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Re: Chapter Size  [message #78021 is a reply to message #78020] Sat, 14 August 2021 21:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13604



All I wil say, Mark, is that he is welcome here if he plays nice. I have no problem with dissenting voices, as I am sure everyone knows. It is the manner of the dissent that I quarrel with.

So, again, he can play nice and remain, if he wishes,  or go if he does not play nice.

I used to allow more rope. But life is too short to waste it on those who behave poorly while they are behaving poorly.



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Chapter Size  [message #78047 is a reply to message #78020] Wed, 18 August 2021 20:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Teddy is currently offline  Teddy

Really getting into it
Location: USA
Registered: October 2006
Messages: 474



"Mark wrote on Sat, 14 August 2021 14:08"

"Teddy wrote on Mon, 09 August 2021 15:07"

"Biff Spork wrote on Mon, 09 August 2021 08:36"
luvtwinks and Mark both pointed out that long chapters demand more of the online reader because if they are not finished at one go, then one has to waste time scrolling around to find where one stopped reading.






--

Thanks for your comments. I found all of them informative except the one quoted above which rather boggled me, as did those of the similar ones from the commentors to which you referred. While I will agree that in the early days of the internet and the various bulliten boards it was a bit more cumbersome to pick up where one left off, this is a problem I have NEVER encountered withtin confines of the last 15-20 years, give or take, and the ability of putting your computer or device to sleep or turning it completely off and back on again, that have made it possible to pick up a page exactly where I left off. Or is this a feature you don't utilize? I thought everyone did?






--

I must confess I don't know of anything that allows you to pick up where you left off in the middle of an on-line chapter (at least on both IOMFATS and Nifty) if you have to shut down the browser (or even the computer as a whole).  Granted, I don't claim to be any sort of Internet technical expert by any means, so for all I know there's some program out there that says, "You not only went to this webpage last, but this is where you stopped reading on it."  However, if there is, I certainly haven't heard of it, and as such am forced to either rely on my (sometimes faulty) memory or I have to manually write it down somewhere and hope I can quickly find my place again.



--
I don't know what to say here. I shut my device, either phone or computer, off and back on all the time and am able to pickup where I leftt off. Granted, I use Apple Mac Book and Apple iPhone as my default device, and have since I purchased my first Mac in 2006, so maybe that explains it. The Safari browser settings can be configured on both the phone and the laptop to in most cases restore a page to the exact scrolling location where it was when the device was shutdown. The only hitch I run into is that it is not possible to switch between my phone and my laptop without having to relocate where I left off on the other device. The only time that works out for me is if I'm reading a Kindle Book.

I've no clue whether this works on those substandard Microsoft products or not! 🤣

[Updated on: Wed, 18 August 2021 20:35]




“There's no grays, only white that's got grubby. I'm surprised you don't know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That's what sin is.” - Terry Pratchett
Re: Chapter Size  [message #78048 is a reply to message #78047] Thu, 19 August 2021 01:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bisexual_Guy is currently offline  Bisexual_Guy

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Location: USA Midwest
Registered: September 2015
Messages: 132



Quote:

Quote:

"Teddy wrote on Mon, 09 August 2021 15:07"

"Biff Spork wrote on Mon, 09 August 2021 08:36"
luvtwinks and Mark both pointed out that long chapters demand more of the online reader because if they are not finished at one go, then one has to waste time scrolling around to find where one stopped reading.

--

Thanks for your comments. I found all of them informative except the one quoted above which rather boggled me, as did those of the similar ones from the commentors to which you referred. While I will agree that in the early days of the internet and the various bulliten boards it was a bit more cumbersome to pick up where one left off, this is a problem I have NEVER encountered withtin confines of the last 15-20 years, give or take, and the ability of putting your computer or device to sleep or turning it completely off and back on again, that have made it possible to pick up a page exactly where I left off. Or is this a feature you don't utilize? I thought everyone did?

--

I must confess I don't know of anything that allows you to pick up where you left off in the middle of an on-line chapter (at least on both IOMFATS and Nifty) if you have to shut down the browser (or even the computer as a whole).  Granted, I don't claim to be any sort of Internet technical expert by any means, so for all I know there's some program out there that says, "You not only went to this webpage last, but this is where you stopped reading on it."  However, if there is, I certainly haven't heard of it, and as such am forced to either rely on my (sometimes faulty) memory or I have to manually write it down somewhere and hope I can quickly find my place again.



--
I don't know what to say here. I shut my device, either phone or computer, off and back on all the time and am able to pickup where I leftt off. Granted, I use Apple Mac Book and Apple iPhone as my default device, and have since I purchased my first Mac in 2006, so maybe that explains it. The Safari browser settings can be configured on both the phone and the laptop to in most cases restore a page to the exact scrolling location where it was when the device was shutdown. The only hitch I run into is that it is not possible to switch between my phone and my laptop without having to relocate where I left off on the other device. The only time that works out for me is if I'm reading a Kindle Book.

I've no clue whether this works on those substandard Microsoft products or not! 🤣

--
On all the smart phones I have had, and on some of the semi-smart phones, I have been able to suspend where I am and start back up in the same location, on mulltiple tabs.  And I only have Microsoft products now, though some of my early phones were non-Microsoft, and non-Apple as well.

On the other hand, I don't dog-ear pages in my physical books.  If I think I might not continue that book for a couple of months, I put a bookmark in it.  But unlike many persons, if I switch devices, or pick up a book up to a month after stopping in the middle, I can quickly find my place because i have a good memory for detail.  I am fortunate that way.

However, if I have to reboot for some reasons, it may take a minute or two to bring back up what I was reading, and find the place and continue.
Re: Chapter Size  [message #78082 is a reply to message #78047] Tue, 24 August 2021 00:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mark

Likes it here
Location: Earth
Registered: April 2013
Messages: 261



"Teddy wrote on Wed, 18 August 2021 14:33"

"Mark wrote on Sat, 14 August 2021 14:08"

"Teddy wrote on Mon, 09 August 2021 15:07"

"Biff Spork wrote on Mon, 09 August 2021 08:36"
luvtwinks and Mark both pointed out that long chapters demand more of the online reader because if they are not finished at one go, then one has to waste time scrolling around to find where one stopped reading.








--

Thanks for your comments. I found all of them informative except the one quoted above which rather boggled me, as did those of the similar ones from the commentors to which you referred. While I will agree that in the early days of the internet and the various bulliten boards it was a bit more cumbersome to pick up where one left off, this is a problem I have NEVER encountered withtin confines of the last 15-20 years, give or take, and the ability of putting your computer or device to sleep or turning it completely off and back on again, that have made it possible to pick up a page exactly where I left off. Or is this a feature you don't utilize? I thought everyone did?








--

I must confess I don't know of anything that allows you to pick up where you left off in the middle of an on-line chapter (at least on both IOMFATS and Nifty) if you have to shut down the browser (or even the computer as a whole).  Granted, I don't claim to be any sort of Internet technical expert by any means, so for all I know there's some program out there that says, "You not only went to this webpage last, but this is where you stopped reading on it."  However, if there is, I certainly haven't heard of it, and as such am forced to either rely on my (sometimes faulty) memory or I have to manually write it down somewhere and hope I can quickly find my place again.





--
I don't know what to say here. I shut my device, either phone or computer, off and back on all the time and am able to pickup where I leftt off. Granted, I use Apple Mac Book and Apple iPhone as my default device, and have since I purchased my first Mac in 2006, so maybe that explains it. The Safari browser settings can be configured on both the phone and the laptop to in most cases restore a page to the exact scrolling location where it was when the device was shutdown. The only hitch I run into is that it is not possible to switch between my phone and my laptop without having to relocate where I left off on the other device. The only time that works out for me is if I'm reading a Kindle Book.

I've no clue whether this works on those substandard Microsoft products or not! 🤣

--

As I've mentioned, I don't know if it's a brand thing (either of a specific computer or other internet-connected device, or of a specific web browser), or if it's just me not being tech savy enough to know how to do it even if it was available with the types of computer and web browers I use.  Either explanation is probably equally plausible.
Re: Chapter Size  [message #78083 is a reply to message #77861] Tue, 24 August 2021 19:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cole parker is currently offline  cole parker

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Location: California
Registered: July 2018
Messages: 26



This topic, chapter size, seems to have run the gamut.  I'd like to make some remarks about the topic itself, as I find it interesting, and ignore any rancor that's seeped in along the edges.

I'm not sure how anyone can have rules for this.  Chapters tend to regulate themsevles.  There are cetainly guidelines one can follow, but I'd guess any writer who's written more that a few stories has a feel for how to cut a story into chapters, and I doubt many of them worry about constraining themselves to something as arbitrary as word count.  'Let's see, I'ver reached 4,500 words, so I'd better end this chapter here, even though though I've got the two boys in bed and they've started some very interesting foreplay and now Jimmy is thinking about what comes next and they're both into it and excited and I'm about to take them to new levels of passion, but damn, some people think going on several more pages would be offensive and the mark of a poor writer, so I'd better just stop here and begin a new chapter.'

Uh, no.  I've found chapters more or less control themselves as to length.  As with most things in writing, there are general rules and guidelines and traditional ways of doing things, and a creative writer will find a way to ingnore them to tell the story he want's to tell.

That said, which isn't why I started writing this, but is something I feel strongly about, I'll get to my point.  

I've written a large number of stories.  A lot.  And every one of them has been an experiment for me.  Every one, I try something new, something I've never done before, something I want to test myself with to see if I can do it.  These things are hopefully not transparent to readers if they're done well, and may even seem trivial if explained.  I don't imagine I'm unique with this.  To write stories, you have to be a creative person, and creativity means breaking away from what's been done before, even if it's just something you've never done before, and trying something else, something new.

The reason I found this topic interesting was, what I decided to try in my latest story was to write it entirely in short chapters.  I was well into it when I found this discussion.  So I've read this out of curiosity.  I think the concensus agrees with my thoughts: you cannot put any limit on chapter size.  The writer has to do that as he writes.

And that's what I've tried to do with this latest story.  My question to myself going in was, can I srite a compelling story with chapters all under 2,000 words?  I didn't know, but thought I'd try.  I coupled that with something else I'd never done before, but that has nothing to do with chapter size and so I won't mention it.

The story has been written and is in editing at the moment.  Fifteen chapters, all under 2,000 words. So, how did I do?  Did I succeed in keeping each chapter under that limit?

No.  I did try, and was pretty successful at first.  The things is, as any writer knows, stories take on their own life.  You can control that to an extent, but you don't want to weaken the story by insisting you say in charge.  I got to the point in a couple of chapters where it was necessary to go over my intended word count.  I thought making the story the best I could was more important than my rather arbitrary desire to keep the word count per chapter down.  I could have done that, but no; story first,  my own challenge second.

So a few chapters exceed 2,000 words.  That's the way the worm squirms.  
Re: Chapter Size  [message #78085 is a reply to message #77861] Tue, 24 August 2021 20:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Biff Spork is currently offline  Biff Spork

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Location: Northwest Pacific
Registered: March 2021
Messages: 9



This has been an interesting discussion. It stimulated me to examine my latest story being serialized here - the upshot of which is that I decided to change the chapter structure by pushing a few of the shorter chapters together and in one case by joining three chapters together and cutting them in the middle into two chapters. I am seriously considering chopping one entire (short) chapter that doesn't quite meet my new criteria for what a chapter should consist of. In the past I never thought much about the nature and purpose of a chapter division and I now have a much clearer idea of what a chapter should be and will begin and end them more consciously. I still think raw length is important but more important than length is the content and for that I tend to look at the unities of time, place and action.  When a place, time period, or action sequence changes is a often a good place for a chapter break that feels "natural".

It's easier if one is writing for the N site - there, ideally (for many readers), every chapter starts with foreplay and ends with an orgasm....

[Updated on: Tue, 24 August 2021 20:54]




Consider becoming vegan. It's good for your health. It's kind and respectful to other animals. It's a good way to make an individual gesture towards averting the climate crisis. It's easy - if a lazy degenerate like me can do it, anyone can.
Re: Chapter Size  [message #78089 is a reply to message #78085] Thu, 26 August 2021 03:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Teddy is currently offline  Teddy

Really getting into it
Location: USA
Registered: October 2006
Messages: 474



"Biff Spork wrote on Tue, 24 August 2021 13:52"
It's easier if one is writing for the N site - there, ideally (for many readers), every chapter starts with foreplay and ends with an orgasm....

--
And yet, there are some awesome stories over there if one has the patience to kiss thousands of toads. I've found that I rarely do these days! Haha



“There's no grays, only white that's got grubby. I'm surprised you don't know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That's what sin is.” - Terry Pratchett
Re: Chapter Size  [message #78091 is a reply to message #78089] Thu, 26 August 2021 07:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ivor slipper is currently offline  ivor slipper

Likes it here

Registered: September 2013
Messages: 112



"Teddy wrote on Thu, 26 August 2021 03:12"

"Biff Spork wrote on Tue, 24 August 2021 13:52"
It's easier if one is writing for the N site - there, ideally (for many readers), every chapter starts with foreplay and ends with an orgasm....

--
And yet, there are some awesome stories over there if one has the patience to kiss thousands of toads. I've found that I rarely do these days! Haha

--
Searching for that traditinal British dish 'Toad in the Hole', Teddy?
Re: Chapter Size  [message #78093 is a reply to message #78091] Thu, 26 August 2021 20:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Teddy is currently offline  Teddy

Really getting into it
Location: USA
Registered: October 2006
Messages: 474



"ivor slipper wrote on Thu, 26 August 2021 00:51"
Searching for that traditinal British dish 'Toad in the Hole', Teddy?

--
No clue what that is so looked it up. I'll be over yours for breakfast Saturday morning!



“There's no grays, only white that's got grubby. I'm surprised you don't know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That's what sin is.” - Terry Pratchett
Re: Chapter Size  [message #78094 is a reply to message #78083] Fri, 27 August 2021 02:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mark

Likes it here
Location: Earth
Registered: April 2013
Messages: 261



"cole parker wrote on Tue, 24 August 2021 13:21"

I'm not sure how anyone can have rules for this.  Chapters tend to regulate themsevles.  There are cetainly guidelines one can follow, but I'd guess any writer who's written more that a few stories has a feel for how to cut a story into chapters, and I doubt many of them worry about constraining themselves to something as arbitrary as word count.  'Let's see, I'ver reached 4,500 words, so I'd better end this chapter here, even though though I've got the two boys in bed and they've started some very interesting foreplay and now Jimmy is thinking about what comes next and they're both into it and excited and I'm about to take them to new levels of passion, but damn, some people think going on several more pages would be offensive and the mark of a poor writer, so I'd better just stop here and begin a new chapter.'



--

I think this sums it up about as good as anything I can really think of at this point.  Whatever chapter length that works best for the specific story in question is the "correct" length.  Sometimes this might mean that some stories have chapters are longer; others have chapters that are shorter.  Or different chapters in the same story can be of noticeably different lengths that vary from chapter to chapter.  I'm not going to say that there's no such thing as a "wrong" chapter lenght, but at the same time I think there can be a lot of leeway on the subject.

[Updated on: Fri, 27 August 2021 02:38]

Re: Chapter Size  [message #78097 is a reply to message #78094] Sat, 28 August 2021 05:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
James K is currently offline  James K

Getting started

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Messages: 26



Looking at the first three current stories, the chapter lengths are short, medium, and long (Oliver). What is the one big difference between the three? The one with a long chapter has section breaks. If you can cut a chapter with section breaks, you can cut a chapter's length, can't you? Where's the difference? The previous example given of cutting off a scene is somewhat ridiculous, I don't think that is a serious example. It seems self evident that longer chapters have section breaks. Perhaps the question to ask is when does a section break become a new chapter? It would appear quite easy to break the longer chapter. 

I think ignoring chapter size is ignoring your readers  https://self-publishingschool.com/how-many-chapters-in-a-nov el/  
Most experts agree that 3,000-5,000 words per chapter is a good guideline to follow.
Re: Chapter Size  [message #78098 is a reply to message #78097] Sat, 28 August 2021 19:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
joecasey is currently offline  joecasey

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Location: American Midwest
Registered: December 2017
Messages: 31



I do agree with the use of section breaks; it's annoying to read text (usually e-text, sometimes printed text) where section breaks are absent, either through bad formatting or bad editing. I have to go back and mentally insert that break to make the passage make sense. I try to use section breaks when I write; I used to use a solid dot (• or alt opt 8 on the Mac) and now use a double dash (--). Unfortunately, on this site, either of those becomes some kind of largish, page-spanning dingbat ... at least on my own stories. I've tried to use a hard return to create a blank line between passages, but that sometimes gets lost in the formatting and I end up with no section breaks at all.

I've been wondering if there is a corollary to chapter size, and that is this: the overall length of a work. There was recently on this site a work that came in at a little over 500,000 words, and each chapter was between 15,000 and 19,000 words in length. I have no problem with longer works, but one wonders if they might work better as two (or three) separate novels, or if the tale could be told a little more economically. There was, on another site, an author who went into great (excessive, almost obsessive) detail about the physical layout of a particular place or the design parameters of a certain type of train, none of which really affected the story one way or the other. Research can inform your story; it doesn't and shouldn't necessarily BE the story.
Re: Chapter Size  [message #78099 is a reply to message #78097] Sat, 28 August 2021 21:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13604



"James K wrote on Sat, 28 August 2021 06:42"
Looking at the first three current stories, the chapter lengths are short, medium, and long (Oliver). What is the one big difference between the three? The one with a long chapter has section breaks. If you can cut a chapter with section breaks, you can cut a chapter's length, can't you? Where's the difference? The previous example given of cutting off a scene is somewhat ridiculous, I don't think that is a serious example. It seems self evident that longer chapters have section breaks. Perhaps the question to ask is when does a section break become a new chapter? It would appear quite easy to break the longer chapter. 

I think ignoring chapter size is ignoring your readers  https://self-publishingschool.com/how-many-chapters-in-a-nov el/  [/font-size]Most experts agree that 3,000-5,000 words per chapter is a good guideline to follow.

--
Saying it often does not make it correct. It's simply an opinion.

Putting it in bold face type does not make it correct. It's simply an opinion.

How about writing something for the next challenge? Give us the benefit of your skill, not simply your opinion



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Chapter Size  [message #78100 is a reply to message #78099] Sun, 29 August 2021 05:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
James K is currently offline  James K

Getting started

Registered: August 2021
Messages: 26



It appears to be a widespread opinion, the bold type is copied from the article. It would be a challenge to write for your challenge, but the picture of young boys limits the theme and doesn't inspire me. Have you written yourself for one of these challenges? The same argument holds, it's easy to put up picture challenges, much harder to write using them, but you're halfway there as you chose the picture! If you write a story, I will too... 3000 words?
Re: Chapter Size  [message #78101 is a reply to message #78100] Sun, 29 August 2021 07:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13604



It's meant to be a challenge. You are also meant to be able to change the ages to suit your protagonists

I've written for some, not for others. It depends on inspiration. If and when I write I will be limited by the story, not by an artificially imposed restriction on length.



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Chapter Size  [message #78102 is a reply to message #78097] Sun, 29 August 2021 10:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Pedro

Toe is in the water

Registered: March 2014
Messages: 84



"James K wrote on Sat, 28 August 2021 05:42"

I think ignoring chapter size is ignoring your readers  https://self-publishingschool.com/how-many-chapters-in-a-nov el/  [/font-size]Most experts agree that 3,000-5,000 words per chapter is a good guideline to follow.

--
The relevant word here is one that has not been highlighted  - guideline. Significantly, the word used is 'guideline' not  'rule'.

As far as this whole topic is concerned, I feel the meat has been presented in all the previous posts and we are now chewing on the bone to no further benefit aside from exercising our jaws.

I could summarise all of the above with reference to author's objectives, reader's expectations and other factors, but perhaps it is simpler to use an expression both Yorkshire and Lancashire agree on:

"There's no pleasing some folk."



Pedro
Re: Chapter Size  [message #78103 is a reply to message #78102] Sun, 29 August 2021 14:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

Has no life at all
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Messages: 13604



'appen!



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Chapter Size  [message #78104 is a reply to message #78102] Sun, 29 August 2021 17:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mark

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Location: Earth
Registered: April 2013
Messages: 261



"Pedro wrote on Sun, 29 August 2021 04:02"

As far as this whole topic is concerned, I feel the meat has been presented in all the previous posts and we are now chewing on the bone to no further benefit aside from exercising our jaws.

I could summarise all of the above with reference to author's objectives, reader's expectations and other factors, but perhaps it is simpler to use an expression both Yorkshire and Lancashire agree on:

"There's no pleasing some folk."


--

Yes, it seems we have said about as much as can be reasonably said on the subject.  Anything else...well, I guess we shall just have to agree to disagree.
Re: Chapter Size  [message #78106 is a reply to message #78048] Mon, 30 August 2021 00:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Teddy is currently offline  Teddy

Really getting into it
Location: USA
Registered: October 2006
Messages: 474



"Bisexual_Guy wrote on Wed, 18 August 2021 18:37"
But unlike many persons, if I switch devices, or pick up a book up to a month after stopping in the middle, I can quickly find my place because i have a good memory for detail.  I am fortunate that way.

--
Like you, I happen to be blessed with this ability to quickly locate a reading locatiton whether reading a physical book or when reading on a device I generally don't use, or if the browser tab was closed for some reason and won't open up to my current scrolling location. It's no big deal for me in that way, but my sister, who's an avid reader, gets very frustrated when she loses her place and spends what seems to be an inordinate amount of time finding her place again.



“There's no grays, only white that's got grubby. I'm surprised you don't know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That's what sin is.” - Terry Pratchett
Re: Chapter Size  [message #78108 is a reply to message #78102] Mon, 30 August 2021 00:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Teddy is currently offline  Teddy

Really getting into it
Location: USA
Registered: October 2006
Messages: 474



"Pedro wrote on Sun, 29 August 2021 03:02"

"There's no pleasing some folk."

--
And let that be the underscore for this topic! Yay Pedro! haha

[Updated on: Mon, 30 August 2021 00:44]




“There's no grays, only white that's got grubby. I'm surprised you don't know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That's what sin is.” - Terry Pratchett
Re: Chapter Size  [message #78110 is a reply to message #78108] Mon, 30 August 2021 06:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
James K is currently offline  James K

Getting started

Registered: August 2021
Messages: 26



Or the underscore could be: you can't teach an old dog new tricks!
Re: Chapter Size  [message #78111 is a reply to message #78110] Mon, 30 August 2021 08:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13604



"Petard has a rather humorous ancestry having been derived from the Middle French word péterwhich meant to break wind, from Old French pet for a fart, which originally came from Latin, pedere to break wind. The bomb got its name because its sound was fart-like." ~ Courtesy of Madrigal Communications.



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Chapter Size  [message #78114 is a reply to message #78097] Mon, 30 August 2021 17:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bisexual_Guy is currently offline  Bisexual_Guy

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Registered: September 2015
Messages: 132



"James K wrote on Sat, 28 August 2021 05:42"
Looking at the first three current stories, the chapter lengths are short, medium, and long (Oliver). What is the one big difference between the three? The one with a long chapter has section breaks. If you can cut a chapter with section breaks, you can cut a chapter's length, can't you? Where's the difference? The previous example given of cutting off a scene is somewhat ridiculous, I don't think that is a serious example. It seems self evident that longer chapters have section breaks. Perhaps the question to ask is when does a section break become a new chapter? It would appear quite easy to break the longer chapter. 

I think ignoring chapter size is ignoring your readers  https://self-publishingschool.com/how-many-chapters-in-a-nov el/  [/font-size]Most experts agree that 3,000-5,000 words per chapter is a good guideline to follow.

--
I went to the article you have listed there.  The author is listed as "Connie Fogle."  Nice-looking lady.  She has a blog.

I went to Amazon to see what books she has published, since she is an author -- of a blog.  (And very well-written blogs, true.)  There is not a Connie Fogle listed as having published any books which are available through Amazon dot com.

The examples listed on chapter size in the article?  The chapter sizes average more than 5,000 words on some works, less on others.  Her suggestions are well written; but many successful authors have books averaging MORE than 5,000 words in a chapter.

If a story appeals to me, I will read it, whether the chapters are 100 words or 50,000 words.  
Re: Chapter Size  [message #78115 is a reply to message #78114] Tue, 31 August 2021 01:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mark

Likes it here
Location: Earth
Registered: April 2013
Messages: 261



I write my stories for me.  I write them in the way that I feel that they should be written, and that includes the length of the chapters.  If I try to change things just because someone with no vested interet in my stories thinks that I'm doing it "wrong" somehow, then that is how I am doing a disservice to anyone else who wishes to read what I have written.  It has nothing to do with whether or not I am capable of (or even need to) learn new tricks.  When it comes to my stories, I am the author, and therefore I, and I alone, am best qualified by far to dictate how my stories are presented to the reading public for consideration.  If there is anyone who refuses to accept that, then it is not I who is the old dog incapable of learning new tricks.
Re: Chapter Size  [message #78118 is a reply to message #78115] Tue, 31 August 2021 05:48 Go to previous message
James K is currently offline  James K

Getting started

Registered: August 2021
Messages: 26



No one should get angry, there is nothing to defend, nor something to triumph. This is just a discussion... nothing more... Here is a love song to cheer us along.

You talk about gardens and talk about Prague
You talk about artists' imitations of life and love
You talk about the "grander things" and we talk about you
But I ask how you feel and you can't even think it through

You talk about your brothers and future happenings
You ask me what I think and I just smile because they're only little things
You talk about the color schemes in the hotel rooms of dark and light
But I ask you could you live with me and you just kiss me goodnight

So, I won't advertise that I love you
And I won't tell you how your smile lights up the room
You can just say that you're impressed with my rhythm
Or something like that
And I won't ask anything again anytime soon

You talk about bondage while I stare at the moon
And you talk about poets' sonnets and summarize their doom
You talk of the scheme of things where everything goes
But I ask you am I for you and you smile and say, "who knows?"

So, I won't advertise that I love you
And I won't tell you how your smile lights up the room
You can just say that you're impressed with my rhythm
Or something like that
And I won't ask anything again anytime soon

So I won't pour my heart out and break when you don't notice
And I won't tell you how your loving sets me free
You can just stick to the technicalities
And I'll just know that I write for me

Amanda Somerville.
https://youtu.be/OGlEyIgSguc


[Updated on: Tue, 31 August 2021 06:01]

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