I expect simple behaviours here. Friendship, and love. Any advice should be from the perspective of the person asking, not the person giving! We have had to make new membership moderated to combat the huge number of spammers who register
Location: the burning former USofA
Registered: July 2010
Messages: 399
Davy & Stu (UK 2006) Gay Film. Intensity of adolescent romance & forbidden love. http://youtu.be/ivQy7ZpnuVo
I have nothing to add, other than I don't post much, so maybe it's worth your fifteen minutes. It was worth mine. And it's YouTube, too. I spend more time doing dishes than YouTube, but it was highly recommended.
The accents seem fake, but well enough done to get out of the way, at least to this anglophile Yank.
The URL goes to the video, I don't know why it is youtu.be though. Here's the actual URL
(edited to embed the movie - timmy)]
[Updated on: Thu, 24 January 2013 11:27] by Moderator
I might have liked this more if it didn't appear to reinforce the stereotype that a gay relationship mirrors a straight relationship, with a softer-sensitive-weaker partner who wants to be cared for and protected by a stronger, more masculine partner. Some straight people think this stereotype is the 'norm' and can accept or understand a gay relationship only when it mirrors the male/female roles of a straight relationship.
Of course, there are gay relationships that match the stereotype, but are they really typical? Suppose a young gay person is just beginning to accept his sexuality and that he's a butch/masculine type who's attracted to a similar butch/masculine type. He doesn't want to play a feminine role and doesn't want a partner who plays a feminine role. He doesn't want to be either a protector or be the one protected. Won't he be confused and unhappy if he thinks that such a stereotype is the 'norm' for a gay relationship and that he can't fit in with that stereotype?
That's why, though I liked the short film, it left me feeling a bit uneasy.
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13772
"Kitzyma wrote on Thu, 24 January 2013 11:43"
I might have liked this more if it didn't appear to reinforce the stereotype that a gay relationship mirrors a straight relationship, with a softer-sensitive-weaker partner who wants to be cared for and protected by a stronger, more masculine partner. Some straight people think this stereotype is the 'norm' and can accept or understand a gay relationship only when it mirrors the male/female roles of a straight relationship.
--But which was the real weaker party? Which the stronger? A supposedly equal relationship is rarely equal in life
--But which was the real weaker party? Which the stronger? A supposedly equal relationship is rarely equal in life
--
The weaker/stronger aspects were just a small part of the stereotype in the film. There was a clear portrayal of one boy being quite sensitive/feminine and the other being gruffer and looking more masculine. There are loads of telegraphed 'clues' to the differences between them.
SPOILER ALERT!!!
e.g. The smaller teen sets afloat a raft decorated with pretty coloured flowers, clearly showing his more feminine side. Then the bigger teen turns up wearing a rugby kit, later talking about the muddy rugby field. The smaller one says he was dreaming about being a child in the butch boy's arms. The wimpy smaller boy appears to be scared the dark and of bog-monsters but is reassured by the braver masculine boy. The masculine boy, who shows signs of five o'clock shaddow is aggressive and physically dominates the other, who looks as if he doesn't yet shave. etc.
Location: the burning former USofA
Registered: July 2010
Messages: 399
Jimminy, Kit. It's not like it's the only gay-themed video in existence and everyone is going to form their opinions of every gay person from it.
It's a touching, sweet, sensitive little piece, not the only video of it's kind ever to exist.
You do have good points, though. It was a very 'fem/butch' pairing, but then, many are.
And in the end, who pushed who against the tree and put an end to the pussy-footing around and had the strength and daring to physically broach the topic?
My only real complaint are the accents. They just seem stronger at times, weaker at other times, and I usually take that as the actor slipping out of the accent. But then, with so many 'worldly' television and movie influences, I guess anyone's accent is at risk of being impure anymore.
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13772
To me the accents seemed genuine, though it appeared that they tried to tone them down at times. It took me a while to work put with precision if they were Irish or Scots.
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13772
The old butch/Fem thing is a lovely myth, but one half of a couple often takes the lead in one are and the other in another. An example might be our friends who came round last night. The are separated by 10 years. Older one is 59 and takes the lead socially, younger takes the lead in their commercial life (they run a highly successful catering establishment). Older and younger are equally both or equally fem except at times, and they swap roles often. The more fem of the two is the more dominant.
I didn't see the film in the terms I think you did. I saw a gentle young man who needed his soulmate, and yet who was very much the dominant one in the relationship. I'm attracted to him and not rugby boy, and that may colour my vision of the piece. But, had rugby boy been blond, and the other brunette, who knows?
Location: the burning former USofA
Registered: July 2010
Messages: 399
I found the accents interesting, and they didn't distract. They just seemed to change at times, just a little, and that usually triggers my 'coached' flag.
Loves them, by the way. It's somewhat similar to the Character David in Circle 2. I should point to it from the story as a reference. Hmm.
I don't understand the attraction reaction in humans anyway, but why UK accents are so hot to me seems almost worrisome.
I found both guys adorable. If I HAD to choose, I guess the little guy. I've leaned toward top more than bottom my entire 'career'. Or should I phrase it, during most of my 'choice of lifestyle'.
Sometimes I just want to slap people who try to insist they are sure it's all just a choice. All them time. For everyone. Grrr.
BTW, Ive revamped my site recently. If you haven't been there in a while, it's changed.
And Circle 2 is nearing completion, only one final editor, the really thorough one, still going through it, about three-fifths done.
Let me know when you want next chapters, Tim.
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13772
Any time they are ready, send them through
Those accents are hard to coach. We have accents that are easy to mimic, usually as a caricature, but those are tough to achieve.
Now I'd love to be bottom to the smaller one's top! Or to do anything he wanted! Odd, is ot not, how we paint our own thoughts, desires and needs onto the things we see
I didn't get most of the dialog - between poor hearing and lack of experience with the accent, a lot of it was beyond me. (I'm going to try watching it again at some point with my good headphones and see if clearer sound helps any.)
Since I can't add anything meaningful to the discussion of accents, did anyone else note the credit for a "Dialect Coach"?
Yes, Smokr, you're right that perhaps I made too much of this. It's probably a fault, but I tend to analyse (over-analyse?) things that interest me. I've been that way since I was a small child, irritating the hell out of the adults by constantly asking how, why, etc. No doubt that's why I studied sciences. Anyway, it could be taken as a compliment to the film that it interested me enough look more closely at it.
My mentioning strong/weak at the start of my comments on the video were probably a tactical error in that it seems to have thrown a smokescreen over my real point, which was the overly obvious masculine-feminine roles of the boys. Also, I should have made it clear from the start that I was referring to physical strength. Davey is probably emotionally stronger and in his own way takes the lead, just as in straight relationships, women are often emotionally stronger and take the lead. Indeed, I wonder how many men could go through the pain of childbirth once and still go on to have another child.
Furthermore, I've nothing against the feminine qualities of Davey. My personal preference is for the softer features and gentleness of an almost androgenous type, and I fancy Davey much more than Stu. So my uneasiness was with the film as a whole, and not with the character of Davey. Perhaps that response has been conditioned by the times I've experienced straights say about a gay couple 'I wonder which is the wife', or 'I can see who's the girlie one of the pair'.
It irritates me that straight people often seem to need to 'interpret' a gay relationship in terms of their own masculine-feminine relationships. Many seem incapable of understanding that a gay relationship doesn't HAVE to follow the hetero stereotype. Of course, some gay couples do indeed contain a masculine-type and a more feminine type. However, in my own experience here in the UK they are by no means the majority, and there are at least as many couples in which both partners are butch or both 'fem'. And, as we know, the apparent masculinity does not predict who is 'top' or 'bottom' during sex.
It was no less viable for the film to have a butch boy and a fem boy than two butch or two fems, even though in my experience a lage proportion of gay people are just ordinary guys who are neither particularly masculine nor particularly feminine. In this video the boys were toward the extreme ends of the masculine-feminine spectrum, and for me, the film would be more realistic and satisfying if it featured two more ordinary teens.
Even with that in mind, it wasn't the fact that the film makers decided to have a very masculine teen and a much more feminine teen that made me uneasy and reduced my enjoyment, it was the fact that they emphasised the masculinity difference so heavily. I felt like I was being beaten over the head with examples of the stereotyping. Not only was there a big physical difference and a difference in the way they spoke, but they hammered home the other contrasts, e.g. rugby versus flowers, bravery versus fear of dark, etc etc. Actually, at one stage I wondered if it was, like my story, Cliche, intended to be a parody, in this case collecting as many of all the cliched stereotypes as possible.
Sadly, I decided that it wasn't humorous enough to be a parody, and I wondered what message a naive teen, struggling with his sexuality, might get from it.
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13772
I have been given more information about Travis Walters, Davy. His accent was coached (and he did a fine job), and I am afraid the young actor died in 2012
Location: the burning former USofA
Registered: July 2010
Messages: 399
Oh, Timmy, you #&$^%!
You always dig too deep. He was in some film school or something in my head until you revealed the horrible truth. Though it was cool to find out he was the pesky little brother in Last Starfighter. It was always a favorite from it's release, and I had emotional ties to the first few viewings as well when I was a teen. Wow, in fact, I think I've already mentioned it in The Circle or C2. I hope so If not, in three for sure, and sub-featured. I had the VHS until I got rid of all my VHS tapes. In fact, I'm sure it wasn't just my second or third copy of it. I still have a VCD copy and a DVD of it. I even have the remastered re-release version. And no, it's not mint in box.
So, good and bad. But still so sad. Damn.
And he was only sixteen in that film? So he wasn't so much smallish, as actually youngish. The other guy now seems the 'older bloke' instead of the year-peer I saw previously.
And yes, Kit, we all have and will again do exactly all of that. In all kinds of mixtures and proportions, and far more often that we'd like. Oh well. What makes you a standout enough to end up sticking around here is that you not only saw it, you admitted it, and re-evaluated the original points and adjusted where you saw fit. And then carried on in an orderly and coherent way about it all.
And I think I took the heavy punning on the top/bottom as more about fem/butch, and overdone for the reveal at the end that the fem is more resolute than the butch about 'making the move.' It wasn't subtle to make it more obvious for those who don't understand it, the majority of straights. A bold woman is one thing, and rare enough, but a bold fem fag? And the butch did preen first, making him late, and he didn't reveal that, the fem discovered it.
And it was just plain wonderful. And well acted. And I could almost smell the peat bog. Though I've never smelled one outside the US and know it's not right, it's what I know as boggy.
sigh
Anyway, off to muck about chapter 18 of C2 and then mozy into the west.
So that was little Louis from Last Starfighter. OMFG. And he's already gone! I need uplifting, and chapter 18 isn't the right thing right now. No, it's perfect for it. Oh, gawd, a night of sad news after such a cool discovery. Coming out of that discovery. Gah!
18 is going to end up one of those chapters some will sigh and mumble, "oh, dear, he went and got all moody again and now Alex is screwed because of it, again."
It was written moody and pissy in parts because it was, long before I took out this sad news on it. ON THE RECORD.
lol
I blame you Timmy!
LOL
J/K
Blessings and rest in peace, little Louis. Travis Walters. Hachy... cool.
I highly recommend Last Starfighter to any sci-fi fans! It's old and dated, and wasn't a blockbuster when it was new, but it was better than many blockbusters, then and since. And it's computer graphics were extraordinary then. No models on green, digital transfers, etc. 100$ computer modeling and rendering. With live action overlays and cutouts. And the sound was cool, too.
Sigh.
Nite Travis, though it's so late in coming. You made me and a lot of people I know very happy many times by shining like you did! He was the perfect, pesky, perky, nosy, caring little brother. And don't get me started on Lance Guest! For years!
Location: the burning former USofA
Registered: July 2010
Messages: 399
Couldn't help myself. Found this. http:// my.hsj.org/Schools/Newspaper/tabid/100/view/frontpage/school id/4765/articleid/542176/newspaperid/5102/In_Memoriam__Travi s_Walters.aspx
Dang it. Burned too bright to last too long. And very private. NO details about his death. At home, suddenly, with family. If that's how they want it, I can respect that.
He seemed to be as happy as he deserved. Just for too short a time.
Better luck next time if that's the way of things. If not, I'm sure he's in a better place. Or is waiting in sleep for the resurrection day.
I wonder who's right? Does it matter?
Okay, ready for chapter 18.
On the record, blame is on Timmy, and apologies in advance if applicable.
Location: New Paltz, NY
Registered: February 2014
Messages: 2
With a lot of time, I dug deeper into Travis Hachy Walters life. Some friends and fellow-students wrote on various sites. An NYU student said it was an accident at home according to the e-Mail they received from NYU. Another friend of his Aunt wrote of his penchant for crazy gymnastics stunts like walking up stairs on his hands. hmmm... But what struck me was that the tributes by people who truly knew him were far beyond the usual "great guy, gonna miss you". I managed to find an age 18 picture and he looked really good, his eyes so alive. In '08 he started college at Towson University, and was given a theatre scholarship. Another pic showed him in dressed in a micky-mouse tee-shirt, and a few other accoutrements that seemed, well tres-gay. That and the frosted hair.... Which means (to me) when he played Davy, in Davy and Stu, at just age 15, (released Valentines Day 2006).... he was a gay kid playing gay. I know a few people who died young, and they seemed always to be hitting all their high-points just before death. For Travis, traveling the world, jumping from Towson U to NYU, involved in a theatre group, winning in gymnastics at the state level in high school, doing well in college... that his theatre department at NYU held their own special funeral for him. I think he accomplished all he came here for. A lot of remarks about his loving kindness, gentleness, his "incredible energy", his great character and humor. I don't think a short life is always "better luck next time". Sometimes it's part of the plan for those who come here for others, or for a final reincarnation as some people believe. I stuck a bobby-pin into an electric socket at age 4, had an incredibly peaceful, beautiful experience, and then was rudely shoved right back into this world. I have been comforted by that experience for 51 years now. Thank you for writing about Travis Walters. I stumbled on the video on Valentines Day, exactly 8 years after its release, appropriately enough. Now I'm a gay short junkie. This film unlocked a piece of me that was frozen solid, sending me on a journey through many gay film shorts, some of incredible beauty, love, and pathos. It's a week later, and I've been exploring my own interiors, my own emotional landscape, seeing in so many ways how my own love was blocked. I think older gays like me who spent so much time in denial, have a lot of blocked love....... Rest in Peace, Travis H Walters, as your friend Michael wrote about you, "Thank you for being a neon in the grey."
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13772
The only pictures I can find with Google are of a lad with a rather more blank stare and haunted expression than a love of life would suggest. Do you have links to the pictures that show him as a vibrant lad? Those do his memory justice far better.
Location: the burning former USofA
Registered: July 2010
Messages: 399
Photos of him are rare, to say the least. He was very private, and I've only seen a very few. I've not spent much time looking though. I'm really glad he did this short. Without it, I would not have known he was gone already, and not have known what little I do now. He'll always be that pesky little brother, though, in my mind's eye. He would probably hate that, I'm nearly sure. He would probably rather be remembered for other things, but what can I do?
He surely touched my life in more than one way and at more than one time.
Location: New Paltz, NY
Registered: February 2014
Messages: 2
The funeral home maintains a memorial website. Travis Walters died 2 years ago today. This website has a few pictures. There's one tiny one in the website of him in a mickey-mouse tee-shirt dancing wildly. This photo is pretty awful but was from when he won a scholarship at Towson University. His mom is in her mid-60s, and his dad in his 80s. There was one tribute from a male friend, very sweet, how Travis kept him sane. Gay shorts have been around but still somewhat special as he was not even 15 when he played Davy, and there was something like a much older soul at work when he nailed the role. RIP on the two year anniversary of your death, Travis Walters.
Location: the burning former USofA
Registered: July 2010
Messages: 399
"Ya hear that ya mooks? I'm famous!"
Two years that he should have had. And many more to come.
Depressing, really.
Not only bright, not only talented, not only an inspiration to those around him, but adorable as well.
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13772
Putting two and two together and coming up with a random number, this bright lad might have become the victim of aggressive Multiple Sclerosis. His obit in the New York Times suggests it with the charity walk it (he?) supported.
I've only seen him in Davy and Stu. His acting in that short was the precise hestitancy the role required.
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13772
There is a memorial "book" that you may choose to sign. It is associated with his NYT obituary.
Of course, none of us knew him. But I felt as if I knew enough of him to sign the book. So I have. I suspect the family are alerted to new entries. I think they deserve to know how far this young man's reach has been.
) 1 Vote
] 
A Place of Safety
Search
Help
Register
Login
Home
