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Mangled news  [message #71962] Thu, 13 October 2016 12:16 Go to next message
timmy

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
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Even (especially?) The BBC fails with language:

Quote:
After school, he worked as an upholsterer's apprentice, singing as he stuffed old armchairs, and then a milkman


Ah well.



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Mangled news  [message #71963 is a reply to message #71962] Thu, 13 October 2016 13:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ivor slipper is currently offline  ivor slipper

Likes it here

Registered: September 2013
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Evidently the milkman wasn't Ernie  Wink
icon10.gif Re: Mangled news  [message #71965 is a reply to message #71962] Thu, 13 October 2016 17:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
William King is currently offline  William King

Toe is in the water

Registered: October 2016
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It brought tears to my eyes and probably to the poor milkman too! 
Re: Mangled news  [message #71975 is a reply to message #71962] Sun, 16 October 2016 05:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dgt224 is currently offline  dgt224

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"timmy wrote on Thu, 13 October 2016 08:16"
Even (especially?) The BBC fails with language:

"Quote:"
After school, he worked as an upholsterer's apprentice, singing as he stuffed old armchairs, and then a milkman





--
I think technically the BBC got it right - the last two commas make "singing as he stuffed old armchairs" a parenthetical expression, so that without mention of the singing it becomes "... he worked as an upholsterer's apprentice and then a milkman", although "then as a milkman" would certainly reduce the ambiguity. Without the last comma, on the other hand...
Re: Mangled news  [message #71976 is a reply to message #71975] Sun, 16 October 2016 08:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nick Deverill is currently offline  Nick Deverill

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Messages: 78



The commas around 'singing as he stuffed old armchairs' are what is technically known as bracketing commas. I think this is more commonly done with speech as who can pronounce a bracket? '(' I say, and ')' to you...

However, I know of no reason why the same device cannot be employed in any text. Not usually done, and liable to misinterpretation as here though.

Sorry Timmy
Re: Mangled news  [message #71977 is a reply to message #71976] Sun, 16 October 2016 13:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13739



The issue is not that the words are capable of being interpreted as the writer hopes. The issue is, rather, that they are capable of such easy misinterpretation. It would not have been hard to write a sentence that had no inherent gotchas in it. They chose not to. It needs the simple word "as" inserted, not in the milkman, but before "a milkman"



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
icon6.gif Re: Mangled news  [message #71978 is a reply to message #71962] Sun, 16 October 2016 17:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
William King is currently offline  William King

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Registered: October 2016
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Does the "after school" referred to mean these jobs were done before or after any homework when the school day was over or does it mean when his education finished and he no longer attended school?



Re: Mangled news  [message #71979 is a reply to message #71977] Sun, 16 October 2016 19:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nick Deverill is currently offline  Nick Deverill

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Registered: November 2012
Messages: 78



"Quote:"
timmy wrote on Sun, 16 October 2016 13:39The issue is not that the words are capable of being interpreted as the writer hopes. The issue is, rather, that they are capable of such easy misinterpretation. It would not have been hard to write a sentence that had no inherent gotchas in it. They chose not to. It needs the simple word "as" inserted, not in the milkman, but before "a milkman"

That is true, but you are missing the fact that most journalists will blow their own trumpet at the slightest provocation, and using fancy construction is just part of it.

[Updated on: Sun, 16 October 2016 19:56]

Re: Mangled news  [message #71986 is a reply to message #71979] Mon, 17 October 2016 06:48 Go to previous message
timmy

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13739



"Nick "

"Quote:"
timmy wrote on Sun, 16 October 2016 13:39The issue is not that the words are capable of being interpreted as the writer hopes. The issue is, rather, that they are capable of such easy misinterpretation. It would not have been hard to write a sentence that had no inherent gotchas in it. They chose not to. It needs the simple word "as" inserted, not in the milkman, but before "a milkman"

That is true, but you are missing the fact that most journalists will blow their own trumpet at the slightest provocation, and using fancy construction is just part of it.

--
And yet the simple solution retains the fancy construction and is easy to interpret correctly and hard to misinterpret.



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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