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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
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I've just been told that we are not as good to authors as the Nifty Archive. If you know where I was told that, that's fine. I didn't want to make that a more protracted discussion than it was by adding this to it. Instead I thought you might like to know how this site is different. Then I thought it might be nicer for you to tell me how this site is different.
Are you up for that?
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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I'm not sure what you are looking for, but I'll attempt an answer.
The formatting on nifty is a pain in the butt to read.
Stories on iomfats have the feeling of the authors belonging to a club, as it were.
iomfats is selective, nifty is not.
Although there is in fact none, I feel as if there is a tacit contract between me the author and Timmy the publisher.
Hugs
Nigel
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
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You can put anything on Nifty, including a 'story' without any merit or readability whatsoever. Even absolute garbage that no one can make sense of.
Here, though, it not only has to be readable, and formatted in such a way as to be readable, it also has to be an actual 'story' with an understandable story or point.
Some of the 'stories' on Nifty are many hundreds of words, or more, and one paragraph long.
Here, you might not be as 'nice' to authors, but your readers and members appreciate that fact, and come here for it.
And of course, a huge difference, are these forums and the people on them.
raysstories.com
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Kitzyma
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Likes it here |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 215
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Nifty and this site both have important roles but perform different functions, and so it's inevitable that the way they work will be different. For example, one difference is that although there is a general 'Information' section on Nifty, it does not, and is not intended to, provide help or information to those who might be having problems with, or are maybe just curious about, aspects of their sexuality.
NIFTY
The name Archive is the clue to the importance of its main role - it functions as an archive. It exists not just as a service for readers but also as a place where writers can put their works even when they are so awful that no one will ever want to read them.
As an archive, it is a place to go and get what you want, there is no 'personality' to particularly like or dislike or to make you feel either welcome or unwelcome.
It is a totally unselective archive of everything that gets sent to it, with whatever is sent to them in whatever format it is sent. So no 'House Style' and sometimes one can't tell if a story is any good because layout makes it impossible to read.
There are some categorised sections, covering a wide range of gay and bisexual proclivities, but by the nature of categorisation, not all submissions fall easily within the categories.
Many readers go there for a one-handed read and aren't much interested in quality of plot.
Once a story is submitted it, it cannot be changed or edited, even for something as simple as when the wrong chapter number is on the story.
Stories are listed by date, and with 'busy' categories a story will rapidly be pushed down a page and maybe onto a different page. Though there is some listing of 'prolific authors', presumably readers tend to go for newer stories, because in my experience in busy categories it's very rare to get any feedback once the story is a few weeks old.
THIS SITE
This is a site with a personality that includes facilities for help and information as well as stories to read and enjoy. As with any distinctive personality, there will always be those who dislike it as well as those who like it.
Stories are selectied, giving some basic assurance of type and quality. If stories require more work before acceptance, there are volunteer editors who can help.
House Style gives consistent quality of layout. This makes it easier for the reader, though it may on rare occasions require a small compromise of total control by the author. Those who've submitted works for mainstream publishing will know that those publishers are much more strict regarding layout requirements.
More amenable to browsing, so possible to get feedback several months after a story is posted.
There are either no categories or only one category, depending on point of view.
Stories listed by author, so, for example, a new story can stimulate interest in older stories and generate responses to those older stories.
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My rather short response to the title is "thank goodness".
While there are some excellent works on Nifty, most of it is in varying degrees considerably less than excellent. Some are utter rubbish and trawling the lists for a good read is not straightforward since there is no indication of status and of how good a tale it might be. Quite a few of the good ones can often be found elsewhere and in a better house style too.
Most of the works here are a proper narrative with a very small sex content. This suits the reader who is looking for proper literary entertainment from a gay perspective. Also because there are standards, trawling the story shelf will generally be worthwhile.
As an author, I think the approach works. I've no intention to ever submit anything to Nifty.
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kiwi
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Likes it here |
Location: New Zealand
Registered: August 2009
Messages: 317
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I haven't a lot to add, except to say that i agree with what the others said, especially Nigel, and - i like it here!
cheers
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WASHINGTON
February 26, 2013
Dear Folks,
I have dealt with Tim, first as story web host as I had started [ and NO WARREN not completed but ONE day... *sigh* ] a story that I felt had merit and was my first foray into writing outside of my journalistic pursuits. Later, as I got to know Tim, I now count him as a dear friend of whom I am supremely jealous as he gets to enjoy retirement in one of those perfectly quaint storybook English villages by the sea.
In all regards, Tim has been an absolute pleasure to deal with and generally speaking the quality of the authors he's attracted to his corner of the internet seems to mirror his own personality and talents in decent well written 'story telling.'
Which brings me to Nifty.... Rubbish? Hmm, I'd say that's being kind. Nifty is good for quick wanking both on a penis level and mind level. While I don't disagree that there are jewels on that site to be sure, it takes damn near Herculean efforts to locate those by trolling through the heaps of massive rubbish and not even 4th rate materials which hardly classify or qualify as written prose of ANY variety.
That and the sight is well, it is what it is. For someone to even compare Tim;'s efforts to David, [The Nifty Archivist] is laughable. Personally? If I was an author who desired a credible readership and feedback, not to mention being part of a collection of good written prose, I'd be over the moon to have Tim offer a spot in his library.
So, to that person who whined..... Maybe I've been gone from my native Canada for too long, but in that quaint Yank way, "Don't let the door hit you on the arse on your way out."
Seriously? There's no comparison.
Brody
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
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We need to be very fair to David at Nifty. He does a very different job. It's a very different collection of stories, some of which are good quality. I regret that some of the stories he accepts show violence and abuse of minor children, something I was told by him once was against their code of acceptable topics, but things change. I do wonder about its charitable status, though, because of that.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Strictly from a readers point of view, the two sites are very different!
The great strength of Nifty is its non-selective nature. That means that people who have the potential to develop into strong and creative writers have somewhere to put early attempts at their craft, and receive comments and feedback. Those who I think have noticeably benefited from this include Joel, Drew Hunt, Tim Mead and Brew Maxwell - all now very highly regarded writers.
It can, of course, be a real struggle to sort the wheat from the chaff on this, and the lack of search function on Nifty (the prototype isn't terribly good) mean that it's not easy to keep track of decent writers once one has stumbled on them. There's one writer in particular who I find it impossible to keep decent track of, as he changes name, e-mail and even the sites he posts on etc rather often - Caleb Wilson, I mean you!
And, of course, there's a place for unabashed one-handed porn ... and tastes vary.
By contrast, this place has a restricted policy, and sets certain standards for the writing. Timmy has often facilitated writers and editors getting together, and this kind of development stuff is obviously helpful. There are FAR fewer stories that abruptly get abandoned, which is really good news.
Most of the writing here is happy ending stuff, and none the worse for that. Indeed, given the overall objectives of the site, it's probably good. I do, sometimes, yearn for a little more overall grittiness (as opposed to dramatic episodes) around the place, but of course I can always find that elsewhere.
For me, there's a big place for both sites (and for several others, all of which have their own characters).
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
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I think we just don't attract grit. I share your wish for more of that. I think one can have grit without harshness, if you follow me. By that I mean the quality of the writing, which probably has to be higher of the tale is darker. I don't turn gritty tales away. I like happy endings, but they are not always possible, not even in a true love kind of tale.
I like Nifty for precisely the reasons you've mentioned. I've met many of our new authors there and encouraged them to reach a different audience as well.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Kitzyma
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Likes it here |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 215
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I'm not totally sure I know what's meant by 'gritty'in this context.
Is is something like Smokr's two linked stories, 'Alex' and 'Trey'?
If not, could you point me at an example?
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
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To me those are like keeping guinea pigs. Each guinea seems to live in a permanent state of misunderstanding. When it bumps into a hutch-mate it and the other immediately panic and misunderstand. Those two tales show pathos. Grit, not so much.
In a gritty tale things aren't just sad, perhaps aren't sad at all. It shows things that go wrong and there's no cuddle to put them tight. Boy meets boy, boy adores boy, boy loses boy. That is either grit or tragedy. There is one coming here in a while that is gritty, set at the turn of the 1900s or thereabouts, but I don;t want to trail it yet.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
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Assuredly gritty. It achieves grit without pathos.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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... nor are you Marc's archive, nor The EggMan's, DaBeagle's, Driver's, Archer's, CryBoy's or a wealth of others that I could think of; nor should you be. It is sufficient that you be exactly what you are ... a room chock-filled-to-bursting with a mostly well-thumbed collection of the best of what the web has to offer youngsters and adults in digital literature.
A visitor to the Story Shelf will find little to offend them; but, rather a wealth of spirited stories which hopefully will educate and inspire them. That's not to say the hard-topics are not here; if I recall rightly (although I just went looking for it and can no-longer find it here) an extremely dark tale (and by your definition, definitely gritty, so dark and gritty in fact I could not read more than a page or two at a time) which dealt with the realm of BDSM in all it's unvarnished truth and under-age obsession. The title escapes me just now; but, what does not is how brilliantly it was written and how right you were in the midst of considerable controversy at the time to host it. Like all your featured works this was a story that needed to be told, and told with forthrightness, acumen, perspicacity and audacity. It would have been lost (and in all likelihood probability is) in the vastness that is Nifty (categorized or otherwise) and not given the widespread reach that it truly deserves.
The aforementioned holds true of all the stories you host; each and everyone of them, lovingly crafted by their respective authors should be a cherished addition to any home library.
It I were to find any fault at all with the hosted collection at the Story Shelf it would the omission of key-word indexing of the library's contents and the ability to filter those contents by subject.
Warren C. E. Austin
The Gay Deceiver
Toronto, Canada
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Kitzyma
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Likes it here |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 215
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"Smokr wrote on Fri, 01 March 2013 06:44"
Gritty, though not a perfect example...
http://www.smokr.net/raysstories/Shorts/beingthewrongcolor.p hp
--
Thanks.
Definitely gritty, but with an almost happy ending.
As an eye-for-an-eye person, for me the ending would have been even happier if the punishment had been the same as the crime.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
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You speak of this one, I think. Jack has vanished, perhaps died, but the story is strong and uncompromising. The companion story in the series I will not host. I read it. I found it to be technically excellent. I found the story acceptable, but not for this site.
Is it gritty, though?
I host it for a reason. Those who read it will either understand the reason or miss it and feel t to be here for salacious reasons. To me ot is an important story. Publishing it cost me a friendship. Obviously it wasn't that good a friendship
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Kitzyma
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Likes it here |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 215
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As this discussion proceeds, I think I'm beginning to get a better understanding of gritty. Of course, a better understanding doesn't always equate to a more accurate understanding.
My dictionary defines it as 'tough and uncompromising'. Now, in a story I think that refers not so much to the subject matter but to the head-on way it's tackled. For that reason, I'm not sure that the linked story by Jack is particularly gritty. On the other hand, there are no doubt different degrees of grittiness, and maybe to some extent the degree of grittiness is in the eyes of the beholder. 
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
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I think I like the way you've expressed it, though I don't want sore eyes! Warren and you, for example, each have a different view on grittiness. I wonder if there is an absolute definition?
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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