I expect simple behaviours here. Friendship, and love. Any advice should be from the perspective of the person asking, not the person giving! We have had to make new membership moderated to combat the huge number of spammers who register
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
My upbringing meant I had more to come to terms with than just being gay. I had to learn to understand that what I wanted, dreamed about, desired most in the sex I want and need did not make me less of a man.
I was raised in the 'boys don't cry' school of being a boy. Manly things were appropriate. Clothes that were at all fancy were deprecated by my father. I'm certain he stole a shirt of mine and binned it because it "makes you look like a nancy boy" and then lied about it. Or my mother did.
So, when my sexual needs were forming, I felt doubly guilty.
I knew, you see, that my ultimate desire was to be pinned down on my back by the boy I adored and penetrated remorselessly and roughly until he could carry on no longer. I knew I wanted to submit to him completely, totally, and very passively. I wanted him to 'own' me, if you like. It wasn't a one sided relationship I wanted, but that was, is, my ultimate sexual fantasy. In any relationship we were to be equals.
I was ashamed of that for a long time. I could fantasise about it to myself, of course I could, but I couldn't speak of it without feeling the shame of being, somehow, unmanly.
In my upbringing, men who were fucked were girl equivalents. But I am not a girl. I'm a pretty blokey bloke. I like man things. I did my own car maintenance when they had no computers on board. I drank beer in pints. I wore jeans that were scruffy, not tailored. I swore, swear. So equating being a 'real man' with needing to be possessed by another boy was emotional gymnastics.
The first time I said to anyone "I am a natural bottom" I cried real tears, partly of relief and partly of some sort of feeling of shame. Confessing (note the choice of word) that I wanted to be taken almost by force and dominated took me much longer. It was evilly hard to do. It wasn't 'wonderfully liberating' to say it the first time, either. It was as scary as coming out as gay.
Ok, it isn't a casual conversational element. It's not a "Hey, I'm timmy, and I want to have my legs thrown over my head and to be fucked to within an imagined inch of my life" thing! Dinner table material it ain't! Even so, as you've guessed, I understand myself now enough to know that I am a man who desires to be fucked. I'm whatever a 'real man' is, and those things are separate things. I very much doubt that J Edgar Hoover felt he was less of a man for dressing up in female clothing.
I know I've posted about this before, but we have an ever changing audience here. Even if no-one posts a reply that audience will read and see one guy who is, at last comfortable in his sexual needs (even if he isn't getting them fulfilled) and understands that those needs do not define who he is.
Even so, I'd like to see your thoughts about me, or about you and your needs, posted, if you dare
Location: Canada
Registered: March 2010
Messages: 188
Wow Timmy, I must say that after reading the forum articles I don't usually find myself aroused... I usually am versatile and wanting equal roles in a sexual encounter but your post has me intrigued. I am also a man who is not effeminate in any way and could not be picked out of the crowd as being gay, in fact I am not attracted to effeminate men either. However, the thought of being dominated by a man is exciting to say the least, but in no way makes one less of a man.I have never been ashamed of my wants, needs or desires and have beeen lucky enough to have been able to fulfill most of them throughout my life. Homosexuality is displayed in hundreds of animal species and yet humans are the only ones to feel shame about it. Sucks, huh?
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
We only have "received shame", not real shame. We have been made to be ashamed by bigots and by those who seek to control our every waking thought and desire.
So I am no longer ashamed. I refuse to be ashamed and reject shame.
Location: England
Registered: November 2003
Messages: 1756
Throughout my sexuality I have only sought the masculine. I am not attracted by effeminate males, but I am by camp males, but that is different.
When I see an attractive male my reaction is either I'd like to penetrate him or I'd like to be penetrated by him, rarely both. There is no rationale behind my reactions.
Hugs
Nigel
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
Location: Worcester, England
Registered: January 2005
Messages: 1559
Nigel wrote:
> When I see an attractive male my reaction is either I'd like to penetrate him or I'd like to be penetrated by him, rarely both. There is no rationale behind my reactions.
>
Yup, that's pretty much how it works for me as well. When I find a guy attractive, it comes with some feeling of exactly how I'd most like to have sex with him - positions, "roles", oral/anal/manual/whatever. When that has developed into an actual physical relationship, it has in fact tended to work out like that most of the time (allowing for occasional versatility on both sides).
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
Nigel wrote:
> Throughout my sexuality I have only sought the masculine. I am not attracted by effeminate males, but I am by camp males, but that is different.
I'm finding the distinction between the two hard to grasp at present. Perhaps you could help me with some well known examples? I thought "John Barrowman can act camp", but so can we all. I suspect you're looking at more than a temporary role playing affectation of campness?
> When I see an attractive male my reaction is either I'd like to penetrate him or I'd like to be penetrated by him, rarely both. There is no rationale behind my reactions.
I think we have the benefit of being able to visualise the other guy in precisely the role we would like him to play with us. There are many times when I realise I do not want to be a bottom at all. My nostrils flare and I want to leap across the divide and do unto him that which I have said I fantasise having done unto me.
Location: England
Registered: November 2003
Messages: 1756
I can give examples, but I wonder whether they will mean anything. For instance Kenneth Williams and John Inman, both camp, but I found the former perfectly male and the latter effeminate.
I think back to my university friend Lewis. He was camp, but very very masculine.
Hugs
Nigel
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
This is in reply to your first post on this thread, Timmy.
I read through your post and found that I can relate to this a lot. I remember well the time I spent with my first (and only) true boyfriend. Yeah we both spent time on our backs and I would have done that anytime he wanted me that way. It was nothing to do with 'manliness' or 'unmanlyness'. It was to do with love. I loved him so much, so intensely that I would have done it for him any time he asked, and a few other things too. And he did ask; but out of respect for me.
I was lucky. It wasn't a one-way or imaginary affair. It was for real, and for the time it lasted, there was no one who could have come between us. Oh yes, there were others later on, but in no way was the feeling as intense or strong as it had been between us. But like all good things, there has to something to screw (no pun intended) it up. He wasn't gay.
He had been a foster child, and threw his whole love at the people who rescued him from a certain predicament. He responded to me, the real gay one, in a way that he knew pleased me. It pleased him too for a while. But as we grew older, I knew he wasn't gay and would want and need a wife and kids.
To make him truly happy, I had to set him free from our relationship. I even introduced him to his future wife. He stayed a part of our lives by changing his name to ours. We keep in touch. He still loves me like a real brother. And he's never regretted the time we spent together.
So although it didn't last, I had a time of great happiness. I treasure that, and now I'm older, and in failing health, I still count myself fortunate that for that time I found true happines.
Location: England
Registered: November 2003
Messages: 1756
Tonight on Yesteryear there was a 1996 tribute to Kenneth Williams where he says that he considers himself strictly on the masculine side of camp. 'Butch' was the word he used.
Hugs
Nigel
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
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