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Hey yall. Just a little short note updatey thing in mylife. For all you who are not familiar with World Vision they are a charety organization type place. Every year they sponser a 30 hour famine that raises money to help people who have no money.
So my youth group id this last year. I spent 29 and a half of the 30 hours writing a chemistry paper (12 pages due Monday) I started it that friday.  Oh course that is just my style but whatever.
This year once again it is time for all my friends and I to fast for 30 hours. Should be fun. I have a history paper to write this time Also Friday Night we are going to the movies to see the Passion. So if any of you are interested in what im doing check out http://www.30hourfamine.org or world visions web site at http://www.worldvision.org They are uber cool places
Peace and Trees
Andy
Why are you wearing that stupid man suit?
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I remember our youth group (which was quite large and active) had a similar famine event each year, with an added element to educate about world hunger. 10% of the group got to eat whatever they wanted during the 48 hour time period, and believe me the leaders went all out to provide mouthwatering and wonderful food in buffet-type arrangements for optimal "free-grazing". The next 25% got to eat what was assigned by the leaders, which was ALMOST enough to feel satisfied. The rest of the group had no rights to eat anything except what they could beg from those who had food to eat. What amount you ended up with was determined by lot. Amazingly, the fortunate ones who could eat all they want rarely could be convinced to procure food for the "hungry"...they enjoyed being "haves"...
And about that movie...I have been reading some very disturbing and critical reviews about it. Mel Gibson is a very conservative Catholic, and the movie has been called anti-Jewish by many. It's also focused on all the torture and scourging and slow-motion on nailing hands and feet, etc. so is not for the depressed or faint-hearted. I'm having too much trouble being unable to stomach fundamentalist Christian types right now, so I'm not planning to ever see it myself...but that's just me.
"Always forgive your enemies...nothing annoys them quite so much." Oscar Wilde
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I just finished the fast. I have just a few thoughts about it.
we were standing outside of Shoprite and A&P to try and raise some money (a real common thing around here). Well we got a lot of diffrnet reactions. I stood out there for 5 hours and we raised 750 dollars. Which is very very cool. However I'm still thinking about what one woman said to us. She stopped in front of us asked if we were fasting. We said yes. She said thats so wrong, and that it was unhealthy. We asked her if we looked unhealthy. She said it was wrong and aweful of us and wanted to know what we were trying to prove. At that we told her we weren't trying to prove anything at all. She once again told us how wrong and bad we were and walked away shaking her head saying that if she was our mother she would never have let us do such a stupid thing.
It's weird. The night before we went to see the Passion of the Christ (which I thought was excellent btw) In the movie they used one of many lines from the bible, where Jesus says you will be persecuted as I was persecuted or somethign along those lines. I guess we expected some people to be against what we were doing but it was still rough to need to stand there and take this abuse when all your trying to do is something that you think is worthful and meaningful.
I mean I am used to people not likeing what I do or what I say. Normally I can accept that, ok these people just don't like me for whatever reason. It was just rally hard for the three of us to stand there and try to be positive and defend what we are doing while under attack especially from adults, the people we are looking for help and support from. ben Andy and I were out there and I dunno it was just rough. We got quite a few people like that and it was very awkward and I have completely forgotten my point and am just rambling sorry.
Ok here we go point 2. Someone asked me today why we do a 30 hour famine, not a 48 hour famine or somehting longer. They seemed to think that we should try for a longer famine and even then we could never even fathom what most of the world expieriances every day. I realized tonight how true that really was. We broke the fast with communion like normal. Then we had two Quiznos subs one we bought one was donated (the 6 ft variety). We also had 3 pizzas (which the place gave us a discount on). We had just fasted for 30 hours and then there was a mad rush to the food becuase everyone needed to get their food first. even in the midst of all this cultural awareness hunger pain stuff just as expected before long the complaints began to roll in.
" I only eat pizza from Tony's" "Ewwwww why do we have turkey subs I wanted Bologna" "Onions yuck! I hate onions" "This is so gross I have Wendy's at home I will jsut eat that" "Well I could eat a sub but all I would eat is the roll becuase everything else is just nasty" "Why did we get pepperoni pizza all I wanted was cheese." Why did we get two subs and only 3 pizzas we need more pizza this is just not fair"
Now a nice lady at our church paid out of her own pocket for all of our food so I foudn that last comment unreasonable. Especially since the pizzas cost over 8 dollars a pie... That was with a discount they gave us for being a church group.
It's just I guess I alwasy hope for miricles. The point of fasting is to remind everyone how much they really have, how truthfully we have far more then we ever need. Yet these kids can't get past their own stupid food problems and complaints. I am truly dissgusted by that. My mom picked me up and I told her this as we drove home. She told me they are just tired and cranky but I cannot stand that sort of attitude. It is one thing to not 4eat food you like it is another to complain the whole time in font of the people who graciously are providing you with food. I am sorry that just makes me very very sad.
Peace and Trees
Andy
Why are you wearing that stupid man suit?
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personally, the word 'famine' holds negative connotations with me. and not really "negative" -- that's not quite what i mean .. but "famine" to me means like, 72 hours if not more. anything less than that i consider more of a "mild inconvenience, hunger-wise" rather than famine.
still, i understand the gist of it for religious/spiritual purposes, and find it really lame that woman came at you like that. i completely commend your cause, and ... wow. i'll hold my tongue on the food pickiness of your other friends after a mere 30 hours. it's amazing how quick the lesson and reason of fasting in the first place was lost on them. :-/
my void does not want.
-- 2.13.61.
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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If these people have no money, would not the 30 hours be better spent if they were used to find the moneyless people gainful employment? by doing this you are thus giving them a boost up in life rather than a hand out?
If there are so many willing to provide them with what they need then there is no motivation for them to better themselves.
Just my opinion.
Marc
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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thats not what my post had been about. i ad wanted opnions on peoples actions not on wha we were doing. anyway i hear its hard to get jobs in third world countres. not many around.
Why are you wearing that stupid man suit?
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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If people can walk 500 miles to get to a refugee center then they can walk to where there are jobs.
At the store Kevin works at the Mall, doring the winter the store would hand out $10.00 coupons to the first 50 or so patrons.
If you drove past the Mall parking lot at 4am it looked like a soup kitchen like in the depression.
The sad thing was that it was 20 below zero and you had to purchase a minimum amount to redeem the coupon.
To me the effort is not worth the gain.
Just as for a free meal, the gain is not worth the effort.
Like the proverb says.... Give a man a fish and he eats once.... Teach a man to fish and the family eats every day.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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You're WRONG! Got it? No, probably not. You always think you're grim and truthful, and you somehow can't or won't see things from other people's point of view.
Andy was talking about third world hunger, which you skipped over. Your example is totally irrelevant to this thread.
Millions of people, perhaps a billion, don't have access to work and don't have access to food. No work even tho they'd give up family life for a year at a time to go do it if they could, no food to be bought even if a few coins can be scraped up, no life force for walking even if there were some place to go, no water in many places.
Got it?
Now, let good people do what they like to help those less fortunate then themselves, and you go do whatever you do to feel good about yourself.
Sorry, everybody else. I'm pissed off and couldn't confine it to a private email.
Now I'll try and go back to my usual policy of trying not to be goaded by Marc any more. Even tho I predict he'll try to have the last word as he usually does.
"Always forgive your enemies...nothing annoys them quite so much." Oscar Wilde
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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And what about the 83% administration cost allocated to these charities?
What about the government corruption that sends the bulk of what the poor are intended into the black market?
Don't go there with me David!
I've seen it first hand and couldn't believe the salaries and expence accounts these so called do gooders get!
If people want to help then help, where it counts. Grassroots efforts to help are fine but do NOT tell me that these charities do all they purport to do.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Oh David, about that last comment. Well you know what I am thinking.
Don't you?
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13818
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It seems to me to be something that one CAN do when one can do nothing else.
It actually hurts to do it, and that makes it somewhat more worthwhile.
Those inthe world with cash cannot feel exactly what those withoiut feel, but panic is still there when cash and food cut off.
We all give something back in our own way.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13818
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Now, what if the money raised has been used to buy a bunch of fishing nets?
The charities are not squeaky clean. The governments where they work are by no means clean (Look at Ethiopia, for example), and people do have careers in the charities and make money.
There is a choice, though, of where and how one wishes to give support. Andy chose to support World Vision. I for my part do not support this charity. Neither of us is right, nor wrong. And neither of us need give reasons about our support or lack thereof.
We are looking at something far more basic, surely, that charitable misuse and government appropriation. We ar elooking at a teenage boy in a group of teenage kids doing something with a purpose and a social conscience. Kicking that is a little horrid. And this is even with the stats you quote and your first hand experience. The main thing is these kids did something.
Now fasting may be a wise or unwise act. The charity may or may not be great. The location where the aid is sent may or may not be ciorrupt. But they acted. And made a difference.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13818
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He may or may not be wrong. That doesn't mean you are right to post in this direct and attacking manner. Nor does it mean that any of his replies to you are likely to be temperate. Please, both of you, cease.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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The effort was not at all in question.
Kids trying to do good is... well.... good.
However. Adults that solicit kids to go without food for the sake of raising cash in front of a grocery store (by instilling a sense of guilt) is at best questionable.
If attention to world hunger is desired then a simple demonstration in a public place would probably have accomplished a great deal more.
After all, hitting up a few old ladies for spare change is hardly note of rememberance.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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Just a little information. Use it however you wish.
World vision total income 2003 - $525,350,000
expenses for fund raising and adin. costs - $28,769,000 or about 16% of income.
For a more detailed look check out: http://www.give.org/reports/care_dyn.asp?462
This site rates MOST charities that are active in the U.S.
(\\__/) And if you don't believe The sun will rise
(='.'=) Stand alone and greet The coming night
(")_(") In the last remaining light. (C. Cornell)
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No apology necessary, David.
It never ceases to amaze me how easy it is for the "haves" to comment negatively on the "have-nots" (the airwaves in the USA are super-saturated with such chronic misanthropes). As another old proverb says, "Count your blessings!"
We do not remember days...we remember moments.
Cesare Pavese
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That's just it, though, Marc.
Rather than praise Andy and his friends for wanting to do something positive and then actually follow through on it (however questionable you feel it may be), you chose to cut him down instead (and only after being chastised for it do you have anything nice to say about it).
I'm no psychologist (I'll leave that up to professionals like David); but this seems to me to be just the latest chapter in what has been a long-running pattern of behavior on your part; and it further seems your main target is those of Andy's generation (those for whom this message board is particularly meant to benefit).
By your own logic, Marc, it wouldn't make any difference one way or another if anybody left this place. Perhaps you should take your own advice.
Sorry, Tim.
We do not remember days...we remember moments.
Cesare Pavese
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Fine,
I shall do as you request.
I was wondering how long it would take for one of the chosen few to ask me to leave.
Goodbye.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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I am neither "chosen" nor "one of a few".
What I am, Marc, is somebody who has had his fill of watching people he cares about (people who, for some strange reason, return those feelings) being made the target of your insecurities. The fact that they (minors) comport themselves here with so much more maturity and decorum than you (an adult) choose to display says so much about them (and so little about you).
Having said that, I must hasten to add that I'm not asking you to do anything (that's not my place); I am merely suggesting you practice what you preach.
We do not remember days...we remember moments.
Cesare Pavese
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ch.oo.lo
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Toe is in the water |
Location: Michigan, USA
Registered: August 2003
Messages: 49
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I (one of the minors) think that Marc is one of the most mature people on here. Maybe it's because i've agreed with everything he's said so far, but even if i didn't he still composes the majority of his arguments in a very mature, clear and concise way. Granted, most people don't agree with what he says, but at least he says it and that's more than some do (including myself, but he does a good enough job inadvertantly speaking for me).
-Jeanne
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