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You are here: Home > Forum > A Place of Safety > General Talk > Why does the partner for sex matter to other people?
Why does the partner for sex matter to other people?  [message #67555] Sat, 16 March 2013 23:51 Go to next message
timmy

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Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
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At risk of some fuckwit thinking I am equating homosexuality with the shagging of animals, I'm not. I believe in equality in all things, so I am equating the shagging of anyone and anything with every other thing. This includes sofas.

If I have sex with:
* Boys (lawful age)
* Girls (lawful age)
* Men
* Women
* Farmyard friends
* My dog

Why does it matter to anyone else, provided I do them no harm?



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Why does the partner for sex matter to other people?  [message #67556 is a reply to message #67555] Sun, 17 March 2013 09:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Smokr is currently offline  Smokr

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I can't wait for one of them to answer. As someone to whom it doesn't matter who/what others bed down with, I can only speculate that it matters to those it matters to because they have nothing worthwhile to do with their time and/or they have a desire to control all aspects of all others' lives.
By the way, while you do mention an inanimate object in the leading statement, you neglected to include said inanimate objects in your list.



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Re: Why does the partner for sex matter to other people?  [message #67557 is a reply to message #67556] Sun, 17 March 2013 10:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

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Opps, must be showing innate sofaphobia!



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Why does the partner for sex matter to other people?  [message #67558 is a reply to message #67555] Sun, 17 March 2013 12:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kitzyma is currently offline  Kitzyma

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The argument against sex with animals might be the same as for underage children - i.e. the problem of ensuring informed consent and whether the sex causes distress. Of course, whether or not that's important depend on one's attitudes to animals and their welfare. I suppose the sort of person who's happy with the idea of battery hens just so he can have cheap eggs and chicken isn't going to care much if a chicken is distressed by being f***ed by him.

Re: Why does the partner for sex matter to other people?  [message #67560 is a reply to message #67558] Sun, 17 March 2013 17:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13739



The animals part I find interesting. Christianity, and quite possibly its predecessor, gives humans 'dominion over animals', but the religious police specifically prohibit sex with them. We can slaughter them, work them to death, sacrifice them, ill treat them, but we can't have sex with them.

Chickens. I fear, are likely to be damaged. I was thinking of something where the geometry would work.

Some of the weirder videos one can see show that informed consent is not required! Male dogs see well up for it with anything that moves and most things that don't!



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Why does the partner for sex matter to other people?  [message #67561 is a reply to message #67560] Sun, 17 March 2013 19:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kitzyma is currently offline  Kitzyma

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My personal belief is that humans have no more right of dominion over other animals than lions have over antelopes. It is the natural order for some animals (humans, lions) to eat other animals (cows, antelopes). Humans, being omnivores, can at least have some choice, unlike obligatory carnivores such as lions.

Humans have the ability for empathy and can understand that animals can experience pain and stress. So if humans wish to make any sort of claim to superiority over their fellow animals they should try to minimise any pain and suffering during any necessary exploitaion of those fellow animals.

Though not my own particular foible, I can't think of any objection to sex with animals if there is no stress or harm and if one could be sure the animal consents. In the case of a dog humping anything, I suppose if the animal initiates the activity then it would be reasonable to assume consent. Smile

Re: Why does the partner for sex matter to other people?  [message #67562 is a reply to message #67561] Sun, 17 March 2013 20:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

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Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13739



My main thread, however, is that it is, surely, no-one's business but our own with what or with which or with whom we share our nether regions. Why do other people impose their will upon us?



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Why does the partner for sex matter to other people?  [message #67563 is a reply to message #67562] Sun, 17 March 2013 22:16 Go to previous message
Kitzyma is currently offline  Kitzyma

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"timmy wrote on Sun, 17 March 2013 20:24"
My main thread, however, is that it is, surely, no-one's business but our own with what or with which or with whom we share our nether regions. Why do other people impose their will upon us?

--

I'll start with a summary response, so those with little time and/or little inclination don't need to read the detailed arguments in the rest of this posting.

In summary:
Religion and those who want power have always imposed their will on all sorts of personal behaviours, such as what to eat, what to wear, etc. and not just sex. For the most part there has been no logical reason for such interference, therefore it shouldn't be anyone else's business, but that doesn't prevent them from interfering. In our current society in the UK, the rules are relatively few (age/dead/animal) and it is at least possible to give some logical argument for having those rules.

In detail:
The quoted post is rather broadly phrased. e.g. it omits the caveat 'as long as it doesn't harm anyone'. Also, with what-which-whom the sharing of nether regions is done can cover many things. As well, it depends on what 'business' means. For example, does it mean they shouldn't interfere (have laws against it) or does it mean it's not their business in that they shouldn't want to know about it? If the latter, then it will always be 'their business' because humans are natural gossips. Personally, I don't care which celeb is shagging which footballer, but it seems lots of people like to read about such gossip in newspapers.

Presumably, the question 'Why do other people impose their will upon us?' applies to our current society in this country. If it means societies throughout history and in different parts of the world then the simple answer is: 'power and religion'. Religions and those who want power over others have always had arbitrary rules about what you can eat, what you can do on certain days, what to wear, etc. If the question refers to our society now in the UK, I think that nowadays in this country it's against the law to have sex with an underage human, a dead human, or an animal. Isn't everything else lawful?

Living in a society, much of what we do becomes other peoples' business, e.g. where we put our rubbish, smoking in public places, etc. If we own a listed building we can't alter it without permission. There are some rules that are apparently arbitrary but that are best followed - e.g. driving on a particular side of the road. The choice of which side of the road doesn't really matter as long as everyone follows the same convention.

If some sentient being is harmed or put in danger of harm, especially if that sentient being cannot consent and/or prevent itself being abused, then it surely is no longer our private business. I use the phrase 'sentient being' because it includes young children and animals. Many animals are just as sentient as a child under 2 years old.

Shouldn't other people impose their will on us to prevent us from being cruel to children or animals?

Logically, we can share our nether regions with animate beings or inanimate objects.

I don't know of any laws against use of inanimate objects. Some might make fun of using a blow-up doll, but nowadays things like dildos seem to be considered as acceptable. Some objects used to be alive but ate now not alive, e.g. Meat, dead chickens, dead humans. I understand it is against the law to have sex with a dead human. Should that be anyone else's business? e.g. What about health issues?

So, that leaves us with living things, which can be sentient or non-sentient. I don't think anyone would in our society would consider it wrong to have sex with living but non-sentient things like plants. F**king a melon isn't frowned upon, though using a cactus as a dildo might be considered odd. Smile

That leaves us with sentient living things, i.e. humans and other animals.
In our current society, we can shag any consenting human of either sex or any sexuality, as long as they are over a certain age. The exact age might be debatable, but I think that most people would agree that some age-related rules are desirable because of possibilities of coercion and questions about consent. For me, the coercion/consent problem would carry over to animals.

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