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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13828
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I suppose I should start by saying that nothing that I am about to say condones or justifies the abuse of children. I rather think that ought to be taken as read, but I don't want it to seem as if I am encouraging anything at all. Of course, at this point "Methinks he doth protest too much" comes into people's minds, so I'd have been better not to start with that.
Every so often the media tells us that it is no surprise that X abused children, because X was abused as a child. I've taken that as a definitive statement until I engaged my brain, and agreed with it. Now I wonder about it.
We know that hurting anyone is wrong. Thus we know that hurting a child is wrong, the more so since there is a huge imbalance of power when an adult hurts a child. That child cannot get away because it is weaker than the adult, and often depends on the adult for food and shelter, too. We can add to that the simple concept that forcing a child to do anything against its will is wrong. Obviously there is a point where we must disagree. Part of raising children is to stop them from doing things which will harm them. Sometimes we have to force that child to stop doing those things. We may also need to force the child to do things that are genuinely good for it. Cleaning teeth is one such thing. Not screaming the place down when it doesn't get its way is another, though that is also a grey area. Sometimes it's right that the child should scream the place down because it is being forced to do something wrong, and its way should prevail.
Already this is an imprecise discussion, and I haven't even approached the meat of it yet.
Society has set an age below which sexual activity is unlawful. It's a concept that is a decent idea in all senses of the word. We live in society and delegate the power to make such decisions to our elected representatives and they impose our delegated authority upon us. And children, as we know, are easy to force to do things because of the huge power difference between an adult and a child. There are arguments for a better interpretation of the age of consent, but let's leave it as it stands for the discussion. It is an absolute offence to engage in sexual activity of any sort by a person over the age with a person under the age. For the discussion we need to accept that.
Let me postulate a child, some random distance under the age of consent, and a person, male or female, some random distance over it. If those two people should enjoy some form of sexual activity in a mutually fulfilling manner and if neither is hurt, should we, as bystanders, judge that activity to be unlawful?
We do. We do far worse than that. We attempt to lynch the older person. Here in the UK we have just had an example of that. A teacher and his pupil went away together, for whatever purpose. He is being extradited from France to face charges of child abduction. The public has been braying for his head on a plate. That is just for going away with her. I'm sure we've decided that he is a paedophile, though that is a lousy interpretation of the true definition of the word. His alleged abductee is not a child except by legal definition of being both a minor and below the age of sexual consent for the activity we, the public, have presumed in our prurience, took place.
If it did take place, was she then abused? If the law says she was, will she go on to abuse younger people?
Ah, but she is a girl. Girls don't have penises, and thus the public feels they cannot abuse sexually. So, had she been Martin instead of Megan, would Martin, whom we suppose will have been abused, go on to abuse?
The answer is, of course, 'that he will'. The public knows this and says so. And this is because he both has a penis and was abused as a child, whether he enjoyed it or not, whether he was hurt or not, but because he is gay, and being gay is wrong in the minds of the public even f they are prevented here from discriminating against gauy people. The public still believes that it is possible to make boys gay. We should beware the power of stupid people in large groups
As a side issue, I often wonder if that is because anal sex is such great fun that using a vagina afterwards is literally an anticlimax. I will bet that any man will prefer sex with a man for recreation if no-one else were ever to discover it had happened! But back to the plot!
The plot is really a question or two. It was a long preamble, but, like foreplay, I wanted to get you into the mood.
"Quote:"If a child, of whatever age, has a fulfilling sexual experience with another person of whatever age, it is likely that this child will wish to share that with others. Is that abuse?
If that child continues to share that with others as it passes the age of consent, is that abuse?
So does the child who was abused, if you say it was abuse, continue the alleged cycle of abuse and abuse others?
And, if you say it is abuse, why do you say it is abuse? And does your argument hold true in all cases where the participants are willing and are unharmed?
We have at least one person who posts here who engaged in a relationship with an older person that he mistook for, was bamboozled into mistaking for, being loved by the other person. They crossed the age of consent divide. He discovered later in life that the relationship was one where the older used his greater experience of life to bamboozle him into being a sexual outlet instead of loving him and caring for him as he wished and hoped. Clearly that was an abusive relationship. But what if the older had loved him and cared for him and they had made a life together as true lovers, not the lustful and the lusted after and discarded?
And, had that relationship been one of equal partnership, if it had ended after half a dozen years, would that have been abuse?
We can say with clarity that our friend does not abuse others. He's an ordinary and decent bloke who sometimes goes the extra mile to help others.
Well, that was long. Parts rambled. "Too long, didn't read" may apply.
[Updated on: Sun, 07 October 2012 11:13]
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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The abused becomes the abuser... Fact or Political Correctness
By: timmy on Sun, 07 October 2012 08:05 |
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Re: The abused becomes the abuser... Fact or Political Correctness
By: Kitzyma on Sun, 07 October 2012 13:56 |
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Informed consent
By: timmy on Sun, 07 October 2012 15:49 |
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Re: Informed consent
By: Kitzyma on Sun, 07 October 2012 17:12 |
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Re: Informed consent
By: NW on Mon, 08 October 2012 11:18 |
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before puberty
By: timmy on Mon, 08 October 2012 11:40 |
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Re: Informed consent, abused becomes abuser, and my own experiences
By: NW on Mon, 08 October 2012 12:08 |
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Re: Informed consent, abused becomes abuser, and my own experiences
By: Kitzyma on Tue, 09 October 2012 08:22 |
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Re: Informed consent, abused becomes abuser, and my own experiences
By: Nigel on Tue, 09 October 2012 22:09 |
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Re: Informed consent, abused becomes abuser, and my own experiences
By: Kitzyma on Wed, 10 October 2012 08:58 |
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Re: Informed consent, abused becomes abuser, and my own experiences
By: Smokr on Fri, 12 October 2012 04:30 |
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Re: Informed consent, abused becomes abuser, and my own experiences
By: kiwi on Tue, 23 October 2012 02:20 |
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