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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13777
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You know the one, the book they made the movie about a goat and some compasses. I bought a copy from a charity shop, and I'm persevering with it.
All I can see is why fundamentalist Christians wanted to ban the movie sine it's a rant against Christianity. There seems to be an odd theme about puberty and castration running at least through the first book of the trilogy, too.
I tend to finish books I start, but is this one worth it? Don't spoil the rather turgid plot, I might eventually enjoy it, but is it worth the effort?
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Timmy, I always thought so, having read all of the trilogy. It does get a bit preachy from time to time but I felt the imagery made it worth the effort.
Al - Rubilacxe
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13777
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So far it seems rather dull and also pretty poorly written. The whole thing is fairly predictable in its unpredictability of setting, too. Ah well, I guess I'll keep swimming!
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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I thought 'Dark Materials' was by Philip Pullman. I don't recognise the goat. And surely that one isn't a rant against christianity? Have I got the wrong 'Dark Materials'? Who is the author of yours, Timmy?
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The Series is called His Dark Materials by Phillip Pullman...
Its well worth it
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13777
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"Golden Compass" (movie title), "God Encompasseth Us" (Christian mamntyra), "Goat and Compasses" (pub name).
Yup, by Pullman
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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It is the Trilogy then . I have read it all and found it a good read. I am afraid I very much liked the 'armoured bears'. Yes its a bit of a rant against certain omnioptent beings....or not depeding on your point of view.
I read it just after it came out and enjoyed it at the time.I have the three seperate novels of the trilogy not the boxed set or the 'all in one' version.
Briefly its about a coming of age journey of two kids, Lyra and Will as they travel through entrances from parallel worlds with interesting adventures/challenges along the way.
Paul Jamison.
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OK, so you mean 'Northern Lights', The Subtle Knife' and 'The Amber Spyglass'. I think they are really excellent. I'm surprised anyone should think the books are a rant against christianity.
On the other hand I'm also surprised that people don't see that 'The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe' by C S Lewis is trying to convert people to be Roman Catholics!
Love,
Anthony
[Updated on: Wed, 22 October 2008 15:18] |
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13777
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"Pullman has singled out certain elements of Christianity for criticism, as in the following: "I suppose technically, you'd have to put me down as an agnostic. But if there is a God, and he is as the Christians describe him, then he deserves to be put down and rebelled against".[33] However, Pullman has also said in interviews and appearances that his argument can extend to all religions. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/His_Dark_Materials
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy wrote:
> "Pullman has singled out certain elements of Christianity for criticism, as in the following: "I suppose technically, you'd have to put me down as an agnostic. But if there is a God, and he is as the Christians describe him, then he deserves to be put down and rebelled against".[33] However, Pullman has also said in interviews and appearances that his argument can extend to all religions. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/His_Dark_Materials
From the same article:
"His Dark Materials has occasioned some controversy, primarily amongst some Christian groups.
Pullman has expressed surprise over what he perceives as a low level of criticism for His Dark Materials on religious grounds, saying "I've been surprised by how little criticism I've got. Harry Potter's been taking all the flak...Meanwhile, I've been flying under the radar, saying things that are far more subversive than anything poor old Harry has said. My books are about killing God".
I can see where some might see that as a rant against certain religious beliefs.
[Updated on: Wed, 22 October 2008 17:54]
Al - Rubilacxe
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Anyone who is or was familiar with C. S. Lewis was aware of his religious leanings. The meaning of his stories were not masked or hidden.
If you stand for Freedom, but you wont stand for war, then you dont stand for anything worth fighting for.
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Yes, Roger, I agree with that. But, of course the rest of the world doesn't seem to have noticed.
And I was surprised that Timmy had picked up on Philip Pullman's agnosticism so quickly. Now I am a devout atheist and would have expected Timmy to raise some objection to my opinions.
Not that this is a criticism of him; it's just that I hadn't felt like that about Pullman's work and so it is a question about different sensibilities.
Love,
Anthony
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I read Pullman's trilogy during my last sojourn in hospital. By and large it left me untouched and I found the storyline disjointed. If anything I enjoyed the interplay between the characters. There was a marked lack of sentimentality leading on to brutality..
Hugs
N
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13777
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ah, you are, of course, a paradox, being devout and an atheist.
What objection?
I see Christianity as one of the most vile and warlike and oppressive cults there is.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13777
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It seems, so far, to be random deaths just for fun.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Benji
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Likes it here |
Location: USA
Registered: August 2007
Messages: 297
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I have not read he book, and frankly never even heard of it until now. Saying that of an unread book, why would any one want to ban it? If it is as a controversial subject as I suspect it is. So be it, if you don't like the telly station your watching you change channels no? So where is the beef?
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13777
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When the bible was first translated out of scholarly languages into English, it became a banned book.
One attempts to ban a book when it disagrees fundamentally with one's beliefs, or because it releases knowledge to the masses that one wishes to controol. This is true of erotica, religion, and other genres. It is done "by guardians of morality" and "for your own good", but is mainly in order to keep control of the populace in one manner or another.
Pullman's weighty tome is religiously controversial. Apparently so is Harry Potter.
[Updated on: Thu, 23 October 2008 06:18]
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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They were against Harry Potter because it assumed and taught children that magic, deamons, wizards and witches were real. Also that it was very very popular and the religious zelots were afraid that it would teach the wrong things to children. Even tho the books taught about honesty, bravery, friendship, loyalty.
Pullman did nothing to hide his disdane for religion. The religious right is scared of anything that can reach a childs mine that isnt based on their beliefs.
If you stand for Freedom, but you wont stand for war, then you dont stand for anything worth fighting for.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13777
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Both sets of books seem to have a solid and positive morality, but it is not the morality of the religious nutbar. And that is their problem, especially when they think that their own book is inerrant.
But, if a belief is rooted in fantasy, anything that criticises it can be seen by the feeble minded as dangerous. Yet challenging a belief often increases the faith in it. Thus we prove again that the feeble minded are feeble minded.
[Updated on: Thu, 23 October 2008 06:41]
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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religion by its very nature relies on the mind of the person being feeble. No religion wants you to think. Christianity wants you to let the priest or preachers do your thinking for you. To attend a Christian church you are required to hang your brain at the door when you go in. When a person starts to think for themselves, they begin to question and when they question they start to see the faults, and soon the belief faulters. So you have to keep your flock ignorant and stupid believing only what you tell them.
If you stand for Freedom, but you wont stand for war, then you dont stand for anything worth fighting for.
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I think, Roger, that Pullman's book, too, teaches people about honesty, bravery, friendship, loyalty and also about truth, which in a way is fundamental to them all.
Love,
Anthony
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Yes, Roger, I agree.
What I find *really* hard to understand is how someone's ability to distinguish between what's true and what's imaginary can be perverted to the extent necessary for them to say they believe in any religion.
Yet there seems to be an endless stream of people willing to confess their inability on the radio. I frequently have to turn it off because it irritates me. If I am unfortunate to turn it on at 5.45 am I can tell that it is 'Prayer for the day' just from the tone of voice. I think of it as a special voice for smug pious falsehood.
Love,
Anthony
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Roger wrote:
> religion by its very nature relies on the mind of the person being feeble. No religion wants you to think.
Unless you're maintaining that Quakers are not religious, that is quite definitely factually untrue. Quakers base themselves in thought and experience: there's almost nothing that is "dogma", and practice is taken forward by waiting for a consensus to emerge.
It is true that there a very people who maintain that being a Quaker is essentially a philosophical rather than a religious position ... a small minority. Most Quakers wouldn't agree, but don't on those grounds condemn those who do.
Note that I'm not a Quaker, though I do attend Meeting from time to time.
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
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