have issued "x" number of parking permits. Let the lady and her husband and son play the parking lottery game with the rest of you.
Youth crisis hot-line 866-488-7386, 24 hr (U.S.A.)
There are people who want to help you cope with being you.
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Dear David,
I think it is quite likely that you are worse treated because you are sharing a house. Where I live a lot of the houses are multiply occupied by students (I'm half a mile from Bristol University Senate House) and there are a lot of complaints (noise, rubbish, drunkeness and so on) although I've not suffered any of those things.
But in Bristol there is almost no control of parking - when the roadsides are full people park diagonally across the corners and I don't think anyone ever gets punished for it.
Love,
Anthony
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Dear Paul,
It is quite unsafe to assume anything that a local council does is rational. They are just as likely to have issued 2x permits (on the grounds that some people are bound to be away) or 1/2 x permits on the grounds that some spaces will be needed for delivery vans and so on!
Love,
Anthony
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A note was left under my windscreen, full of inaccuracies (they said they had told me many times not to park there -- false! it was only once; they said that I had left it there for an entire week on one occasion -- impossible! as I drive to work and haven't taken any holiday since moving in). They also said they are going to complain to my landlady. I'm not sure what they can base it on -- I'm definitely within the street parking rules. It's pretty evident that their real issue is that they don't like living next door to a shared house.
What really gets my goat is that I haven't parked outside their house since they asked me not to, except on one occasion, yesterday -- and a rude note popped up the exact same day. Do they lurk inside the house, hiding behind the curtains, and dash out to stick a vitriolic note under someone's windscreen the moment they park on their supposed hallowed ground?
I'd be quite within my rights to take it up with the council. But, instead, I have just written a long, magnanimous and understanding letter which hopefully will annoy them even more. (Theirs was anonymous and unpleasant; mine's more like a solicitor's letter.) The sarcasm is sufficiently muted, I think, that I can easily maintain it does not exist.
David
[Updated on: Sun, 17 August 2008 19:50] |
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13778
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I know how tempting it is to deal with the proletariat like that, but an even better thing to do is to ignore it.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Very true!!!
It will wrankle them all the more if they come to believe that their notes are not even worth the effort of a retort.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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JimB
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Likes it here |
Registered: December 2006
Messages: 349
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I agree with you David, being courteous and polite while dealing with the problem will not go unnoticed by those who's support you need. This is not something that will go away by ignoring it as these people wrongly think they own the street in front of their house.
I'm sure this will not be the last of it, keep us posted.
JimB
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13778
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I understand your sentiments, Jim, and Deej's. Even so, war is caused by two parties, not by one. They do not own the street, nor do any of us, but they will never give up believing that they do.
Smile and nod and ignore them. All arguing will do is to create war.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Oh, I didn't argue. Among other things, I said that if they had a medical condition or disability that prevented them from parking further up or down the street, I apologised. I'm pretty sure they don't, because I've seen all three of them.
I will make an attempt not to park outside there again. The hassle isn't worth it... though of course I won't tell them that. In my letter to them I definitely didn't apologise for it, and called my undertaking 'an act of goodwill'. I hope that annoys them.
David
[Updated on: Sun, 17 August 2008 21:50] |
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To the owner of the white Citroen Saxo; Reg P254 LYC parked outside Number 26 [Morgan Road].
We must ask you again not to park outside our house. We have spoken to you about this on several occasions and have clearly explained why your actions are unfair, i.e. Our family has 3 cars. We park 2 outside our home and the third is left on Allcroft Road so as not to inconvenience our neighbours. You regularly leave your car outside our house on Friday evening and over the weekend. We have explained to you that cars may not park opposite during the day. This requires us to get up before 9am each Saturday to remove our car to avoid a parking fine. On one occasion your car was left outside our house for a week. Your house uses a large number of parking spaces in this street. You park outside our house repeatedly when spaces are available outside your own. I suggest that if you have a problem with a parking space, you consult your landlady or come to an agreement with your co-tenants. Obviously no-one owns a parking space. All other residents in this street abide by fairness and consideration for others. A copy of this will be sent to your landlady.
The owners of Number 26.
[Repeated, my annotations in brackets.]
To the owner of the white Citroen Saxo; Reg P254 LYC parked outside Number 26 [Morgan Road].
We must ask you again not to park outside our house. We have spoken to you about this on several occasions [once] and have clearly explained why your actions are unfair, i.e. Our family has 3 cars. We park 2 outside our home and the third is left on Allcroft Road so as not to inconvenience our neighbours. [No, it's not for that reason -- they park it on Allcroft Road because they don't have a parking permit for that car for Morgan Road. Otherwise, by the same logic, surely parking it on Allcroft Road would inconvenience the people who live in Allcroft Road?].
You regularly leave your car outside our house on Friday evening and over the weekend. [Once -- this weekend. Most weekends I'm away in Somerset, in any case.]
We have explained to you that cars may not park opposite during the day. [That's because opposite is not a designated parking space, it's just a yellow line. But there are lots of designated parking spaces further up and down the road.]
This requires us to get up before 9am each Saturday to remove our car to avoid a parking fine. [Only if you don't have a parking permit and insist on parking on a yellow line instead -- but that's not my problem, it's yours.]
On one occasion your car was left outside our house for a week. [Impossible -- I commute to work every day using my car, and haven't taken a holiday since I moved in.]
Your house uses a large number of parking spaces in this street. [That's a matter for my landlady and the council, not me.]
You park outside our house repeatedly when spaces are available outside your own. [There is an off-road, non-permit parking area where people park their cars in front of my house, but spaces there are allocated to other people by my landlady -- as it belongs to her, she can designate them as she likes -- and I've agreed not to park in them.]
I suggest that if you have a problem with a parking space, you consult your landlady or come to an agreement with your co-tenants. [That's exactly what I've done.]
Obviously no-one owns a parking space. [Er, doesn't this statement undermine their whole argument that they and they alone should be able to park outside their house?]
All other residents in this street abide by fairness and consideration for others [they left out 'except us']. A copy of this will be sent to your landlady.
The owners of Number 26.
[Updated on: Sun, 17 August 2008 21:34] |
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The Owners,
26 Morgan Road,
Reading.
17 August 2008
Dear Sir or Madam,
Thank you for the note left on my windscreen yesterday. I am the owner of P254 LYC, a white Citroen Saxo.
I appreciate that it must be frustrating for you to live next to a shared house, and I have no doubt that were the positions reversed I would feel the same way. However, I wonder whether you may possibly have partially confused me with someone else. You have not spoken to me about parking my car on ‘several occasions’. I do remember that you mentioned it to me one evening; on that occasion I parked elsewhere, and have undertaken since then to park elsewhere if at all possible. With reference to your statement ‘on one occasion your car was left outside our house for a week’, I have only lived at number 22/24 since April and during that time I have not been on holiday (except for weekends and bank holidays). I rely on the car to commute to work which makes it unlikely that I would have been able to leave it outside your house for more than a couple of days at worst.
Overall, I have parked outside your house very infrequently and only when I have been unable to find anywhere else close by to park. Morgan Road is a permit parking zone supervised by the council and I have a valid parking permit for the road. The permit does not specify outside which house it is possible for me to park, and, assuming that you have a similar permit, I would imagine the same applies for yours. Thus I take it that parking is officially operated on a ‘first come, first served’ basis. If you have a medical reason or disability that prevents you from being able to park slightly further up or down the road, then I apologise for obstructing you.
In the case of this weekend, my car was parked halfway across the boundary between number 24 and 26. The reason that I cannot always park directly outside number 22/24 is that this would obstruct other people who pull up in the area in front of the house. I too try to abide by the concepts of ‘fairness and consideration for others’.
Bearing in mind that you evidently feel so strongly on this issue, as an act of goodwill, I am prepared to undertake not to park outside number 26 again. If someone else parks outside your house in a car other than mine, I naturally cannot be held responsible.
If my landlady raises the issue with me then I am happy to discuss it with her, and will provide her with a copy of this letter as well to demonstrate that I take the subject seriously.
Yours sincerely,
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I know you have handled the situation in a civilized and honorable manner, but Im sorry David, if it had been me I would have said things that would have made their ears burn. I cannot stand people who are self important. They believe that the area in front of their house belongs to them, but the council sees things differently. You were issued a permit, I assume you had to pay for it. This gives you the right to park on that street anywhere on a first come first serve basis. I know you did the right thing, but I would never let people like that get the upper hand.
If you stand for Freedom, but you wont stand for war, then you dont stand for anything worth fighting for.
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It has occurred to me that the way to annoy them beyond belief would be, having put that letter through their letterbox this evening, I were then to disregard it completely and park outside their house again tomorrow evening. 
David
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... and, yes, I did pay for the permit, and it allows me to park anywhere in the street.
David
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would be to put a note on their car next time one of them parks a couple of feet into the space in front of number 22/24 (my house) -- as they do quite commonly -- saying that it's unfair of them to encroach on the space and that I've told them repeatedly not to park there (even though I haven't).
David
[Updated on: Sun, 17 August 2008 23:15] |
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and make sure that at least half of it is in the area in front of their house.
They only have a problem with cars, right?
David
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13778
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Cheapest skip I've found is from Simpsons in Slough, at £190, plus road permit at (I think) £30.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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But David, you could put the shoe on the other foot here, and tell them you will forward their letter to the council, asking for the official position.
They know they're talking bullshit, so it might worry them to think you're getting the council involved. Of course you don't actually have to send it!
I bet you wouldn't hear any more about it.
Mike
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That's an excellent idea, Mike -- I might very well do that!
David
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At £220, just to see the look on their faces ... very, very tempting.
David
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David, here in Israel the problem of suburban parking is less acute. This is because most people live in apartment blocks and most apartment blocks are built "on pillars". This means that the bottom floor of the apartment block is raised one storey above the ground and the area underneath is used for parking. Thus, in theory, all residents should be able to park their cars off the road. If you buy or rent an apartment you buy or rent the parking area that goes with it. However, our building, for example, has twelve apartments and parking space for nine cars. What idiot planned it that way? Furthermore, there are a couple of residents who have more than one car.
Anyway, while our road is full of parked cars during the day (because of a shopping area round the corner) there is room for 'spare' cars to park in the evening.
J F R
The paradox has often been noted that the United States, founded in secularism, is now the most religiose country in Christendom, while England, with an established church headed by its constitutional monarch, is among the least. (Richard Dawkins, 2006)
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Fingolfin
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Likes it here |
Location: Slovakia
Registered: August 2008
Messages: 265
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Hi David, hi JFR
in Slovak cities it is even more fun...
The number of parking slots was designed to fit the amount of cars sometimes in seventies and eighties of the last century (how terribly that sounds). However, after the revolution in 1989 when our country set for the journey to capitalism the number of cars multiplied several times. Nowadays, it usually occurs that parking slots in front of blocks of flats are so full, that you simply have to park somewhere where you block someone else's way. In the morning you often find your car pushed tens of meters away from the place where you left it in the evening. This may sound strange, but... it works. People got used to it. It is still way better to find your car pushed away than to not find it at all.
F.
It is better to switch on a small light than to curse the darkness.
- Vincent Šikula, Slovak writer
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Dear Deej,
That is the soft answer that turneth away wrath. I am surprised how tolerant and considerate you are. I'm not so nice.
In my opinion it won't do any good. You being prepared to undertake ... - you have lost a potential parking space and the bullies have been taught the lesson that bullying works.
And you won't even get thanked. The one thing that is unforgiveable is being right and you are right and they know it.
Love,
Anthony
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To be honest, I'm lazy. I've got enough to worry about at the moment, and I don't want to drag in my landlady and the council, even though I know I'm in the right on this occasion. I've already decided to move to somewhere better when my six months here is up (mid-October) -- the room's so small it's miserable having to move everything off my bed when I want to go to sleep in the evening, and vice versa when I wake up.
I'm already vaguely looking for somewhere else. On the complete off-chance, I don't suppose anyone here knows some decent people in their twenties looking to share a flat or house in Reading? Or a landlord who's got somewhere reasonably nice (this time a one or two-bedroom flat, rather than just a room) to rent?
David
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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David,
For best results, call some real estate people in the area.
Often, the nicest places are handled by agencies.
And it saves a lot of time that random looking eats up.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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